CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #63

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BBM. A total of 5 teeth were found on PF's property, iirc. There's been no testimony the partial tooth found by the FBI agent was human or that it belonged to KB. If I am mistaken, please provide links.

imo, the witness testimony aligns with what KK said because she was coached by the DA and acknowledged in court that she received "bullet points."

I've seen no proof any of KB's teeth were knocked out. I've not seen any evidence that chemicals detected blood "all over KB's condo." The testimony was only about the bathroom area--a room KK testified she barely entered.

JMO
Well first, I was in the courtroom, so I heard it with my own ears. But here is also a link with that.

Patrick Frazee trial: 'No body, no crime,' friend testifies accused killer told him

She never once said she received "bullet points." NOT ONCE. Once again, I was there. Where have you even seen this posted in the media? Because, it's absolutely false. Maybe you got it confused when they went over her 7 parts to the plea deal. These were not bullet points about the info she gave.

Still didn't answer my question about how every other witnesses testimony aligns with what she said. They were approached after KK....so.... Are all of these fabricated testimony's in your mind?

The defense has even acknowledge that KB's blood was left on the fireplace, wall, etc in their cross exam of KK. Will you believe it now because the defense said it?
 
The tooth was just brought up for the first time this week and only in a general way. We have yet to hear from the CBI experts on what the findings are and whether they were able to get a DNA match on the tooth. But the article I posted explained the existence of the tooth, CBI analysis process and possible DNA testing and confirmed that the Defense would be present at the analysis as the tooth itself would be lost/consumed by the testing.

The trial itself just started in the last week. We have yet to hear from the CBI experts whether chemicals detected blood in the condo even though the DA moved quickly past the condo to the Nash ranch evidence. Why is that? It would be imperative for the jury to know what the chemical testing of the condo revealed considering the K-9 dogs came up with nothing.

It has been known for many months that 5 teeth were seized via search warrant. So far, no CBI analysis of any of the teeth has been submitted as testimony.

JMO
 
The trial itself just started in the last week. We have yet to hear from the CBI experts whether chemicals detected blood in the condo even though the DA moved quickly past the condo to the Nash ranch evidence. Why is that? It would be imperative for the jury to know what the chemical testing of the condo revealed considering the K-9 dogs came up with nothing.

It has been known for many months that 5 teeth were seized via search warrant. So far, no CBI analysis of any of the teeth has been submitted as testimony.

JMO

We have yet to hear forensic results regarding ANYTHING thus far. The prosecution is going through the timeline first. They didn’t skip anything.
 
BBM. A total of 5 teeth were found on PF's property, iirc. There's been no testimony the partial tooth found by the FBI agent was human or that it belonged to KB. If I am mistaken, please provide links.

imo, the witness testimony aligns with what KK said because she was coached by the DA and acknowledged in court that she received "bullet points."

I've seen no proof any of KB's teeth were knocked out. I've not seen any evidence that chemicals detected blood "all over KB's condo." The testimony was only about the bathroom area--a room KK testified she barely entered.

JMO
In thinking about your concerns with the case I wonder where you think KB was on 11/24?

Do you see no room for the possibility that one of her teeth (or multiple teeth) might have been found on PF's property?
 
Well first, I was in the courtroom, so I heard it with my own ears. But here is also a link with that.

Patrick Frazee trial: 'No body, no crime,' friend testifies accused killer told him

She never once said she received "bullet points." NOT ONCE. Once again, I was there. Where have you even seen this posted in the media? Because, it's absolutely false. Maybe you got it confused when they went over her 7 parts to the plea deal. These were not bullet points about the info she gave.

Still didn't answer my question about how every other witnesses testimony aligns with what she said. They were approached after KK....so.... Are all of these fabricated testimony's in your mind?

The defense has even acknowledge that KB's blood was left on the fireplace, wall, etc in their cross exam of KK. Will you believe it now because the defense said it?

That’s a great point about the defense conceding that the blood evidence is legitimate.

I didn’t even catch that at the time.

What I did catch, was the defense conceding that PF was the one driving his truck with the tote in the back, as he drove past the furniture store on the way to the Thanksgiving dinner he showed up late for.

In direct contradiction of where he said he was at the time (feeding cattle).
 
I think a third party is involved and is tied to PF. I think KK's drugs incapacitated KB and that is why KK is so desperate to paint PF as the murderer with a ball bat in the condo. She feared losing her job. Which she lost. She's likely going to lose her children.

Yet not one shred of evidence that a ball bat was used or that the murder took place there. KK is a sick, obsessive liar trying to save her own hide. Not once in her testimony did she even mention her children or trying to protect them from PF after she claimed he made threats. What kind of mother does that? It's because PF never went to ID and never threatened her children.

JMO

Do you have a particular third party in mind and do you think the did something at the behest of PF or KK?

Again, Blue Star showed blood all over Kelsey's townhouse and...

Slater said a CBI analyst conducted a DNA test of the blood found in the bathroom and compared it to Kelsey Berreth’s. The profiles were a match, according to Slater.

How and when would said drugs have been administered and are you suggesting Kelsey was drugged, taken elsewhere and then killed?
 
Well first, I was in the courtroom, so I heard it with my own ears. But here is also a link with that.

Patrick Frazee trial: 'No body, no crime,' friend testifies accused killer told him

She never once said she received "bullet points." NOT ONCE. Once again, I was there. Where have you even seen this posted in the media? Because, it's absolutely false. Maybe you got it confused when they went over her 7 parts to the plea deal. These were not bullet points about the info she gave.

Still didn't answer my question about how every other witnesses testimony aligns with what she said. They were approached after KK....so.... Are all of these fabricated testimony's in your mind?

The defense has even acknowledge that KB's blood was left on the fireplace, wall, etc in their cross exam of KK. Will you believe it now because the defense said it?
In KOAA reporter Sam Kraemer's last video, he covered Steigerwald's cross questions to KK extensively. The bullet points were apparently read off in court by Steigerwald who said this is what she was given, what she agreed to with the DA, to get her deal. KK responded that it's the truth. hth

Day 5

Also, and not directed at this poster but just a general comment, since KK is an admitted co-conspirator, the Prosecution here must corroborate each point in her testimony. This is not simply good lawyering, it is required for conviction in this case. "Accomplice instruction". JMO
 
Ritchie said after Thanksgiving he saw the pallets burned and saw Frazee near the fire. He said Frazee burned a few shed deer antlers, and the fire got about 13 feet high. He did not know if he smelled any accelerants.

That would be THE fire, wouldn't it?

Nothing there about Ma so I maybe be mixed or another reporter tweeted it. In fact, I think they used the word "patio" in reference to Ma coming out on the deck.
I think Ritchie said that Frazee told him his mother had come out to see the fire when it got really high.

Imo
 
Investigators found a partial tooth in the dirt next to an area of melted plastic where prosecutors’ key witness said Patrick Frazee burned the body of his fiancé, Kelsey Berreth, after he killed her.

But at the end of Friday’s testimony it remained unclear whether the tooth belonged to the 29-year-old instructor pilot. Upcoming testimony will give more information on the tooth fragment. If it is Berreth’s tooth, it is the only known remain of the Woodland Park mother, whose 2018 disappearance drew national attention to the rural ranchlands of Teller County.

The tooth and excavation of the burn area were part of prosecutors’ effort on Friday to corroborate the account told by their key witness, Krystal Lee Kenney. The Idaho nurse testified over two days that she cleaned up a bloody crime scene and helped Frazee burn Berreth’s body after the Florissant rancher bludgeoned his fiancé to death with a bat on Thanksgiving Day.

Testimony on Friday also showed the breadth of the investigation into the Woodland Park mother’s disappearance and alleged murder by her fiancé. Prosecutors called in Kenney’s father as well as a Woodland Park Sonic Drive In manager who helped investigators find video of Kenney at the fast food restaurant, and the man who runs security at the Idaho hospital where Kenney worked. Some of the witnesses’ testimony lasted less than five minutes.

The wide net of the investigation also entangled a longtime friend of Frazee, Joseph Moore, who said he knew Frazee since he was a boy and considered him like a stepson.

But Moore testified that Frazee in April 2018 made a comment that he had “figured out a way” to kill Berreth. Moore reacted in shock, he said, but Frazee didn’t take the comment back.

“He said, ‘No body, no crime’” Moore testified.

Six days after Thanksgiving but before Berreth was reported missing, Moore had a conversation with Frazee during which Frazee worried about having Kelsey Berreth’s blood on his clothes. Frazee said the blood was from a nosebleed Berreth had. He was worried after it had been washed if it would show traces of blood.

On Dec. 20, Moore said he had another conversation with Frazee, in which Frazee expressed shock that Berreth’s disappearance had attracted national attention.

“Then he said, ‘Man, if I had known it was going to blow up this big I never would have…’” Moore said. “Then he trailed off.”

Moore said he contacted both Frazee’s attorney and the police about the call.
Moore was the one who handled the forklift to place Radar on the hay bails. After this incident PF called Moore about any disturbance out at Nash. Unknown to PF Moore was already involved with LE and made another call after this jail call.


Moore is only the second person close to Frazee who has been called to testify thus far and became emotional while describing their relationship.

You don’t want to picture someone you’ve known so long and have trusted,” Moore said, tears in his eyes. “You don’t want to think they could have done something like this.”

Many of the other witnesses gave testimony that corroborated Kenney’s account.

Kenney’s father, Sidney Dustin Kenney, corroborated his daughter’s story that she was at her Idaho home on Thanksgiving Day – the day Frazee allegedly killed Berreth.

Sidney Kenney spoke softly on the stand and said he was nervous. He described his oldest daughter as a people pleaser who was good at anything she put her mind to.

“I remember that she was really soft-hearted,” he said.

Security camera footage showed Kenney at a Woodland Park Sonic Drive-In on Nov. 24, the day she said she cleaned Berreth’s condo of blood. Images from a gas station showed Kenney and Frazee’s vehicles moving in and out of the parking lot, consistent with what Kenney told investigators, a Colorado Bureau of Investigation agent testified. The footage also showed Frazee filling a large red gas can on Nov. 24, the day Kenney said he used gas to fuel the fire that destroyed Berreth’s body.

On at least two occasions during the investigation, law enforcement brought dogs trained to detect the smell of decomposing human bodies to scenes involved in the case.

On Dec. 4, two days after Berreth’s mother reported her missing, a cadaver dog swept Berreth’s condo. While the dog alerted to a pair of dirty underwear in the bathroom, it did not alert anywhere else in the house, which Kenney said had been covered in blood a week prior.

But the dog’s handler, Brian Eberle, said it’s possible the blood wasn’t old enough yet to register as decomposed to the dog’s nose. The dog, Lucy, also alerted to the back bumper of Berreth’s car parked in the driveway – approximately the same spot where Kenney testified she placed bags of bloody items from the home while locking up the condo.

As described up above, another dog handler, Frank Hurst, and his bloodhound visited the Teller County ranch where Kenney said Frazee hid Berreth’s body in a plastic box. Although the dog searched the ranch’s barn on February 13 – more than two months after the body was allegedly moved from the area – his dog alerted to a hay bale with black stains.
--------------------------------

Circumstantial evidence:
Fingerprint evidence, videotapes, sound recordings, photographs, and many other examples of physical evidence that support the drawing of an inference, i.e., circumstantial evidence, are considered very strong possible
evidence.
***********************************

Bam! Now wait for forensics to testify!

We still have 60+ witnesses to testify yet. There was originally 257+ pieces of evidence.

Who said it again? It an't over till the fat lady sings!


From your post, first I have heard this. I tried to find the article that must have this update within it but Google is failing me.

"Moore was the one who handled the forklift to place Radar on the hay bails. After this incident PF called Moore about any disturbance out at Nash. Unknown to PF Moore was already involved with LE and made another call after this jail call."

ETA I spent about 10 minutes looking for this quote somewhere, anywhere, and I cannot find it. Google is my friend but I cannot find it. All I could find was this that went into detail about him being at the Red Barn

"After this call, Moore immediately called Frazee’s attorney and then law enforcement. He then went down to Nash Ranch, but didn’t report seeing anything out of the norm, aside from noting that some alfalfa hay that had previously been there was was no longer in the barn. He said he did not get on top of the hay bales at any time."

Friend testifies Frazee said, ‘I figured out a way to kill her’

As we had been discussing about his involvement, and the timing I really would like to find the article that says that he was the one who put radar up on the bales of hay that is from, can anybody else find it?
 
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I don't think that is correct.

One Ranch hand did see PF at the fire.

Former ranch hands testify in Frazee murder trial

"Ritchie said after Thanksgiving he saw the pallets burned and saw Frazee near the fire. He said Frazee burned a few shed deer antlers, and the fire got about 13 feet high."
EDIT: my answer is wrong. Warwick7


So Ritchie was there on Thanksgiving? Taken from the above article "On cross examination Ritchie said his recollection was a little fuzzy, but nothing seemed to be out of the ordinary that Thanksgiving."

Was Ritchie living there?

He also stated "Ritchie said after Thanksgiving he saw the pallets burned and saw Frazee near the fire. He said Frazee burned a few shed deer antlers, and the fire got about 13 feet high. He did not know if he smelled any accelerants. Ritchie also said there was a silver galvanized metal trash can a few feet away that he'd never seen before that day, with a lid on it."
 
The trial itself just started in the last week. We have yet to hear from the CBI experts whether chemicals detected blood in the condo even though the DA moved quickly past the condo to the Nash ranch evidence. Why is that? It would be imperative for the jury to know what the chemical testing of the condo revealed considering the K-9 dogs came up with nothing.

It has been known for many months that 5 teeth were seized via search warrant. So far, no CBI analysis of any of the teeth has been submitted as testimony.

JMO
Well, like you said, the trial only started last week. They have not addressed the physical evidence, the blood testing, or any of the DNA evidence yet.
There are still two weeks to go.
Maybe they are saving the best for last.

Imo
 
The tooth was just brought up for the first time this week and only in a general way. We have yet to hear from the CBI experts on what the findings are and whether they were able to get a DNA match on the tooth. But the article I posted explained the existence of the tooth, CBI analysis process and possible DNA testing and confirmed that the Defense would be present at the analysis as the tooth itself would be lost/consumed by the testing.
That's right. We have yet to hear from CBI experts yet you seem desperate to want to believe those expert opinions are already known. There is nothing "known" about the tooth. No one even knows at this point if it is a human tooth. Of course opinions will change if the testimony is that it is KB's tooth. Why do you want to rush it ahead of testimony?

JMO
 
That's right. We have yet to hear from CBI experts yet you seem desperate to want to believe those expert opinions are already known. There is nothing "known" about the tooth. No one even knows at this point if it is a human tooth. Of course opinions will change if the testimony is that it is KB's tooth. Why do you want to rush it ahead of testimony?

JMO

The prosecution knows, as they showed a picture of it during their opening statement.

They wouldn’t do that, only to reveal that it’s a tooth from one of PF’s abused horses or something. It’s not hard to read between the lines here.

You don’t advertise something that the defense can then turn against you.

If it wasn’t determined to be human, the DA simply wouldn’t have mentioned it to the jury. This isn’t complicated stuff.
 
BBM. Not if PF told them his mother said the flames were too high and to put it out. I'm confident that if PF told them the height of the fire and that his mother came out and told him it was too high and to put it out, PF also told this to KK. It would also mean KK lied in her testimony when she said PF told her it burned all night and that it was still burning when she left at 7:30. There is no way PF would have left a fire with flames that high unattended just so he could take KK to her car.

I don't believe an LE officer knows whether a partial tooth is human or belongs to an animal, so no, I'm still not convinced a human body was in the fire.

JMO
ETA: From the links page: According to testimony, it was on the last shovel of dirt that an agent found what she believed to be a tooth. It turned out to be a partial tooth.

Maybe I am violating TOS but I have to ask, are you a friend or a relative of PF? And if so, shouldn’t you be listed as an insider?
 
I think a third party is involved and is tied to PF. I think KK's drugs incapacitated KB and that is why KK is so desperate to paint PF as the murderer with a ball bat in the condo. She feared losing her job. Which she lost. She's likely going to lose her children.

Yet not one shred of evidence that a ball bat was used or that the murder took place there. KK is a sick, obsessive liar trying to save her own hide. Not once in her testimony did she even mention her children or trying to protect them from PF after she claimed he made threats. What kind of mother does that? It's because PF never went to ID and never threatened her children.

JMO
What drugs?
We haven't seen any evidence that KK ever had any drugs or stole them from the hospital.
How could she have incapacitated Kelsey with the drugs if she did not arrive until two days after the murder took place? There is plenty of evidence that the murder took place in the condo.

Kelsey had to be dead in the tote by the time PF took the body to the Nash Ranch that night since there were stains on the hay and the dogs alerted there so when would she have given her the drugs?

Or did she give the drugs to the third party and they gave them to her?
But what would even be the point of giving her the drugs in the first place? And why would KK be afraid that her drugs incapacitated her so she had to make it look like PF murdered her if there was no way to prove she got the drugs in the first place?

Sounds too complicated to me.
It doesn't make sense.

Imo
 
Oh, and @MyBelle - not sure if you saw my post with the questions but do you personally know or have you had dealings with PF or KK?

Maybe I am violating TOS but I have to ask, are you a friend or a relative of PF? And if so, shouldn’t you be listed as an insider?

I don't think so unless she was also a friend of Chris Watts.
 
I think a third party is involved and is tied to PF. I think KK's drugs incapacitated KB and that is why KK is so desperate to paint PF as the murderer with a ball bat in the condo. She feared losing her job. Which she lost. She's likely going to lose her children.

Yet not one shred of evidence that a ball bat was used or that the murder took place there. KK is a sick, obsessive liar trying to save her own hide. Not once in her testimony did she even mention her children or trying to protect them from PF after she claimed he made threats. What kind of mother does that? It's because PF never went to ID and never threatened her children.
JMO

it's kind of a stretch to say there is "not one shred of evidence" the murder took place in the condo. the last photo of her was at the condo with PF. KB was never seen again after that. there was blood evidence found, with some of it found in locations that one might not normally expect blood to be found. a dog hit on decomposition in the location that KK said she placed some bags after the clean up. PF certainly was around the condo for several hours that afternoon with no sight of KB after that last photo.
 
MyBelle's theory (or theories) is just so far-fetched and borderline conspiracy, and there is absolutely no indication of those events (and interestingly enough they seem to be the only person on here who seems to believe anyone other than PF murdered Kelsey). I lurk around here, reading almost every post and every news article that is available in europe. Despite the absence of an actual body, all signs point to the easiest possible explanation (plus the evidence, the phone records, the pictures, the court witnesses' testimonials etc) is that PF murdered her. But many far more active and engaged posters on here have elaborated it far better than I can.
 
Yes. And if they don’t they can be held in contempt.
But the trial is only expected to last two more weeks, right? What if sometime this week they call SF, she refuses to testify and is jailed on a contempt charge? All she has to do is sit in jail for less than two weeks; once the trial is over her contempt is a moot point. Right?
 
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