Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #116

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I recall the screencap as well.... a searcher who was in the water near the creek bank holding on to something in the branches, but I also have a fuzzy memory of a post here which debunked that theory.

JMO

Yes, in the video from the helicopter, in fact I posted it yesterday for reference, something is on the creek bank that could be clothing, maybe it was. That would have been too far up creek for it to be seen from the bridge. It was around a bend and not far from the CS, IIRC.

JMO
 
It can vary very slightly between the States, e.g. in some the age of the child must be under 17 whereas Indiana is 18, but otherwise they're all pretty much the same.

In my state is specifies “a detailed description of the child AND the abductor/vehicle for public broadcast”. If the abductor is in the car and not visible they need a description of the car. Makes sense. Unfortunately I got an amber alert on my phone today. It was not in my city, but within my state.
 
In my state is specifies “a detailed description of the child AND the abductor/vehicle for public broadcast”. If the abductor is in the car and not visible they need a description of the car. Makes sense. Unfortunately I got an amber alert on my phone today. It was not in my city, but within my state.
Is the Amber Alert ongoing?
 
Is the Amber Alert ongoing?

I think so. I don’t get alerts when they are cancelled so I googled it and didn’t see any update. When I googled it the other one this week (in my state, not my city) came up. Sad conclusion with that one.
 
I think so. I don’t get alerts when they are cancelled so I googled it and didn’t see any update. When I googled it the other one this week (in my state, not my city) came up. Sad conclusion with that one.
I ask because there might be a thread here. What is the child’s name?
 
The interview with Tobe posted earlier where he comments about the search. He states it was called off but then states that volunteers, firefighters, LE stayed and continued searching. So what exactly was the point of calling it off in the first place if the majority stayed anyway? Crazy.

The “official search” (on the clock) was called off, but he can’t tell people not to continue searching on their own time. Some of those people were probably in LE or firefighters and not all that responded were on duty - it’s a small town and they probably knew the family.
 
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The reason I think the vehicle question is so important in this case is that it makes you wonder how this man, once he left the Monon High Bridge trail area was then able to leave the surrounding area without a vehicle. This is probably why the main theory of the case has to do with the car parked at the old DCS building on CR 300. The man may have spent more time with Libby and Abby if police were not called until 5 pm and it was probably getting dark outside. The darkness probably helped him evade being seen.

Or the man walked back to his home from the Monon High Bridge trail. Or he walked to the closest place he could leave a vehicle, and because the street he took was not well traveled, he simply was not seen walking along the road.
 
Just how bad was it? What do you think? And how rageful this person might be? And if what you imply is right, how can they even allow him to walk the streets of Delphi? Or think there is no risk to anyone else?
I am not sure but man...my gut sure is telling me that the crime scene was bad. I mean, what did the detective mean when he said, "I assure you, the way you left them is not what they're experiencing today." I am thinking about a pretty horrific scene. MOO
 
T

* There's nobody on these trails, in Delphi or anywhere else. Give me the under, in terms of number of people who were supposedly there on February 13, 2017. I could post that again and again and it wouldn't be enough. I lived in Las Vegas for 24 years as a sports bettor. I know probability and value. Give me the under. It is pure propaganda to suggest we had a cavalry around ever corner, each with their own story and sighting.

Give me the under

.
Precisely. And that is why I find the story that there was a group of people there at drop off to be a particularly important clue.
 
Below is a RTV6 video taken from a helicopter during the early afternoon hours of Feb. 14th. I would imagine the area was cordoned off well for the search on Feb. 14h, by mid-morning a large search party met at the volunteer fire house in town, which was the base of operations for the search for the girls.

An FBI agent happens to live in that area, and was involved in the Feb. 13th search. The official FBI involvement would have started after the bodies were found on the 14th. ISP and local agencies would have been involved in the search efforts, looks like a lot of resources were put in to the efforts on the 14th.


Thanks for that video. I've seen it previously but now I have references for where everything is happening.

At 15:30 and then a more faraway view at 26:46 you can see that the Sanders home atop the ridge had a backdoor view of the creek area where the bodies were found. But it happens so quickly freeze framing is required.

Otherwise the main thing I took from the video is that the search crew in the water is considerably further downstream than I expected, or than most accounts of where the bodies were found would suggest. Maybe they went back and forth throughout that area and the helicopter cameras merely caught them when the search was further downstream, which means left closer to the beginning of the bridge.

Also the trees were noticeably thinner than during my recent visit, and the water noticeably deeper.

The video freezes several times for long stretches. That may be after the fact to leave out things they don't want you to see.

BTW, from the late overhead view I think I figured out why I got lost for an hour. It looks like I crossed a narrow tributary of Deer Creek and not Deer Creek itself. That's why I remained on the wrong side and had to traipse around until exiting west along State Road 25.
 
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Yes, these 2017 videos are considerably more interesting now that I've been there and know what I'm looking at. I strongly recommend freeze framing this video at 11:19 and again at 11:30. It is the same helicopter search video of February 14th, merely with the freeze sections removed. The video opens up larger if the title atop is clicked toward direct YouTube view. That also removes some graphic interference below:


That viewpoint is from the back of the bridge. At 11:19 you can see the bridge at left. The bodies location is basically perpendicular from the end of the bridge. So toward the bottom left of the screen at 11:19 but perhaps 15% inward and upward.

You can see what Bridge Guy is dealing with there. He is already on the east (right) side of Deer Creek. He is within the forest and can ascend toward the cemetery, not too far away. That is the manicured area at lower right on the screen. County Road 300 is right there, which he can take in either direction. If he goes left it is toward the drop off point and eventually reaches State Road 25 near top of the screen for an easy 60 mph getaway either east or west.

I would say parking near the cemetery is the single most logical plan for him. I'm not sure we have a report of a vehicle in that area. But again, given how low the population is and how few people are in a given spot at a given time, I'm not sure a lack of sighting means much of anything.

Preferred theory is that he parked near State Road 25 and the abandoned building. But from 11:19 freeze frame you can see that is way up yonder, and basically just off the screen to the top right. Barely this side of the highway and around the corner.

That's quite the hike, whether he remains with the forest partially or traipses in the open alongside County Road 300.

Lots of video in that section is good, including close ups of the cemetery.

Now fast forward to 11:30 freeze frame. The bodies are across the creek at right, almost exactly center screen (left to right) and maybe 40% upwards from bottom of screen. That open field at lower left center alongside the creek is the private home immediately beyond the bridge, the Sanders residence. I took photos from behind the bridge demonstrating that Abby and Libby could have bolted into the open lawn. I estimated 150 yards to the house itself. I think that looks close to accurate. This view provides best evidence that the home is tucked alongside the edge of the property just above the creek. That's why the Reddit poster who has visited the Sanders home several times insists that Bridge Guy took enormous risks, since the bodies location was visible from the back of the home.

Note the activity at lower left, all the cars. That is likely another private home, with search party members and/or law enforcement vehicles parked and already prioritizing the end of the bridge area.

That view at 11:30 demonstrates that Bridge Guy had many options, but east toward the cemetery was most likely, followed IMO by west and through the corridor under the bridge. He can remain in tree cover for quite a while if he loops west and back under the bridge. If he goes south (toward camera) he's got plenty of residences to deal with, and north is back toward the trail intersection itself.
 
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Yes, these 2017 videos are considerably more interesting now that I've been there and know what I'm looking at. I strongly recommend freeze framing this video at 11:19 and again at 11:30. It is the same helicopter search video of February 14th, merely with the freeze sections removed. The video opens up larger if the title atop is clicked toward direct YouTube view. That also removes some graphic interference below:


That viewpoint is from the back of the bridge. At 11:19 you can see the bridge at left. The bodies location is basically perpendicular from the end of the bridge. So toward the bottom left of the screen at 11:19 but perhaps 15% inward and upward.

You can see what Bridge Guy is dealing with there. He is already on the east (right) side of Deer Creek. He is within the forest and can ascend toward the cemetery, not too far away. That is the manicured area at lower right on the screen. County Road 300 is right there, which he can take in either direction. If he goes left it is toward the drop off point and eventually reaches State Road 25 near top of the screen for an easy 60 mph getaway either east or west.

I would say parking near the cemetery is the single most logical plan for him. I'm not sure we have a report of a vehicle in that area. But again, given how low the population is and how few people are in a given spot at a given time, I'm not sure a lack of sighting means much of anything.

Preferred theory is that he parked near State Road 25 and the abandoned building. But from 11:19 freeze frame you can see that is way up yonder, and basically just off the screen to the top right. Barely this side of the highway and around the corner.

That's quite the hike, whether he remains with the forest partially or traipses in the open alongside County Road 300.

Lots of video in that section is good, including close ups of the cemetery.

Now fast forward to 11:30 freeze frame. The bodies are across the creek at right, almost exactly center screen (left to right) and maybe 40% upwards from bottom of screen. That open field at lower left center alongside the creek is the private home immediately beyond the bridge, the Sanders residence. I took photos from behind the bridge demonstrating that Abby and Libby could have bolted into the open lawn. I estimated 150 yards to the house itself. I think that looks close to accurate. This view provides best evidence that the home is tucked alongside the edge of the property just above the creek. That's why the Reddit poster who has visited the Sanders home several times insists that Bridge Guy took enormous risks, since the bodies location was visible from the back of the home.

Note the activity at lower left, all the cars. That is likely another private home, with search party members and/or law enforcement vehicles parked and already prioritizing the end of the bridge area.

That view at 11:30 demonstrates that Bridge Guy had many options, but east toward the cemetery was most likely, followed IMO by west and through the corridor under the bridge. He can remain in tree cover for quite a while if he loops west and back under the bridge. If he goes south (toward camera) he's got plenty of residences to deal with, and north is back toward the trail intersection itself.
Great observations. Thanks for posting this
 
There are services that can provide mailing lists for very specific locations that even include demographic information.

I wonder how hard it would be to order a list like that for Delphi and whittle it down to the adult males that were 18-40 years old that have lived in Delphi the past ten years.

Statistically, the killer is most likely to have been in his twenties when he attacked Abby and Libby.

I just submitted the basic criteria to one of these companies
Delphi
male
18-40 years old
they said there were only 546 men that fit that criteria.

When you add criteria like interest for hunting, camping, hiking and narrow the age range down to 18-30 the list drops to 93 men. hmm....
 
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I am not sure but man...my gut sure is telling me that the crime scene was bad. I mean, what did the detective mean when he said, "I assure you, the way you left them is not what they're experiencing today." I am thinking about a pretty horrific scene. MOO

I think this phrase of DC was the most sincere in the heavily scripted text of the PC, and it was his own.

Tobe Lazenby, too, said that he was supported by his faith, in another interview.

Both men, as I assume, feel extreme sorrow for the girls, as well as guilt about the case not being solved.

So DC’s phrase, the way I understand it, is an attempt at self-consolation. Both girls are innocent victims, and they are in heaven.

I am not trying to make assumptions about the crime scene based on this phrase of DC. It is more about hope than anything else, maybe an attempt to shame the perpetrator. BTW, it would seem to me from DC’s monologue that he is addressing a young man.
 
It has been my opinion that BG departed through that cemetery. It is the logical point to get out of there without notice. Not necessarily parked there, but at minimum, picked up there, or close by.

One question that comes to mind is, did BG know Sanders' weren't home?

My opinion, the whole scenario is such that BG knew the girls were going to be there, knew the area, arrived shortly before, or after, they did, parked at the cemetery, and exited same.

My opinion, someone local, (a rat) speculate as you wish, drove investigators away from NBG, and toward OBG, early on.....meaning to me this was more than a single act by a lone perp. I believe there are several in collusion to cover up this crime, and I believe it to be a crime of retribution, or a crime committed to cover up other criminal activity involving persons of high status in the local community.
 
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