Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #49

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To add to the layers, which when put together strengthened the alibi, was a school document provided by Angela Eschler whose Child was also receiving an award on Sept 12th. The document listed all children receiving an award at that assembly and included the name of the child in the Spedding’s care.

That makes sense. I’ve always though it would be relatively easy to find out if a child was given a school award on a particular date.
 
That’s what I don’t get. How can anyone “explain” that he is “likely not innocent” when all charges against him have been dismissed, at an unusually early stage in the prosecution case, with an even more unusual award of costs against the Crown, and he is no longer a Suspect/POI in the WT case.
Most people who've been raped or abused as a child by a family member know the legal process is ineffective in such matters. So it's not particularly persuasive of someone's innocence that a case against him was dismissed. (IMO.)

Cleaver, do you know why we can't find a judgement on the dismissed case against Spedding? Would there be no recorded judgement when it's dismissed at such an early stage, or has it been withheld from public posting, or is it there and we can't find it because the names are changed?
 
Most people who've been raped or abused as a child by a family member know the legal process is ineffective in such matters. So it's not particularly persuasive of someone's innocence that a case against him was dismissed. (IMO.)

Cleaver, do you know why we can't find a judgement on the dismissed case against Spedding? Would there be no recorded judgement when it's dismissed at such an early stage, or has it been withheld from public posting, or is it there and we can't find it because the names are changed?

Judgments are only published if there is a written judgment with a finding of guilt or acquittal. There aren’t judgments on jury trials. In a No-case, the usual practice is for the judge to DIRECT the jury to return a not guilty verdict because the judge has formed the view that “no reasonable jury, properly instructed” could return a guilty verdict. So in effect, it’s a not guilty verdict.
 
Judgments are only published if there is a written judgment with a finding of guilt or acquittal. There aren’t judgments on jury trials. In a No-case, the usual practice is for the judge to DIRECT the jury to return a not guilty verdict because the judge has formed the view that “no reasonable jury, properly instructed” could return a guilty verdict. So in effect, it’s a not guilty verdict.
Was it a jury trial because i wasn't sure if it was that or a bench trial in this case?
I gather from what you're saying it was a jury trial?
Does the court in this instance still hear state's evidence against the defendant?
 
Was it a jury trial because i wasn't sure if it was that or a bench trial in this case?
I gather from what you're saying it was a jury trial?
Does the court in this instance still hear state's evidence against the defendant?

I thought I’d read that it was a jury trial, but I may be mistaken. If it was a judge alone trial, there would be a judgment somewhere, although it could have been suppressed for any number of reasons.

Prosecution presents its case and defence cross examines those witnesses. The No Case submission is after the close of the prosecution case. If successful, the defendant doesn’t need to present a case.

Interestingly, the High Court recently ruled that Prasad directions were no longer allowed because they usurped the role of the jury.
 
I thought I’d read that it was a jury trial, but I may be mistaken. If it was a judge alone trial, there would be a judgment somewhere, although it could have been suppressed for any number of reasons.

Prosecution presents its case and defence cross examines those witnesses. The No Case submission is after the close of the prosecution case. If successful, the defendant doesn’t need to present a case.

Interestingly, the High Court recently ruled that Prasad directions were no longer allowed because they usurped the role of the jury.
From what I read of Prasad directions, they are invitations rather than instructions to the jury to acquit? Are you implying that if a Prasad direction is a usurpation of the role of jury, then a "no case to answer" dismissal is even more of a usurpation?
 
I thought I’d read that it was a jury trial, but I may be mistaken. If it was a judge alone trial, there would be a judgment somewhere, although it could have been suppressed for any number of reasons.

Prosecution presents its case and defence cross examines those witnesses. The No Case submission is after the close of the prosecution case. If successful, the defendant doesn’t need to present a case.

Interestingly, the High Court recently ruled that Prasad directions were no longer allowed because they usurped the role of the jury.
Thanks for your reply & clarification of how the legal process works. Yeah i can't ever remember reading in MSM about jury selection for this particular Trial?
And yes it might have been suppressed as well.
The Prasard direction is interesting and never heard of it before.
 
To add to the layers, which when put together strengthened the alibi, was a school document provided by Angela Eschler whose Child was also receiving an award on Sept 12th. The document listed all children receiving an award at that assembly and included the name of the child in the Spedding’s care.

The link from Lia Harris's twitter account won't load for some unknown reason, but if needed it is in her tweets of 21/8/19.

I am not disputing that the child got an award on 12th September ... I have seen that myself. What I am questioning is if the child got an award at any other assembly. None of us know that because it has not been published anywhere. imo

Spedding's footy mate can't remember which assembly he saw Spedding at ... just that it was one where the grandchild got an award.
If the grandchild's school is anything like my daughter's primary school - most children get awards of one type or another, often more than once or twice, to encourage ongoing good performance.
 
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I am not disputing that the child got an award on 12th September ... I have seen that myself. What I am questioning is if the child got an award at any other assembly. None of us know that because it has not been published anywhere. imo
Well lets hope police at least knew, because it was their job to do so if they are going to accuse someone of a crime. It would certainly be in their best interests to see if alibis checked out or not i would think.
 
I am not disputing that the child got an award on 12th September ... I have seen that myself. What I am questioning is if the child got an award at any other assembly. None of us know that because it has not been published anywhere. imo

Spedding's footy mate can't remember which assembly he saw Spedding at ... just that it was one where the grandchild got an award.
If the grandchild's school is anything like my daughter's primary school - most children get awards of one type or another, often more than once or twice, to encourage ongoing good performance.

SA, the grandchildren had received many awards , this was mentioned at the inquest & I think this was mentioned in the video interview that Jubes did with MS ?
 
It doesn't matter how many awards were given at the school to various children. There was only one day in question, and that was the morning WT went missing.
On that particular morning, only one g/child (pseudonym) Ben was receiving an award, to which the Speddings attended. And where the friend remembered he had high fived the child and saw BS.
How many other awards did Ben get prior to that day? What was the frequency of awards presented at the school to children, weekly?, mnthly?, yearly?
Don't the children get to keep those awards? With a date on them as to when they are presented to a child?
 
It doesn't matter how many awards were given at the school to various children. There was only one day in question, and that was the morning WT went missing.
On that particular morning, only one g/child (pseudonym) Ben was receiving an award, to which the Speddings attended. And where the friend remembered he had high fived the child and saw BS.
How many other awards did Ben get prior to that day? What was the frequency of awards presented at the school to children, weekly?, mnthly?, yearly?
Don't the children get to keep those awards? With a date on them as to when they are presented to a child?
And so far we have no-one who can definitely say they were there. Even BS & MS are confused about it and seating etc. IMO.
 
It doesn't matter how many awards were given at the school to various children. There was only one day in question, and that was the morning WT went missing.
On that particular morning, only one g/child (pseudonym) Ben was receiving an award, to which the Speddings attended. And where the friend remembered he had high fived the child and saw BS.
How many other awards did Ben get prior to that day? What was the frequency of awards presented at the school to children, weekly?, mnthly?, yearly?
Don't the children get to keep those awards? With a date on them as to when they are presented to a child?
at the inquest the friend said he THINKS it was that day not that he DID
 
And so far we have no-one who can definitely say they were there. Even BS & MS are confused about it and seating etc. IMO.
Yeah because police didn't investigate their alibi until months later when memories were faded, as per their lawyer.
Why didn't they just ask the child how many awards he received that year until Sept.? Maybe it was the only one he got, and he possibly i would think in that case remember that his grandparents were there? It would of been a big moment for him and proud of his achievement.
And what happens if a person is not guilty of a crime but has no alibi?
An alibi is not the be all and end all if a case goes to Trial, and the jury will determine usually what weight to give the matter. There would certainly have to be other evidence to convict with, or a jury won't feel confident in returning a guilty verdict. All IMO.
 
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