CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #65

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He told so many conflicting stories to so many people who didn't hang out with each other. I think because no one ever called him on his lies and conflicting stories, he honestly started to think he was invincible.

I wonder what RS is thinking now? Is he like CW's mother, still trying to deny the obvious? Or is realizing he, too, was completely suckered?

I honestly doubt that PF ever thought LE would track down so many people to whom he had told conflicting stories. If nothing else, it has to be clear to even the most ardent PF supporter that the guy is a first class liar.

More than ever, it makes me wonder what lying version of events he told his mother and sister. I wouldn't be surprised if he told SF that KB got pregnant to try and 'trap' him, that she was nothing more to him but a good time.
 
MassGuy said:
This sounds incredibly similar to the text messages between Chris Watts and his wife Shanann.

Both women were trying to make it work, but their killers had no such interest.

Slater went onto talk about how text messages recovered from Frazee's cell phone and Berreth's iPad told a sorry story of the state of their relationship and Berreth's hurt and frustration at his broken 'promise' that they would make a home and a life together.

Slater said that they began to put together a picture of their relationship from the content and pattern of the messages.

He said: 'Based on what I read it was mostly Kelsey initiating conversations. There were very infrequent responses. There were messages sent from Kelsey with regard to Kaylee- picking her up, thanking Patrick for a nice day together, logistics as far as exchanging Kaylee back and forth.

'There were also text messages where Kelsey was expressing frustration and anger with the status of the relationship, the direction of the relationship, where it was going, from time to time and her concerns with that.'
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I thought the same thing - reminded me of Shanann texting Chris Watts something like, "thank you for letting me hold you this morning" and that these women are trying sooo hard, to the point that they are thanking these guys for any crumbs of time. These were sweet, kind women who would have been just fine on their own after a break up. No need to MURDER THEM. Yea, it causes some financial hardships. Such is life for many people. Most don't turn too murder to get rid of someone who loves you, who is trying so hard to make it work.
 
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Warwick7 said:
THIS ARTICLE IS PROFOUND.
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Patrick Frazee claimed his fiancée told him to keep their daughter after 'heated' conversation | Daily Mail Online

Quote from article:

Margaret Luce, a former client of Frazee who used his services as a farrier for her horses, took the stand to testify that Frazee had told her that Berreth 'did not want to be a mother,' and that she was 'unstable' and had threatened suicide.

Luce claimed that in a conversation after Berreth's disappearance Frazee had shared the fact that he had returned a gun to Berreth despite having concerns that she would 'hurt herself.'

She said: 'He said he didn't want her to have a gun because she might hurt herself... but she wanted the gun back and said that she was threatening to go to the police so he asked if he could try to sell it for her.'

When he couldn't get a good enough price, Luce said, Frazee told her he had returned the gun.

She said: 'I sort of wondered why he was telling me it.'

Later Luce tried to comfort Frazee with the comment: 'Perhaps Kelsey will come back.'

Frazee replied: 'Oh she's not coming back.' [BBM - @MassGuy think this one should be nominated for your 'Top 10 PF comments"].
 
NoeticSoul said:
@JakobRodgers
"Sorry, I'm really tired and stressed out. Call me in the morning when you guys wake up," #KelseyBerreth's message read, according to testimony.
"Sure I don't mind, what's going on? Are you OK? Do you need anything or can I do anything?" #PatrickFrazee replied.

@JakobRodgers
"No I'm fine, just worn out. Talk to you guys tomorrow," the message from #KelseyBerreth's phone said.
"OK, if you do, please let me know," went #PatrickFrazee's reply, according to testimony.​
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PF messages after he killed her ... Barf.
 
Seattle1 said:
Patrick Frazee claimed his fiancée told him to keep their daughter after 'heated' conversation | Daily Mail Online

Nov 14, 2019

Friend and former colleague Robert Hill was the only one with whom she shared the fact that she and Frazee had some difficulties.

Hill recalled: 'There was one conversation she said, ''Something really weird happened to me yesterday.'' She said a random lady had come over to her house with coffee.'

'I asked if she drank it she said no.'

ETA: Acknowledging this is coming from DM but they are reporting that KB did not drink the coffee.
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I've been waiting for this... it doesn't prove that KK did tamper with it, but if KB had told her friend, "Yes, I drank it all and felt fine" I would be more inclined to think KK hadn't tampered with or spiked it...
 
ajaylee said:
He told so many conflicting stories to so many people who didn't hang out with each other. I think because no one ever called him on his lies and conflicting stories, he honestly started to think he was invincible.

I wonder what RS is thinking now? Is he like CW's mother, still trying to deny the obvious? Or is realizing he, too, was completely suckered?

I honestly doubt that PF ever thought LE would track down so many people to whom he had told conflicting stories. If nothing else, it has to be clear to even the most ardent PF supporter that the guy is a first class liar.

More than ever, it makes me wonder what lying version of events he told his mother and sister. I wouldn't be surprised if he told SF that KB got pregnant to try and 'trap' him, that she was nothing more to him but a good time.
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I doubt RS was suckered, the body was on his ranch,then there's PF's truck that was at the autoshop. The "Forget we we're even here", picking up the package ensuring PF would not be seen on neighbor's camera. That to me screams accessory after the fact

MOO
 
ajaylee said:
She could have taken it during the cleanup.

Don't forget, the defense is not even willing to admit that the murder took place in the condo, and other than KK's word, we have no physical proof that KK did clean up the condo - or that there was a mess to cleanup.

The defense can hint at all sorts of preposterous inconsistent things that the prosecution can't disprove. I think the real defense strategy is to make this a 'he said, she said' case with hints of a possible mystery third person to explain away any obvious inconsistencies.

I'm kind of surprised the defense hasn't suggested that a mystery third person had both KB and PF's phones and was playing texting games to set PF up. After all, we don't actually have evidence to disprove this, do we?

It only takes one juror who feels sorry for PF and is willing to seize on one or two items to discredit the entire preponderance of evidence. It only takes one juror who has really already made up his/her mind and just wants an excuse to confirm their bias.

Look, I think the weight of the evidence is overwhelming, but we have at least one individual here who believes the DNA results from the stained hay bale and the tooth fragment are critical to the case. Those results aren't critical in my mind, but if they are important to one poster here, they may be equally important to a juror (or jurors). I don't see how the non-results can possibly invalidate or explain away all the other evidence, but some folks can.
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Well we have blood evidence in the condo and tons of wipe marks which support that there was a mess to clean up.
 
AgeofAquaruis said:
I doubt RS was suckered, the body was on his ranch,then there's PF's truck that was at the autoshop. The "Forget we we're even here", picking up the package ensuring PF would not be seen on neighbor's camera. That to me screams accessory after the fact

MOO
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I think RS was suckered. I suspect PF had fed him a steady line of BS about KB and he believed every word of it. When KB went 'missing', I think he thought she was a vindictive witch who was pulling a 'Gone, Girl' stunt or that a jealous former girlfriend had done the deed and that PF would be the first person to be suspected because the spouse/partner often is. I think he believed that poor PF was going to be railroaded and his actions were designed to help protect someone he genuinely believed to be the innocent victim of a hateful woman (or women).

I am curious (although we'll never know) what, if anything, RS knew about KK.
 
I wonder how PF is feeling right about now. As miserable as possible is my guess as well he should. He has to know he is most likely going to prison. Nothing pleases me more than to see those photos of him in his green and white jail uniform with his hands shackled, not sure about the feet. No more hookers becking at your door. No more baby K. Most people will abandon you. If he needs medicine for his tummy, he will wait till they get it to you and you take what they give. And him being a young person, just think about that sentence of life without parole. (If that is indeed his sentence). Gotcha!
 
afitzy said:
Patrick Frazee claimed his fiancée told him to keep their daughter after 'heated' conversation | Daily Mail Online

Quote from article:

Margaret Luce, a former client of Frazee who used his services as a farrier for her horses, took the stand to testify that Frazee had told her that Berreth 'did not want to be a mother,' and that she was 'unstable' and had threatened suicide.

Luce claimed that in a conversation after Berreth's disappearance Frazee had shared the fact that he had returned a gun to Berreth despite having concerns that she would 'hurt herself.'

She said: 'He said he didn't want her to have a gun because she might hurt herself... but she wanted the gun back and said that she was threatening to go to the police so he asked if he could try to sell it for her.'

When he couldn't get a good enough price, Luce said, Frazee told her he had returned the gun.

She said: 'I sort of wondered why he was telling me it.'

Later Luce tried to comfort Frazee with the comment: 'Perhaps Kelsey will come back.'

Frazee replied: 'Oh she's not coming back.' [BBM - @MassGuy think this one should be nominated for your 'Top 10 PF comments"].
Click to expand...
Adding: I am the all inclusive package.
 
ajaylee said:
I think RS was suckered. I suspect PF had fed him a steady line of BS about KB and he believed every word of it. When KB went 'missing', I think he thought she was a vindictive witch who was pulling a 'Gone, Girl' stunt or that a jealous former girlfriend had done the deed and that PF would be the first person to be suspected because the spouse/partner often is. I think he believed that poor PF was going to be railroaded and his actions were designed to help protect someone he genuinely believed to be the innocent victim of a hateful woman (or women).

I am curious (although we'll never know) what, if anything, RS knew about KK.
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I don't buy that. He clearly was covering up for PF. Why else would be bend over backeard to do all the things he did?
MOO.
 
ajaylee said:
I think RS was suckered. I suspect PF had fed him a steady line of BS about KB and he believed every word of it. When KB went 'missing', I think he thought she was a vindictive witch who was pulling a 'Gone, Girl' stunt or that a jealous former girlfriend had done the deed and that PF would be the first person to be suspected because the spouse/partner often is. I think he believed that poor PF was going to be railroaded and his actions were designed to help protect someone he genuinely believed to be the innocent victim of a hateful woman (or women).

I am curious (although we'll never know) what, if anything, RS knew about KK.
Click to expand...
ajaylee,
You said, "I think RS was suckered. I suspect PF had fed him a steady line of BS about KB..."
Yep!!!!!
He did it to every single human he met.
Aside from some truth with the welfare lady it was all lies lies lies lies!
Only person here suckered was Kelsey Berreth! No I take that back KB's daughter was the second one suckered!!
 
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