OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #51

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Caylee Advocate said:
If you say so... LOL. No worries, I sometimes feel like I am talking to myself also. :D
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‘Your hard work is greatly appreciated and you have insights that always pique the interest of the rest of us during the slow periods. You keep us together and remind us the real purpose of this thread to see justice for R/G/M’s. Thank you.
 
ColMustard said:
Didn't GR's dad say in a video interview that BCI told him they found two different calibers of shell casings? I searched for the video but none I found include him making this statement, though I know I saw it numerous times.

Mr. Rhoden said back then, "it was more than one (killer), it was more than two..." He also said they told him GR was shot three times in the head.

The statement must be in the video taken by the reporter that showed up late in the video below, haven't found that yet.

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The coroner said it. Gary was killed with a larger caliber gun.

JMO
 
ColMustard said:
Didn't GR's dad say in a video interview that BCI told him they found two different calibers of shell casings? I searched for the video but none I found include him making this statement, though I know I saw it numerous times.

Mr. Rhoden said back then, "it was more than one (killer), it was more than two..." He also said they told him GR was shot three times in the head.

The statement must be in the video taken by the reporter that showed up late in the video below, haven't found that yet.

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I don't remember if it was in a live interview, or an article written where GR's father mentioned about two different caliper bullet casings found at CRsr's place. Either way, it was mentioned.
 
Betty P said:
Yes, custody is the primary motive for the murders, according to LE. But proof of forgery of custody documents isn't the linchpin of all the cases. If the state is unable to convince the jury it has enough proof that RN forged some custody or guardianship documents, it doesn't negate the fact that custody was obviously a big motive for the murders. There's evidence that JW was fighting for custody of S and there's plenty of evidence that the W's killed the Rhoden family and Hannah Gilley.

But, yes, RN's trial could reveal a lot about the details of the murders and the W's planning and execution. It will all be very interesting! Glad everyone is checking in to follow.
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‘I’ve been going over and over in my mind and reviewing all the documents we are privy too. I would love for this case to break wide open the foundation of the murders. But I have a strange feeling that the state will try to convict without revealing too many details of the murder cuz she was not indicted of murder nor was she indicted in conspiracy to murder. Therefore RN case would be treated as a stand alone trial with the intent to prove the documents were forged only. They only need to prove (in her case) that she knowingly notarizing these documents under false pretenses—she was aware that it was not HR’s signature because #1 HR wasn’t present to sign before the notary, #2 at least one of the “witnesses” (2 are required) to her signature was also not present before the notary, OR #3 she loaned or allowed AW to use her notary stamp. If they have evidence of criminal intent on RN’s part then they have to prove she knew about the custody disputes & murder plot AT THE TIME OF the notarizing and would have indicted her at least on conspiracy, but they did not. Sure, as close knit as AW is to AW and grandsons, I have no doubt she knew but does the state have evidence to prove it? I believe her motive is loyalty to her family.

To prove perjury and obstruction of justice her GJ testimony would suffice. They would need to show prior knowledge of W4’s participation OR suspected participation (assuming she was not aware prior to GJ-lol). She could claim she was not aware until the GJ convened and when the prosecution was accusing her daughter & family of a horrible crimes she wanted to protect her family. Again, motive-family loyalty. I believe these charges were for smoke screen only. JMOO.

I believe the state will settle for falsifying records cuz that’s really what they are after. Her GJ testimony will basically be about knowingly notarizing false documents and they will drop the other two charges by not proving for fear of revealing too much information on the murders. Since possibly a “first” offense and has dependent mother, I believe she will get 1 yr probation only. This is JMOO.
 
Merrygirl said:
‘I’ve been going over and over in my mind and reviewing all the documents we are privy too. I would love for this case to break wide open the foundation of the murders. But I have a strange feeling that the state will try to convict without revealing too many details of the murder cuz she was not indicted of murder nor was she indicted in conspiracy to murder. Therefore RN case would be treated as a stand alone trial with the intent to prove the documents were forged only. They only need to prove (in her case) that she knowingly notarizing these documents under false pretenses—she was aware that it was not HR’s signature because #1 HR wasn’t present to sign before the notary, #2 at least one of the “witnesses” (2 are required) to her signature was also not present before the notary, OR #3 she loaned or allowed AW to use her notary stamp. If they have evidence of criminal intent on RN’s part then they have to prove she knew about the custody disputes & murder plot AT THE TIME OF the notarizing and would have indicted her at least on conspiracy, but they did not. Sure, as close knit as AW is to AW and grandsons, I have no doubt she knew but does the state have evidence to prove it? I believe her motive is loyalty to her family.

To prove perjury and obstruction of justice her GJ testimony would suffice. They would need to show prior knowledge of W4’s participation OR suspected participation (assuming she was not aware prior to GJ-lol). She could claim she was not aware until the GJ convened and when the prosecution was accusing her daughter & family of a horrible crimes she wanted to protect her family. Again, motive-family loyalty. I believe these charges were for smoke screen only. JMOO.

I believe the state will settle for falsifying records cuz that’s really what they are after. Her GJ testimony will basically be about knowingly notarizing false documents and they will drop the other two charges by not proving for fear of revealing too much information on the murders. Since possibly a “first” offense and has dependent mother, I believe she will get 1 yr probation only. This is JMOO.
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This is JMO but to me the prosecution is will or does hope to use RN's conviction as a foundation at the murder trials. Once she is convicted it will help to show premeditation, I know that is not the only evidence they have but it will help. If they fail to convict I don't think it will hurt the prosecution they RNs case just helps to lay the ground work.
 
Berrybell said:
This is JMO but to me the prosecution is will or does hope to use RN's conviction as a foundation at the murder trials. Once she is convicted it will help to show premeditation, I know that is not the only evidence they have but it will help. If they fail to convict I don't think it will hurt the prosecution they RNs case just helps to lay the ground work.
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Thank you for your thoughts. I think the case on RN is not a huge deal against Her and won’t change anything yet. I think prosecution only needs to validate that these documents were forged, when, and by whom—that’s all. They can’t bring up anything about the murders themselves cuz 1) they have not indicted her on murder or conspiracy and 2) they don’t have any evidence that puts her at the scenes, and 3) they can’t prove criminal intent on RN’s part. What this trial does is to prove these documents were forged and will help establish pre-murder timeline and that’s all. However, since it will be established as a pre-murder timeline, along with multiple custody texts, etc then it can help to establish motive which will be proven in the future murder trials.
 
Merrygirl said:
‘I’ve been going over and over in my mind and reviewing all the documents we are privy too. I would love for this case to break wide open the foundation of the murders. But I have a strange feeling that the state will try to convict without revealing too many details of the murder cuz she was not indicted of murder nor was she indicted in conspiracy to murder. Therefore RN case would be treated as a stand alone trial with the intent to prove the documents were forged only. They only need to prove (in her case) that she knowingly notarizing these documents under false pretenses—she was aware that it was not HR’s signature because #1 HR wasn’t present to sign before the notary, #2 at least one of the “witnesses” (2 are required) to her signature was also not present before the notary, OR #3 she loaned or allowed AW to use her notary stamp. If they have evidence of criminal intent on RN’s part then they have to prove she knew about the custody disputes & murder plot AT THE TIME OF the notarizing and would have indicted her at least on conspiracy, but they did not. Sure, as close knit as AW is to AW and grandsons, I have no doubt she knew but does the state have evidence to prove it? I believe her motive is loyalty to her family.

To prove perjury and obstruction of justice her GJ testimony would suffice. They would need to show prior knowledge of W4’s participation OR suspected participation (assuming she was not aware prior to GJ-lol). She could claim she was not aware until the GJ convened and when the prosecution was accusing her daughter & family of a horrible crimes she wanted to protect her family. Again, motive-family loyalty. I believe these charges were for smoke screen only. JMOO.

I believe the state will settle for falsifying records cuz that’s really what they are after. Her GJ testimony will basically be about knowingly notarizing false documents and they will drop the other two charges by not proving for fear of revealing too much information on the murders. Since possibly a “first” offense and has dependent mother, I believe she will get 1 yr probation only. This is JMOO.
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Can any of the W4 be subpoenaed to testify in RN's case?
 
ColMustard said:
Here's some confirmation in this news article.
Pike County murder investigation continues; fundraisers for victims begin

"That confirms what the father of victim Gary Rhoden, told 10TV late last week. Kenneth Rhoden said the coroner told him two different bullet casings were found at the scene."
Father of Pike Co. murder victims says killer should be tortured

"Kenneth said according to the coroner there were two different bullet casings found at the scene, leading him to believe this crimes were the acts of more than one person."
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That's very important information you just brought up. I am surprised! All this time I thought they were so careful with their brass catchers and that they would count every shell casing, so I am now surprised to find out that they actually left 2 behind--2 different ones!

Great find CM!

So this makes a big difference with the ballistic matching because now they have more than just the maglite flashlite silencer from the well search--now they can compare the maglite to the bullet casings as well.
 
Do we know who this investigator is? It's not the one being investigated himself, is it?

"As the date for the Oct. 21 date for the trial approached, prosecutors requested another delay due to the fact an investigator whose testimony they obviously feel is necessary to their case would not have been available on that date."

First trial in Rhoden murders set for Nov. 18 - Portsmouth Daily Times
 
There has been talk of Billy selling car parts & Big Chris like to rebuild wrecked cars for re-sell to make a profit, if I was wanting scrap metal and car parts and didn’t mind to be caught with stolen goods (like in the past) I would have me a 18 wheeler hauling stuff and to pick up broke down vehicle alone the highways to scrap out, most of the time these cars are left for the State to pickup and go to auction, just saying, looks like it could be done JMO
Even better if you have someone to stick a notary seal on the title to be crushed for scrap, JMO
 
I'm not a notary but it seems to me that notarizing custody or guardianship documents for one's own great-granddaughter and great grandson shows a huge lack of judgement. (Whether Rita knew anything or not). Actually it's kind of morbid when you think about it.
 
Cool Cats said:
That's very important information you just brought up. I am surprised! All this time I thought they were so careful with their brass catchers and that they would count every shell casing, so I am now surprised to find out that they actually left 2 behind--2 different ones!

Great find CM!

So this makes a big difference with the ballistic matching because now they have more than just the maglite flashlite silencer from the well search--now they can compare the maglite to the bullet casings as well.
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We discussed this at the time. It is possible that one or both of the casings were there before the murders. They could be from CRsr's guns when he reloaded them sometime. We really do not know if they are something important or not. Hopefully they are...
 
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