Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #116

[stattlich1]

You are correct. LE does have possession of Libby’s phone. (Libby had an iPhone 6/6s.)
LE stated it was found “near the girls”.
ISP: More audio recovered from slain Delphi teen's phone

So that article says the phone was "found with the girls at the crime scene." It does not say in the creek, however it may have been.

My spidey senses are pegging the redline on this case. Somethin' ain't right, somebody, who is least expected, is in on it.

Too many what if's. Seriously!

10 or 20 teens were there? Oh really.
2 girls abducted, kidnapped, marched down a hill, through the woods, across a creek, and nary a peep?
Several witnesses saw BG on the bridge/trail that day.
Called off the search that evening.....Oh really!
One BG/perp sketch for 2 years, then a different one?
We believe the killer is from Delphi?
We have likely interviewed him, or someone he knows?
We believe he may be IN THIS ROOM.
We have this video AND a voice recording AND DNA from the scene.
We state the NBG sketch IS the guy seen on the bridge in that video.
The voice recording IS the guy on the bridge.
We need one more tip to seal this thing.

Lordy, I was born at night, but not last night.

I smell a nasty rat.

My opinions only, save the factual items posted.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

Right, but they still could have retrieved it from the creek. I know they used a special agency to retrieve data from the phone.

Not saying that isn’t a possibility. There were searchers wading through the creek. MOO

 

[sunshineray]

This case is eerily similar to the murders of Lyric Cook-Morrissey and Elizabeth Collins in 2012 in Evansdale, Iowa. Two young girls who disappeared while out in the open (riding their bikes), during the daytime; were later found murdered, and the suspect more than likely did not know them personally. As Michael Whelan points out, between 1974 and 2012, the FBI logged only 15 cases similar to Evansdale and Delphi - random perp, two victims taken at once, middle of the day.

But as striking as those similarities are, surely this can't be the same guy. Picking "double-abduction of random targets in plain sight" as your MO is beyond stupid.

That piece that you linked was very well written and really makes a good agrument for Libby and Abby knowing of or actual previous communicating in some way with their killer.

"You see, the double murder of two children at the same time is a rare offense for even violent crime standards. The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children - commonly abbreviated as NCMEC - states that abductions of random children are already rare. Most of these offenses take place over the internet, and are arranged ahead of time by the culprits. But the actual snatching of children off of the streets is incredibly rare. Two children being abducted at once - in the middle of the day - is even more rare. It happens in a very small fraction of disappearances, with most cases involving a family member or family friend of some kind."

 

[Krwiley60]

DBM

 

[rypj84]

I'm beginning to wonder if someone the girls both knew, moreso Libby, was confiding in her about abuse, be it sexual and/or physical, which is why then she factory reset her phone? Maybe the victim found out that the abuser was aware of the conversations and told Libby but it was too little too late? Then the "meet up" was supposed to be a confrontation to find out how much of the beans had been spilled about the abuse? Maybe potential friend is covering for a parent or uncle out of fear? Amateur speculation. Moo.

 

[Ravenmoon]

Interesting as I'm on android, never had an iPhone. If you reset an iPhone do you then lose all that data saved to the iCloud?

Yes, unless you back up the data on icloud or itunes.

 

[stattlich1]

At the April presser....

-directly to the killer, who may be IN THIS ROOM
-we believe you were hiding IN PLAIN SIGHT
-we KNOW this is about power to you
-We are confident that you have told someone what you have done, or at the very least they know because of how different you are since the murders

Ponder these statements, I know I have.

What could possibly drive LE to speak directly to a killer they suspect may be in the very room in which they are holding a public press conference?

If BG, who is now definitively said to be the NBG sketch guy, was hiding in plain sight, how would, how COULD they know this? How would he NOT be singled out at a press conference in which he was supposedly attending? Has he changed his appearance such that LE, reporters, and the general public could not tell?

Just why would it be about POWER to the killer? Some may surmise that is a profiler's suspicion, could it be something different in this case? What kind of power? Power over LE? Ouch!

How could LE be confident that BG is different since the murders? Another profiler's suspicion, or based on observed fact?

ah, I have adopted the MOO

 

[Charlot123]

I'm beginning to wonder if someone the girls both knew, moreso Libby, was confiding in her about abuse, be it sexual and/or physical, which is why then she factory reset her phone? Maybe the victim found out that the abuser was aware of the conversations and told Libby but it was too little too late? Then the "meet up" was supposed to be a confrontation to find out how much of the beans had been spilled about the abuse? Maybe potential friend is covering for a parent or uncle out of fear? Amateur speculation. Moo.

Several times I have read that one of the girls could have escaped but chose not to. And that Libby suffered more. That would be illogical if Libby was the keeper of someone’s secret, as it was obvious that her best friend would be privy to the secret. (Unless Abby was the victim).

But I am wondering, maybe, Libby dated someone for a short time? Someone popular, slightly older. Most teenage girls have crushes on popular, older, kids, and “bad boys”, at this. It is age-appropriate. The understanding that one would be better off with a loyal person comes later.

I think that person didn’t take it seriously, and Libby might have threatened him. I think the age difference and his fear as he was trying to invest towards a successful future might have played a role.

Was he the BG? Or was the BG “an obliging fool”, a friend who brought the girls “down the hill, for a talk”? I don’t know. I wonder if it did not mean to end the way it did, but the dudes were high (maybe bought something from the meth-heads near the bridge) and it contributed to the cruelty and bizarreness of the murders.

Anyhow, not the girls’ fault, any of these, the fault lies with the people who by covering it are encouraging the crime.

And somewhere, there lives a person who could do it. In Delphi, or goes to college. If not stopped, he might become a lawyer, a doctor, a politician, a priest, a scientist. He can work with people. Get married, have own daughters.

It is dangerous.

ETA: Libby might have said or texted something that she did not mean, or did not want people to know, and hence, reset her phone. I mean, she was a teenager, and she might have been in love.

MOO. Likewise - I think it was about FEAR for the killer.

 

[Falling Down]

At the April presser....

-directly to the killer, who may be IN THIS ROOM
-we believe you were hiding IN PLAIN SIGHT
-we KNOW this is about power to you
-We are confident that you have told someone what you have done, or at the very least they know because of how different you are since the murders

Ponder these statements, I know I have.

What could possibly drive LE to speak directly to a killer they suspect may be in the very room in which they are holding a public press conference?

If BG, who is now definitively said to be the NBG sketch guy, was hiding in plain sight, how would, how COULD they know this? How would he NOT be singled out at a press conference in which he was supposedly attending? Has he changed his appearance such that LE, reporters, and the general public could not tell?

Just why would it be about POWER to the killer? Some may surmise that is a profiler's suspicion, could it be something different in this case? What kind of power? Power over LE? Ouch!

How could LE be confident that BG is different since the murders? Another profiler's suspicion, or based on observed fact?

ah, I have adopted the MOO

I think the perp follows the case very closely, and gets off on the notoriety, which is part of the "power" angle, in my book. I also believe he has been in contact with LE, which may include:

1. Contact, including either direct communication or a ruse of some sort to throw the investigation in a certain direction. Could be tips where he used a false identity or maybe he was anonymous.

2. Taunting LE. This happened in the April Tinsley case here in Fort Wayne, and many other cases over the last how many years. Could be he has contacted LE and pointed out their mistakes, chided them, etc.

-we KNOW this is about power to you
-We are confident that you have told someone what you have done, or at the very least they know because of how different you are since the murders

I'm 100% convinced someone or some people know the identity of BG, now if LE knows is anyone's guess. I agree with others here about possible alibis, people covering for him, etc. Very well could be people are covering for BG or are in denial.

LE have to be very careful, they have to be very by-the-book when going about bringing someone to justice on what may be little actual evidence in this case.

JMO

 

[zoricaj1]

could someone in LE who is involved in some way be hindering this case?

 

[Trino]

Haven't posted in ages... guess this happens to all of us.
My recent thoughts are centered on the photos, albeit this is an old thing. I just cannot get my head around this being a younger man. I'm convinced BG is older.

Younger criminals tend to plan before and during, maybe a short escape but usually not long term. This was well-planned, especially the aftermath. No problem keeping secrets, just going on with life as usual. Just think a younger person would not have been able to keep the facade for so long either.

 

[Trebor5591]

I reckon he didn't take it because he couldn't find it and didn't have time to hang about and search for it. LG either dropped it, Threw it or hid it. Just thinking aloud. MingMoo

Agree

 

[somequestions]

I agree. Douglas plays the percentages, but he isn't always right--depending on how you look at it. The perp may have been fantasizing about doing something like this for a long time, which would mean that he didn't just "wake up one day and commit a double homicide," but he may not have murdered anyone before.
Was Douglas permitted to see the crime scene photos? Any profiler worth his salt will tell you that it's well nigh impossible to develop an accurate profile without viewing the crime scene or photos of it.

John Douglas, FBI profiler, quote from the video is his opinion. Maybe I misinterpreted what he said. There is no evidence to suggest the murder of Abigail Williams and Liberty German was not the killer's first murders, only that I think it is rarer.

I think we are all profilers in this case. I look at it from the perspective after over 2 1/2 years that in a small town of 3,000 people, someone would have recognized this offender from either the video or the sketch. He knew the Monon High Bridge somehow but that could be because he works/worked in Delphi, Indiana.

We do not know what LE knows. I think LE was overzealous in wanting to solve this case. But as time passes I think it is going to be harder to believe that this case will be solved with the information LE currently has or that the investigation is on the right path.

 

[Trebor5591]

Am I the only one here who still believes LE has no idea who BG is? ... considering that strange, strange, April press conference...

I don't think they have a clue who BG is. If they did, they would have arrested him already. If they didn't have an airtight case, they would obtain a confession via interrogation. They would not sit around for nearly 3 years and not arrest the perpetrator if they had an inkling who he was.

And I agree, the April press conference was pretty strange.

 

[Imvp2]

I've talked to my kids and their friends about this crime since it happened. Two of my kids are close in age to the girls and have played softball a number of times in the area, before and after the crime.

They have always said one would not leave the other in such a case and would try to fight it out or both run.
I asked about videoing the bridge guy, they've always said they would have too if they thought he was "weird".
I asked why not call 911? They all agreed no one could get there that fast if they did and what if they were wrong about the person?
Recently I asked about resetting their phones, specifically what would cause them to do it now or then. A few mentioned viruses slowing down the phone or taking up memory would cause them to do that. But they all agreed they would back the phone pics up to the cloud and or desktop.

just their points of view I find interesting as MOO

 

[K.jill]

At the April presser....

-directly to the killer, who may be IN THIS ROOM
-we believe you were hiding IN PLAIN SIGHT
-we KNOW this is about power to you
-We are confident that you have told someone what you have done, or at the very least they know because of how different you are since the murders

Ponder these statements, I know I have.

What could possibly drive LE to speak directly to a killer they suspect may be in the very room in which they are holding a public press conference?

If BG, who is now definitively said to be the NBG sketch guy, was hiding in plain sight, how would, how COULD they know this? How would he NOT be singled out at a press conference in which he was supposedly attending? Has he changed his appearance such that LE, reporters, and the general public could not tell?

Just why would it be about POWER to the killer? Some may surmise that is a profiler's suspicion, could it be something different in this case? What kind of power? Power over LE? Ouch!

How could LE be confident that BG is different since the murders? Another profiler's suspicion, or based on observed fact?

ah, I have adopted the MOO

If LE thinks BG is “different” since the murders, what can that possibly mean?
Kelsi had an interesting response, in a podcast, when asked if she fears BG.
I can not remember exactly what she said but it made me think she believes bg is somehow changed.
I am wondering what kind of change could make bg less dangerous/evil.

 

[BNA]

If LE thinks BG is “different” since the murders, what can that possibly mean?
Kelsi had an interesting response, in a podcast, when asked if she fears BG.
I can not remember exactly what she said but it made me think she believes bg is somehow changed.
I am wondering what kind of change could make bg less dangerous/evil.

That is a good point. Cannot recall the exact words...but she basically blew off the notion that the killer would be coming after her. I've never understood why she was/is so sure of that.

 

[BNA]

I've talked to my kids and their friends about this crime since it happened. Two of my kids are close in age to the girls and have played softball a number of times in the area, before and after the crime.


Recently I asked about resetting their phones, specifically what would cause them to do it now or then. A few mentioned viruses slowing down the phone or taking up memory would cause them to do that. But they all agreed they would back the phone pics up to the cloud and or desktop.

just their points of view I find interesting as MOO

And, I believe Libby would have done the same....and backed up the phone...unless something was very wrong. I guess it could be that the malfunction was so serious that a backup was not possible. IDK

 

[somequestions]

If you were looking at this case in terms of profiling I think the statistic I read is that many of these type of child abduction/killers tend to be young men. But when I look at the video clip from Liberty German's phone I do not see a young man. I see an older man in his 50's or 60's.

When it comes to locations, the idea that someone would have to be familiar enough to know the Monon High Bridge trail and therefore be somewhat local to the area fits a good profile. But after over 2 and a 1/2 years no one can recognize either the video or sketch in a small town like Delphi, Indiana.

So in conclusion I see an older man who is familiar with remote locations, but is not local to those locations. In my opinion, he does not fit the profile or the sketch. I think that could be why the killer in this case seems like such a mystery.

 

[JudgeJudi]

BBM.

Not shading family, just curious. If Derrick never told her "No" for anything, then when Libby was asking all week to go to the bridge, why didn't he take her then? Why did she ask Kelci and not Dad? Do we know?

James Renner video with Becky (link previously provided )

Derrick works for Becky who has an appraisal business and he was out taking photos of properties for her on the day of the murders. He couldn’t give permission in advance as he wouldn’t know until the actual day if he would be available to drive them home. He was gone before Libby asked Becky if they could go to the bridge and Kelsi said she could drive them there. Becky told Libby she’d need her dad’s permission and Abby spoke to her mother about it. As Becky was working and Kelsi was going to visit a friend and then go to work, Libby had to make arrangements for her dad to pick them up at a set time. Derrick would have been unaware if they were going, and if so, what time he would pick them up.

I now know from the debunking video that Libby had been asking Kelsi to take them to the bridge earlier in the week ... because her father would have been working.