Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #116

[tresir2012]

The murder occurred on February 13, 2017--two years and 10 months ago. Liberty German videotaped the murderer walking across the bridge, and may have even recorded the murder itself. There have been thousands of tips, but no arrests.
6 months ago in an uncomfortable news conference that seemed overly emotional and even IMO unprofessional, with references to a movie (The Shack), and announcements of a new investigative strategy, directed at the murderer apparently, LEO issued a new sketch which looks nothing like the guy Libby videotaped on the bridge.

Still no arrest since that time. Given the length of time since the murders, and the confusion about the two sketches, to me it unfortunately seems this case is heading towards cold case status, with little chance of LEO arresting anyone and little chance of justice for Libby and Abby. Does anyone else hold that view, or do you feel LEO will eventually find and arrest the murderer?

I think they know who it is and are building a case. Maybe overly optimistic but absence of further appeals leads me to think this. MOO.

 

[Boxer]

Has anybody compiled a list of Delphi area high school athletes (basketball/football/track) who went on to play for a major or semi-major college programs...HS graduation dates 2015 to present? This is a very serious question.

MOO, is that some of our perp(s) or witness(es) might be found there. If it was me who was "just starting" after releasing that second sketch of a younger fellow....that's where I would be starting.

I suggest that some of our best board sleuths take a try at that, if they have not already.

High school year books are on line and available for Delphi Community HS.
MOO I feel the answer is there also.
I feel it is a young persons crime, like tagging or shoplifting, where boldness and randomness benefit the assailant.

 

[pixiepixel]

I think they know who it is and are building a case. Maybe overly optimistic but absence of further appeals leads me to think this. MOO.

We know so little about the case that it's hard to tell. From day one, people have speculated that the existence of Libby's video would make this an open and shut case. But we don't know what's on that video, how much useable footage exists...the single grainy image we have of BG leads me to believe the video was a lot less damning than one might expect.

But one thing I'm absolutely certain about is this: ISP and the DA will work themselves to the bone building an iron-clad case against BG once they've found him. For both the girls' families and for the authorities, an arrest that leads to acquittal would be worse than no arrest at all. So I do think they will take their time.

I'm hopeful we will get some sort of update on the three-year anniversary in February.

 

[pixiepixel]

High school year books are on line and available for Delphi Community HS.
MOO I feel the answer is there also.
I feel it is a young persons crime, like tagging or shoplifting, where boldness and randomness benefit the assailant.

Very interesting. HS students would've had the day off from school as well, no? I was leaning towards BG being a drifter/unemployed simply because anyone who took off of work that day would immediately be on ISP's radar. If they're a high schooler, maybe the same situation - no school that day, so no reason they weren't where they should have been.

Although IMO anyone high-school aged would've been tech savvy enough to confiscate Abby and Libby's phones ASAP.

 

[Boxer]

Very interesting. HS students would've had the day off from school as well, no? I was leaning towards BG being a drifter/unemployed simply because anyone who took off of work that day would immediately be on ISP's radar. If they're a high schooler, maybe the same situation - no school that day, so no reason they weren't where they should have been.

Although IMO anyone high-school aged would've been tech savvy enough to confiscate Abby and Libby's phones ASAP.

Maybe. Depends if he saw it. Maybe he did not see the phone if Libby was disguising her movement in the sweep that captured him.

Later he might have been loath to take the phone due to forensic tracking. MOO doing nothing about the phone seems in line with the rest of the crime, he let luck, speed and surprise cover him.

 

[JnRyan]

If BG is a young man, perhaps Val Day then looming did have significance.

Maybe NBG and 1 girl made plans to meet to talk. 2nd girl was unexpected. Talking did not go well. NBG lashed out. Then had to cover up the damage, killing both.

When I was awkward age 15 I went for a walk planning to break up with my first serious boyfriend. Guess what. He wanted one more roll in the hay! No way!! Didn't happen. But boys can be very persistent.

Maybe Val Day played a part. Just sayin.

Some of us on here thought that Valentine's Day might have been a trigger for this killer's actions and that came up early on. But I had forgotten about it till now because this is the first time I've seen it in the discussion in quite a while. Now I'm wondering again what part it might have played.

 

[Falling Down]

Maybe. Depends if he saw it. Maybe he did not see the phone if Libby was disguising her movement in the sweep that captured him.

Later he might have been loath to take the phone due to forensic tracking. MOO doing nothing about the phone seems in line with the rest of the crime, he let luck, speed and surprise cover him.

I agree about the phone angle, smart that he didn't grab it. He could have been tracked.

JMO

 

[Boxer]

Some of us on here thought that Valentine's Day might have been a trigger for this killer's actions and that came up early on. But I had forgotten about it till now because this is the first time I've seen it in the discussion in quite a while. Now I'm wondering again what part it might have played.

MOO I agree abkut the Valentine Day connection - I think one way or another it is a part of this crime.
It fits in with the necessary "victim" ideation that gets going, motivating a person to feel they entitled to hurt others.

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

Very interesting. HS students would've had the day off from school as well, no? I was leaning towards BG being a drifter/unemployed simply because anyone who took off of work that day would immediately be on ISP's radar. If they're a high schooler, maybe the same situation - no school that day, so no reason they weren't where they should have been.

Although IMO anyone high-school aged would've been tech savvy enough to confiscate Abby and Libby's phones ASAP.

You would think he would be tech savvy enough to realize he needed to get rid of any phones. But, theoretically, if we are talking about a young person this is likely their first (major) crime. Perhaps in the moment, especially if the crime was committed out of blind rage, he wasn’t thinking clearly enough to grab the phone(s). I have heard talks, however, about the crime scene being staged by the murderer after the act. If there is any weight to that claim, I think that pretty much negates any theory that the murderer left the scene quickly.

I haven’t checked these discussions in a while, and I’ve been trying to catch up. It’s disheartening to say the least that we have nothing new to go on.

 

[Boxer]

You would think he would be tech savvy enough to realize he needed to get rid of any phones. But, theoretically, if we are talking about a young person this is likely their first (major) crime. Perhaps in the moment, especially if the crime was committed out of blind rage, he wasn’t thinking clearly enough to grab the phone(s). I have heard talks, however, about the crime scene being staged by the murderer after the act. If there is any weight to that claim, I think that pretty much negates any theory that the murderer left the scene quickly.

I haven’t checked these discussions in a while, and I’ve been trying to catch up. It’s disheartening to say the least that we have nothing new to go on.

MOO Taking a phone is like carrying a tracer. Most young people know this.
If he did not know he was filmed or recorded by Libby, he had no reason the mess with the phone, moo he would just leave it.

Although I think he turned it off after letting DG's call ring until it went to voicemail.
Also I would assume that DG's call is actually the prompt for when he left the scene.

 

[Fizzle]

MOO Taking a phone is like carrying a tracer. Most young people know this.
If he did not know he was filmed or recorded by Libby, he had no reason the mess with the phone, moo he would just leave it.

Although I think he turned it off after letting DG's call ring until it went to voicemail.
Also I would assume that DG's call is actually the prompt for when he left the scene.

I'm not convinced that any of them had the phone past those moments that we've already heard. I think she dropped it or he tossed it. I agree that he would not want to be traced. LE has said that they had the phone and that it was at the crime scene or near the girls or something like that, but IIRC LE hesitated for a moment before answering that question. I believe that the bridge and the creek would also be considered the crime scene.

 

[soylattesandsleuthing]

MOO Taking a phone is like carrying a tracer. Most young people know this.
If he did not know he was filmed or recorded by Libby, he had no reason the mess with the phone, moo he would just leave it.

Although I think he turned it off after letting DG's call ring until it went to voicemail.
Also I would assume that DG's call is actually the prompt for when he left the scene.

True. But you would think he would have just thrown it in the creek at least. If he did turn the phone off, it’s weird he then just left it at the scene.

 

[Fizzle]

True. But you would think he would have just thrown it in the creek at least. If he did turn the phone off, it’s weird he then just left it at the scene.

Agreed. I don't think he would have handled it other than to toss it.

 

[MJPeony]

MOO Taking a phone is like carrying a tracer. Most young people know this.
If he did not know he was filmed or recorded by Libby, he had no reason the mess with the phone, moo he would just leave it.

Although I think he turned it off after letting DG's call ring until it went to voicemail.
Also I would assume that DG's call is actually the prompt for when he left the scene.

I agree 100% with everything you say here. My thoughts exactly.

 

[MJPeony]

True. But you would think he would have just thrown it in the creek at least. If he did turn the phone off, it’s weird he then just left it at the scene.

Didn’t have time. Needed to get out of dodge ASAP. (MOO)

 

[puppyraiser]

Daniel Nations was brought to the attention of local LE (Delphi) for a reason. Was that reason his vehicle or because he was known to have a hatchet? If we suspect it was because of a hatchet then we need to consider the fact that a bladed weapon of some type was used. Who walks around with a blade, generally on them most of the time? Hunters, Boy Scouts, outdoors type people, gang members, drug dealers... not the average teen or guy out for a stroll or hook up in a public park/forest. Also, who from that above group would be able to walk confidently and safely on that bridge? Certainly not drug users or severe alcoholics. IF we are looking at a rage killing, and if he didn't premeditate it (meet up gone bad?), he still had to have been carrying a weapon on him. Do any of our "name not to be mentioned because MSM hasn't named any POI'S" fit in any one of the above noted types? My POI fits the hunter type-he carries a gun on his right side and has a hunting knife. I mentioned a gun because many people believe there is an outline of a gun on BG's right hand side. A YouTuber's POI(s) fits the Boy Scout/Leader type.

If DN was brought to local LE's attention because of the car, then forget a bladed weapon and start looking for maroon coloured vehicles.

 

[FrostedGlass]

If you listen to the Renner interview with Abby's mom, she talks about being allowed to listen to some audio Libby's phone recorded. Abby said something to which Libby responded, (paraphrasing) we can't go on ahead, the trail ends right there. That sounds like that at the very least Abby was made very uncomfortable by the approaching BG. Those girls didn't go down that hill with BG willing, it was an abduction. JMO

That comment about the trail ending has me puzzled. If they were at the SE end of the bridge, they could have followed the rr bed 500 feet to the farm/house. Here's a screen cap of the SE end from one of GH's vids taken while the crime scene tape was still up.

 

[pixiepixel]

True. But you would think he would have just thrown it in the creek at least. If he did turn the phone off, it’s weird he then just left it at the scene.

Agreed. Most criminals of any age know about cell phone pings, etc. and wouldn't be dumb enough to take the phones with them. But, I think anyone around high school age would be smart enough to tell both the girls to take out their phones and drop them off the bridge or something like that - whether or not they knew Libby was recording.

On the other hand, an older person - even someone as young as their 30s - may not assume that these two pre-teen girls both had smart phones on them. Back when flip phones were a thing, I didn't get one until I was sixteen, and it still blows my mind when I see middle-schoolers with iPhones...that sort of thinking, y'know?

But, as you said earlier, none of that matters if this was an impulsive and hurried crime and BG wasn't thinking clearly.

 

[margarita25]

My “opinion” and “speculation” and “guess” about BG is that he is older, not big on cell phones or SM, and likely not tech savvy other than in the area of viewing dark things online, perhaps dark web, moo.

 

[pixiepixel]

I'm not convinced that any of them had the phone past those moments that we've already heard. I think she dropped it or he tossed it. I agree that he would not want to be traced. LE has said that they had the phone and that it was at the crime scene or near the girls or something like that, but IIRC LE hesitated for a moment before answering that question. I believe that the bridge and the creek would also be considered the crime scene.

So, your comment prompted me to do a bit of brief googling about the recording. Before, I was under the impression that LE had a substantial chunk of audio/video recovered from Libby's phone. Something like 20-30 minutes' worth. No clue where I got that impression.

Then I found this quote from an article written in August 2017:

“[the recording] does not appear to be anything more than some discussion between the girls. We have only released a portion of it. There are some others we think could help us but again protecting the integrity of the investigation is key so we cannot release everything because there are certain people that know the details and if we release it all then we get into false confessions,” said Sgt. Holeman.
​

We also know from this article (also from 2017) that the girls mentioned BG or "the man behind them" in the recording.

MOO but I think the recording is not as damning as everyone hopes. Lots of people believe the murder itself was recorded but I doubt it. From Holeman's statement above, it sounds like it's mostly the girls chatting, a mention or two of BG, and other stuff that "could help" i.e. clips like "down the hill". I think Libby put her phone away quickly as soon as BG came too close for comfort, and the rest of the recording is muffled and hard to decipher. And/or like you said, BG confiscated the phone and left it on the bridge.

LE has never confirmed/denied whether "guys" and "down the hill" were spliced together or sequential in the original recording. The change in tone of voice makes me think it was spliced. So it's possible that those four words are the only clips LE has been able to decipher so far. I still don't understand why LE released the "guys" audio at the presser back in April. Perhaps just to frighten BG by being able to say they're releasing new audio? Perhaps because they're running the audio through filters piece-by-piece to make it hearable, and "guys" was the latest result? Who knows.