Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #116

[Mike Britton]

Hence, my sniffin' of a rat.

Am I to REALLY believe that circa 2017, 2 girls missing, last known place they were was at that bridge, and LE fails to secure the perimeter, leaving the search through the wee hours of the night to volunteers? Seriously???

The grass-roots effort to find the girls was expedited quickly, and IMO correctly carried out given the priorities of the moment. From what I know about abductions (which is more than I should), every second counts, statistically speaking.

It was customary in some places in the US even two years ago to assume people of a certain age (teenagers?) reported missing to be potential runaways. Hopefully this isn't still the case.

It's also my understanding the searchers didn't get as far down Deer Creek as the actual crime scene, and dogs weren't used until the next day. This means the crime scene was undisturbed—I hope. Securing the perimeter would have taken a lot of manpower, given the lay of the land, but some luck would have been nice.

It seems like the event was so out of character for the town that it got real very quickly for everyone. Stuff like that didn't happen often, and may never have happened in Delphi.

 

[sleuther0192837465]

We in the domestic violence field know that non-fatal strangulation is one of the most reliable risk predictors of an abuser killing his victim. We take it so seriously that we passed legislation in my state bumping non-fatal strangulation up to a felony. This is a dangerous, dangerous dude capable for killing young girls.
Non-fatal strangulation is an important risk factor for homicide of women

Thank you for posting this! Thank you for being an amazing advocate for victims!!!
I so agree!! Idk if it’s legal or even possible but I hope someone is keeping an eye on him somehow!

 

[JnRyan]

Just thought of something-

Perhaps someone in LE took down info re: someone's alibi (was at work, for example) but didn't actually follow through on the steps required to confirm said alibi, because it was a well-known good ol' boy community member or even a friend of his.

At the time, he wouldn't in a million years doubt this guy's alibi ... but now, ... it's looking like this guy may be involved ... and oops! Crap! No, sorry, I signed off on it but never actually checked it out, just thought, you know, there was no need to, I mean, who would ever think- nah, it CAN'T be him...

The task force was much larger in the beginning with LE investigators from around the state. A month to two months into the investigation this task force was down sized and moved to another building. I'm wondering if something got lost or misfiled in the move? Or something one of the investigators had for follow-up got misplaced when that investigator left the task force?

 

[Vesta66S]

Hence, my sniffin' of a rat.

Am I to REALLY believe that circa 2017, 2 girls missing, last known place they were was at that bridge, and LE fails to secure the perimeter, leaving the search through the wee hours of the night to volunteers? Seriously???

As far as they knew then, it was not a crime scene.

 

[drama_farmer]

I'm in the "they have no idea who did it" camp.

Me too. Pass the marshmallows. IMO

 

[drama_farmer]

I personally think they're blowing smoke. I could be wrong.

I think it's a combination of press conference theatrics and the possibility that LE has already investigated all of the "usual suspects" and the "regular folk" are the only ones left. IMO

 

[flashy09]

#2
A mix of peeps looking around, not an organized search per say, no foul play suspected and here we sit... moo

Reminds of me of JonBenet and her father being allowed to find her

 

[Justice101]

I wonder who actually found them. If it were a lone male, possibly BG returning to the scene, he knows the girls and that explains his DNA being at the crime scene. He could have possibly had time to stage the scene as well.

The shoe throws me though. It was found on the road? I've also heard it was in the mud by the creek. How did Libby lose one shoe? My opinion only.

Is the shoe that was found from one of the girls an established fact?

I hadn't heard that... and if so, that is very significant. Let us know if there is a source for that.

 

[Justice101]

The grass-roots effort to find the girls was expedited quickly, and IMO correctly carried out given the priorities of the moment. From what I know about abductions (which is more than I should), every second counts, statistically speaking.

It was customary in some places in the US even two years ago to assume people of a certain age (teenagers?) reported missing to be potential runaways. Hopefully this isn't still the case.

It's also my understanding the searchers didn't get as far down Deer Creek as the actual crime scene, and dogs weren't used until the next day. This means the crime scene was undisturbed—I hope. Securing the perimeter would have taken a lot of manpower, given the lay of the land, but some luck would have been nice.

It seems like the event was so out of character for the town that it got real very quickly for everyone. Stuff like that didn't happen often, and may never have happened in Delphi.

The other thing is that common sense would most likely make most people assume that the girls fell off the bridge into the creek or otherwise ended up in the water... That creek flows northwest... which is the opposite direction from where the body was found which was UPSTREAM. Obviously, bodies don't float upstream.

Therefore, the search teams most likely worked the easier accessible areas on the trail and down to the creek and DOWNSTREAM from the bridge and the other side of the bank that was more accessible.

That's what I would put together if I was asked to put together a quick search plan for someone missing. Limited unknown resources... when you have no idea how many volunteers would even show up... go with the most likely areas that you can actually get covered.. Don't waste your time on Hail Marys where it is unlikely to find someone.. Doing so would shortchange areas where it was likely they might be found....

Just my 2 cents worth. I fault nobody for calling off the search that night given not knowing there was no pretense of anything ominous and they didn't want to keep people there all night working in the dark and get someone hurt.

 

[Ozoner]

Hence, my sniffin' of a rat.

Am I to REALLY believe that circa 2017, 2 girls missing, last known place they were was at that bridge, and LE fails to secure the perimeter, leaving the search through the wee hours of the night to volunteers? Seriously???

In a small town, it isn't that hard to believe.
Also, LE didn't know the location of the crime scene, so what perimeter were they supposed to secure?

 

[Justice101]

deleted

 

[8771]

I think that’s bs...IMO those crimes are pretty freakin serious...he should not be out of jail! The victims are children SMH

Absolutely. Just because he wasn't able to complete the attempted murder, does not mean he's safe in public. It means he got practice in. I hate how lightly our criminal justice system treats attempted murder. It's like we give these people a pat on the back and say, "better luck next time, pal" ...

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Is the shoe that was found from one of the girls an established fact?

I hadn't heard that... and if so, that is very significant. Let us know if there is a source for that.

In this video it is discussed at around the 7:30 minute mark. Kelsi mentions finding the shoe at around the 9 minute mark.

"Somebody yelled up that they had found a shoe..."

It is also mentioned in this Investigation Discovery article.
Who KIlled Abby Williams & Liberty German? | Still a Mystery on Investigation Discovery | Investigation Discovery

"Then, on February 14, searchers reportedly found a single shoe. Within minutes, they made another grim discovery — they reportedly found the girls' remains, less than a mile from where they had started their hike just 24 hours earlier. The tragedy made headlines around the country, and media flooded the small town."

 

[Kudzuu]

In this video it is discussed at around the 7:30 minute mark. Kelsi mentions finding the shoe at around the 9 minute mark.

"Somebody yelled up that they had found a shoe..."

It is also mentioned in this Investigation Discovery article.
Who KIlled Abby Williams & Liberty German? | Still a Mystery on Investigation Discovery | Investigation Discovery

"Then, on February 14, searchers reportedly found a single shoe. Within minutes, they made another grim discovery — they reportedly found the girls' remains, less than a mile from where they had started their hike just 24 hours earlier. The tragedy made headlines around the country, and media flooded the small town."

Thanks Bradfordsleuth! I think there a couple of other sources, IIRC, from some of the MSM early reports. I know I read it up thread in the last couple of days.

 

[sunshineray]

And I think this is the issue about websleuthing - at some point the details of theories that are being discussed become "truths" in our minds and are being adopted as such. I can imagine that this is exactly why LE say it may hinder the investigation. On the other hand, it's great that we check each other and point out these details.

I think it's a bit more than just an issue with websleuthing. Never have I seen a PC like the one in April 2019.

Paraphrasing...you never thought we'd change our investigative strategy, we're starting from scratch, you are local (after putting billboards up nationwide), it's all about power to you, you want to know what we know, you could be in this room, you might have a bit of conscious left.

The words, the tone, the whole atmosphere of that PC reeked of being duped, misled and now realizing it and changing direction, starting over. This was all LE's reaction to something critical to the case that was revealed. Sherriff even said something like, people will be shocked when the truth is revealed. It's because local LE was shocked by what they found out. AJMO

 

[sunshineray]

Charlot, what date was this interview, do you know? TIA

 

[sunshineray]

#2
A mix of peeps looking around, not an organized search per say, no foul play suspected and here we sit... moo

According to Sheriff they were told by family that going somewhere and not telling the adults in their lives was something the girls had done before. That just doesn't jive with what I've read, from different family for both girls say, in different articles and interviews. I don't get the discrepancy. It doesn't matter as far as what actually happened, the girls being dead already, before searching. It sure does matter when trying to figure out if the girls were lured or meeting up with someone who they had contact with and if that played a part.

 

[stattlich1]

IMO, it is a mistake to not take a serious look at the actions, or lack thereof, on the night of the girls disappearance.

If you dropped two girls off at that remote spot, in February, and were to pick them up a few hours later, and they did not show, would you not be concerned, merely for the weather related possibilities, if nothing else?

So you've called around, checked the normal places, the friends, the friends moms, local hangouts. C'mon, there ain't that many places they could have gone around there.

And I don't know if they did or not, but easily could have, at the least posted sentries at the trail entrances, and the few roads that lead in/out of the area.

I'm supposed to believe that Fire, Rescue, EMT, LE, and the like weren't aware of the time critical factor of search and rescue?

The opportunity for corruption of the crime scene was exponentially expanded by not having law enforcement crawling all over that place. I shudder to think what went on. The scary thing is, nobody knows.

If volunteers were out there, with the suspicion those girls had to be there, then LE should also have been out there with them, not to mention a Search and Rescue dog team, a.s.a.p., en masse.

Either gross negligence, or a rat.

 

[busymcmoody]

I think it's a bit more than just an issue with websleuthing. Never have I seen a PC like the one in April 2019.

Paraphrasing...you never thought we'd change our investigative strategy, we're starting from scratch, you are local (after putting billboards up nationwide), it's all about power to you, you want to know what we know, you could be in this room, you might have a bit of conscious left.

The words, the tone, the whole atmosphere of that PC reeked of being duped, misled and now realizing it and changing direction, starting over. This was all LE's reaction to something critical to the case that was revealed. Sherriff even said something like, people will be shocked when the truth is revealed. It's because local LE was shocked by what they found out. AJMO

Huh. I said a couple of days ago that I think we'll be surprised about who the perpetrator is once they make an arrest and I haven't heard that before.

I do believe that they were misled, it definitely would explain why Doug Carter was so upset.

 

[Charlot123]

Is the shoe that was found from one of the girls an established fact?

I hadn't heard that... and if so, that is very significant. Let us know if there is a source for that.

This shoe always bothered me. Was it matching the other shoe? Was it of the same color as her other one? Was it Libby's shoe? Is it possible that it was a non-matching shoe that the perp left from the previous place of crime? Did anything belonging to the girls disappear from the current one?

The perp might have taken something, and none the wiser, because who knows what girls take with them on a walk?