Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #6

[Eleanor Rigby]

@Peter Providence
Thank you for sharing this! Well worth watching! The information exposed in this video is extremely disturbing and raises a lot of troubling questions. I can't say I'm completely surprised, though. I've long questioned what is going on with certain ME's and LE dept.s when time and time again victims who do not have water in their lungs are proclaimed to have drowned. Likewise, when victims whose bodies have minimal decomposition--indicating recent death--are proclaimed to have accidentally fallen in the water and drowned months before their bodies are recovered, even in cases where ligature marks or other signs of foul play have been evident. ME's don't work for LE, but they do work together. I would love to see investigations similar to the one in Providence done in other cities that have clusters of "accidental drownings" of young men who "fall" into bodies of water after an evening at a bar. Boston, Pittsburg and Columbus, just to name three. I keep wondering if all these "drownings" are in some way, even loosely, connected. I am quite sure they are not ALL accidental drownings, nor the work of one or two serial killers. I fear something much more sinister is going on. I hope we can one day find out what it is. MOO.

 

[Peter Providence]

@Peter Providence
Thank you for sharing this! Well worth watching! The information exposed in this video is extremely disturbing and raises a lot of troubling questions. I can't say I'm completely surprised, though. I've long questioned what is going on with certain ME's and LE dept.s when time and time again victims who do not have water in their lungs are proclaimed to have drowned. Likewise, when victims whose bodies have minimal decomposition--indicating recent death--are proclaimed to have accidentally fallen in the water and drowned months before their bodies are recovered, even in cases where ligature marks or other signs of foul play have been evident. ME's don't work for LE, but they do work together. I would love to see investigations similar to the one in Providence done in other cities that have clusters of "accidental drownings" of young men who "fall" into bodies of water after an evening at a bar. Boston, Pittsburg and Columbus, just to name three. I keep wondering if all these "drownings" are in some way, even loosely, connected. I am quite sure they are not ALL accidental drownings, nor the work of one or two serial killers. I fear something much more sinister is going on. I hope we can one day find out what it is. MOO.

You're very welcome. This case has always struck a chord with me because it took place in my home town and we are of the same age and victimology. Around the time that this crime took place in Providence, I had been bartending in Boston on Beacon Hill and I commuted to and from Providence. I can remember being in boston walking to the parking garage to my car in the early hours after closing the bar around 3am and witnessing some strange behavior from random people/vehicles on numerous occasions, and even including the Police on some occasions. I feel like the same happens in Providence too.

 

[Peter Providence]

@Peter Providence
Thank you for sharing this! Well worth watching! The information exposed in this video is extremely disturbing and raises a lot of troubling questions. I can't say I'm completely surprised, though. I've long questioned what is going on with certain ME's and LE dept.s when time and time again victims who do not have water in their lungs are proclaimed to have drowned. Likewise, when victims whose bodies have minimal decomposition--indicating recent death--are proclaimed to have accidentally fallen in the water and drowned months before their bodies are recovered, even in cases where ligature marks or other signs of foul play have been evident. ME's don't work for LE, but they do work together. I would love to see investigations similar to the one in Providence done in other cities that have clusters of "accidental drownings" of young men who "fall" into bodies of water after an evening at a bar. Boston, Pittsburg and Columbus, just to name three. I keep wondering if all these "drownings" are in some way, even loosely, connected. I am quite sure they are not ALL accidental drownings, nor the work of one or two serial killers. I fear something much more sinister is going on. I hope we can one day find out what it is. MOO.

I find that in a number of these cases there is some sort of disturbance or altercation involving a bouncer and/or being escorted outside by a bouncer. Off the top of my head Greg Hart, Chris Jenkins, Walton Ward, Achim Bailey, and Zachary Marr are all cases that seem to fit this same pattern.

 

[Eleanor Rigby]

I find that in a number of these cases there is some sort of disturbance or altercation involving a bouncer and/or being escorted outside by a bouncer. Off the top of my head Greg Hart, Chris Jenkins, Walton Ward, Achim Bailey, and Zachary Marr are all cases that seem to fit this same pattern.

I agree that in so many of the cases the victim was separated from his associates by a bar employee, usually a bouncer. This seems particularly true in many of the more recent Boston cases, but, I believe, not as much so in earlier cases that were clustered in college towns in the upper Midwest.

I'm glad you didn't become a victim yourself, since you mentioned fitting the victimology. Do you think being a bar employee provided you protection, or maybe it's simply because you weren't intoxicated when leaving work?

I'm very curious about the strange behavior, including by police, that you witnessed numerous times in parking garages and wonder if any of it coincided with the disappearances of the men later found "drowned." I understand though that you may not want to discuss on a public forum what you witnessed. I suppose my first thought, based solely on your brief description, would be "drug deal." But what you saw must have looked stranger than that. Maybe something like the Dakota James incident (Pittsburgh) that his friend has related involving the SUV in front of the hotel a few weeks before he disappeared?

One of the aspects of Greg Hart's case, as reported in the video, that is most interesting is the accusation of police and ME corruption / collusion. Many people following these cases, as you know, have been questioning why LE and ME's almost everywhere have been classifying the deaths of young men, whose bodies are recovered from water after disappearing from bars, as "accidental drownings" when the evidence many times does not support it. At first, it seemed like laziness or incompetence, but after so much time and so much information has come to light, it seems to be something worse. In watching the Oxygen series on the Smiley Face Killers, I was struck by the resistance of LE and ME's to reopen cases and examine the new information and evidence uncovered by the detectives. I don't think it's only about resources and expense. MOO.

 

[Peter Providence]

I agree that in so many of the cases the victim was separated from his associates by a bar employee, usually a bouncer. This seems particularly true in many of the more recent Boston cases, but, I believe, not as much so in earlier cases that were clustered in college towns in the upper Midwest.

I'm glad you didn't become a victim yourself, since you mentioned fitting the victimology. Do you think being a bar employee provided you protection, or maybe it's simply because you weren't intoxicated when leaving work?

I'm very curious about the strange behavior, including by police, that you witnessed numerous times in parking garages and wonder if any of it coincided with the disappearances of the men later found "drowned." I understand though that you may not want to discuss on a public forum what you witnessed. I suppose my first thought, based solely on your brief description, would be "drug deal." But what you saw must have looked stranger than that. Maybe something like the Dakota James incident (Pittsburgh) that his friend has related involving the SUV in front of the hotel a few weeks before he disappeared?

One of the aspects of Greg Hart's case, as reported in the video, that is most interesting is the accusation of police and ME corruption / collusion. Many people following these cases, as you know, have been questioning why LE and ME's almost everywhere have been classifying the deaths of young men, whose bodies are recovered from water after disappearing from bars, as "accidental drownings" when the evidence many times does not support it. At first, it seemed like laziness or incompetence, but after so much time and so much information has come to light, it seems to be something worse. In watching the Oxygen series on the Smiley Face Killers, I was struck by the resistance of LE and ME's to reopen cases and examine the new information and evidence uncovered by the detectives. I don't think it's only about resources and expense. MOO.

Yea i think in many cases with LE and ME a lot of the reluctance to reinvestigate has more to do with saving face on their part. But i think in some cases that there is something more being concealed by the police. But I'd be happy to discuss anything here really or at least provide some incite into what the enviornment was like around beacon hill and the financial district in Boston during after hours. I worked at a spot on Cambridge st. from 2009-2015 and often commuted home during the very early hours of the morning, and as far as consuming alcohol on my part, it was very routine to have drinks with staff when closing up or even take shots with customers if they wanted to buy me a shot. Obviously i never worried about being drugged since i was pouring the drinks, but ive definitely had some odd interactions with patrons throughout the years and when i look back i probably should have been more aware of the environment at that time. Ive learned to use better judgement over the years after having served alcohol to so many different characters, with lots of learning experiences in drunk behavior and just being in that particular city. I definitely wouldn't say its a dangerous area by any means, Beacon Hill is one of the more desirable areas of the city. It's close to the gov't center area of downtown and north station, so theres a decent amount of foot traffic and activity most of them time. That being said, in the early hours after 3am during the winter time, the streets can be surprisingly quiet and desolate. Its almost kind of nice to see, but it can be eery too, especially now that i look back at it all. But anyway, these kinds of nights have the right conditions where an abduction could take place most easily, especially around the neighboorhood of old streets near the Massachusetts state house and the parking garages within that same vicinity. Ive witnessed vans driving slowly along the sidewalk, people sleeping in parked vans, ive walked by strange parked vans that looked empty, but then as I walk past the van ill hear whispering in the van, or rolling up or down of the windows as i walk by. As far as interactions with cops, i will say there seems to be an overall lack of police presence in those areas late at night, the few interactions i have experienced with the police have been with the transit police and on a few occasions ive observed these cops driving recklessly inside of parking garages. Some weird memories that I really hadnt thought about until recent years.

 

[Eleanor Rigby]

Yea i think in many cases with LE and ME a lot of the reluctance to reinvestigate has more to do with saving face on their part. But i think in some cases that there is something more being concealed by the police. But I'd be happy to discuss anything here really or at least provide some incite into what the enviornment was like around beacon hill and the financial district in Boston during after hours. I worked at a spot on Cambridge st. from 2009-2015 and often commuted home during the very early hours of the morning, and as far as consuming alcohol on my part, it was very routine to have drinks with staff when closing up or even take shots with customers if they wanted to buy me a shot. Obviously i never worried about being drugged since i was pouring the drinks, but ive definitely had some odd interactions with patrons throughout the years and when i look back i probably should have been more aware of the environment at that time. Ive learned to use better judgement over the years after having served alcohol to so many different characters, with lots of learning experiences in drunk behavior and just being in that particular city. I definitely wouldn't say its a dangerous area by any means, Beacon Hill is one of the more desirable areas of the city. It's close to the gov't center area of downtown and north station, so theres a decent amount of foot traffic and activity most of them time. That being said, in the early hours after 3am during the winter time, the streets can be surprisingly quiet and desolate. Its almost kind of nice to see, but it can be eery too, especially now that i look back at it all. But anyway, these kinds of nights have the right conditions where an abduction could take place most easily, especially around the neighboorhood of old streets near the Massachusetts state house and the parking garages within that same vicinity. Ive witnessed vans driving slowly along the sidewalk, people sleeping in parked vans, ive walked by strange parked vans that looked empty, but then as I walk past the van ill hear whispering in the van, or rolling up or down of the windows as i walk by. As far as interactions with cops, i will say there seems to be an overall lack of police presence in those areas late at night, the few interactions i have experienced with the police have been with the transit police and on a few occasions ive observed these cops driving recklessly inside of parking garages. Some weird memories that I really hadnt thought about until recent years.

I agree that LE and ME's (like most people) don't want to admit to any mistakes in their investigations and examinations. However, in so many cases all across the country, there seems to have been a rush to declare these cases accidents right from the get-go, and not do thorough investigation or examination, even in the face of contradictory evidence and protests from parents. After reading about so many of them, it seems like there is some kind of pressure from higher up to write off these cases as accidents. But why? What would be the motive to ignore signs of possible foul play? I know it sounds like "conspiracy theory" nonsense, but the pattern is undeniable, IMO.

Thank you for the details of what you experienced in Boston back in your bartending days. It does seem vans are possibly involved in many of these "accidental drownings." I also found Elise Soper's 2016 two-part blog post on "Boston's Mysterious Vanishing Men" very interesting.

I followed Zachary Marr's case on WS from his disappearance until the recovery of his body, and later Elise wrote about retracing his steps that night. I found Zach's case one of the strangest I've followed. His family said it was an accident, many WSer's think it was a suicide prompted by his grandmother's recent passing. I really can't wrap my head around either of those, but at the same time, I don't have a plausible theory of what could have happened, but the bizarreness of it makes it seem nefarious. Of course, no information has been released by LE or family. There is reportedly video of him "entering" the water, but no information on how. I'm very curious about who he was talking to on his phone as he walked away from in front of the market. His cousin, who he was supposed to have been waiting for, said they communicated by text and SnapChat, so apparently he wasn't on a voice call with her. MOO.

As you're familiar with the bar scene and the city late at night, I'm curious about what you think may have happened to Zachary. TIA.

 

[Peter Providence]

I agree that LE and ME's (like most people) don't want to admit to any mistakes in their investigations and examinations. However, in so many cases all across the country, there seems to have been a rush to declare these cases accidents right from the get-go, and not do thorough investigation or examination, even in the face of contradictory evidence and protests from parents. After reading about so many of them, it seems like there is some kind of pressure from higher up to write off these cases as accidents. But why? What would be the motive to ignore signs of possible foul play? I know it sounds like "conspiracy theory" nonsense, but the pattern is undeniable, IMO.

Thank you for the details of what you experienced in Boston back in your bartending days. It does seem vans are possibly involved in many of these "accidental drownings." I also found Elise Soper's 2016 two-part blog post on "Boston's Mysterious Vanishing Men" very interesting.

I followed Zachary Marr's case on WS from his disappearance until the recovery of his body, and later Elise wrote about retracing his steps that night. I found Zach's case one of the strangest I've followed. His family said it was an accident, many WSer's think it was a suicide prompted by his grandmother's recent passing. I really can't wrap my head around either of those, but at the same time, I don't have a plausible theory of what could have happened, but the bizarreness of it makes it seem nefarious. Of course, no information has been released by LE or family. There is reportedly video of him "entering" the water, but no information on how. I'm very curious about who he was talking to on his phone as he walked away from in front of the market. His cousin, who he was supposed to have been waiting for, said they communicated by text and SnapChat, so apparently he wasn't on a voice call with her. MOO.

As you're familiar with the bar scene and the city late at night, I'm curious about what you think may have happened to Zachary. TIA.

That case was very mind boggling and again with the shady police dept. reports of him allegedly entering the water i dont buy it. I really feel that most of these incidents that have occurred in cities could not have been carried out without the use of a van. With a van you are able to bring several accomplices, you can swiftly pull up alongside a victim, slide open the door, over power him into the van, slide the door shut and go. And it can be done in seconds without anyone noticing. It doesn't seem like there would be any other more logical way to make somebody disappear from off the street without a trace like in the cases of michael kelleher, william hurley or zach marr. As far as police ties with all of this, i have a suspicion that the disposal of bodies in water in an effort to make it appear an accidental drowning may have its origins in police cover ups because of the convenient plausibility that this determination would yield amidst a lazy police force, and over time the use of this disposal method may have come to be like a sort of unspoken code of understanding that has spread beyond corrupt police and over time been adopted by other nefarious outlets.

 

[Peter Providence]

Interesting. It seems quarries are popular body disposal sites in some areas.

Below is from an article that mentions the bodies of two male college students found in a quarry in Wisconsin, and possibly linked to the "River Deaths" in Wisconsin university towns because the circumstances were so similar.

What?s behind deaths of two in Whitewater quarry?

What?s behind deaths of two in Whitewater quarry?

• 
  
  
  • Greg Peck
  • Aug 7, 2012

"The bodies of two UW-Whitewater students have been found below a quarry’s north rim in the past 14 months. Mark J. Wegener, 20, was found dead May 30, 2011. Edgerton High School graduate Benjamin R. Fuder, 21, was found Sunday, July 29.

The quarry is just outside the city limits and about a mile from where both students were last seen while reportedly out partying in early-morning hours.

Some UW-Whitewater students are terrified. They think a killer is loose and fear being the next victim.

Likewise, some people believe serial killers are behind the river drownings of so many young adults in La Crosse in recent years."

It seems likely to me that those two particular deaths may have been linked. As for being connected to the other "river deaths" its hard to speculate. I often find it difficult to believe that even those "river deaths" were all necessarily linked. I dont believe that any of those deaths were the result of accidental drownings, but i find it equally hard to believe that they were all interconnected through the same perpetrator or outlet of perpetrators and accomplices. I think these men in Wisconsin were homicide victims of of a few different groups of predators that although not affiliated with one another, were probably working in close proximity to each other around the same years. Because of the allure of the high density of drunk college kids in that area, this may have made the area a hotspot hunting grounds for a time. I feel like this modus operandi has been in use by a lot more people than we may think. This is why i find the sfk theory over the top. Aside from the point of view that the smiley connection is nothing more than a copy cat m.o. thats been re-committed by several unconnected predators who have caught on to this method. This is why this phoenomen can be so misleading because it perpetuates absurd connections through a symbol while at the same time inviting other predators to adopt the method thus making this over sensationalized symbol mean something that it other wise would not have been utilized for had it not been ovet sensationalized in the first place.

 

[Peter Providence]

Any super sleuths know how to check the glassblowing school building for graffiti? (Other than taking a field trip.) Although, if there are rocks or trees "in the brush" there, graffiti could be on those. I know nothing about the area, but for those who do, does the location where his body was found sound like a route / short cut a young man would take to get home or somewhere in the neighborhood?

Police Find Missing Teen Maximillian Carbone But It's Too Late
Maximillian Carbone was found this morning in the brush behind a Roxbury glassblowing school. A school manager said three of Carbone's classmates Saturday had tracked his phone to the area of the school. http://bos.gl/qaa5CoK

Was there ghb found in his autopsy? I get the feeling this death could have likely been accidental.

 

[Eleanor Rigby]

Was there ghb found in his autopsy? I get the feeling this death could have likely been accidental.

Below is the most recent article I've been able to find. "No signs of foul play"--so difficult for me to know what to believe because that seems to be what BPD states in nearly all cases of young college-age men found dead without obvious signs of having suffered a violent attack. That said, I agree that this case does have fewer similarities to many of the other cases in which the victims were found in a body of water after leaving a bar. I'm glad that the investigation was still ongoing as of April 14th. MOO.
Wentworth community remembers 19-year-old Max Carbone - The Huntington News
Detectives from the Boston Police Department, or BPD, currently believe the circumstances of his death show no signs of foul play, though their investigation is still ongoing.

 

[Peter Providence]

Below is the most recent article I've been able to find. "No signs of foul play"--so difficult for me to know what to believe because that seems to be what BPD states in nearly all cases of young college-age men found dead without obvious signs of having suffered a violent attack. That said, I agree that this case does have fewer similarities to many of the other cases in which the victims were found in a body of water after leaving a bar. I'm glad that the investigation was still ongoing as of April 14th. MOO.
Wentworth community remembers 19-year-old Max Carbone - The Huntington News
Detectives from the Boston Police Department, or BPD, currently believe the circumstances of his death show no signs of foul play, though their investigation is still ongoing.

Yea it's pretty hard to tell with law enforcement these days. There may very well have been foul play involved in Max Carbone's death, who knows, but if the investigation is still ongoing, then it's possible that the BPD could actually be putting in a thorough effort this time. This would give me all the more reason to believe that if this is a homicide case, that it is most likely unrelated to the modus operandi being discussed in this forum. Because if there's one thing we know, it's that police do not seem to go near any case related to this pheonomenon.

 

[Hatfield]

Just read back through a lot of the posts about the Smiley Face Killers and I do think some of the cases are definitely related and some are not.

JMO
The one thing I read which I tend to agree with is there could be a traveling group as part of their job that could be involved in some of the killings. A traveling theatre group could be one such group that may have had a small set of their employees that came up with their plan to add sick excitement to their lives as they get stuck in certain large cities for maybe weeks at a time.

They may have started to do this with just joking around about it and as time went on and their lives became very boring in their off-time being stuck in major cities where bar hopping was about their only entertainment. Almost like it was just a sick fantasy at first as they may have joked about wanting to kill certain young college kids out having a good time while they were a little older and resented the young kids being silly at the bars. Once they actually committed their first murder and got away with it, then they decided they needed a "sign" or something to be left at the scene to get credit for the killings as they did them in different cities wherever their tour group would be stuck at. Thus, the smiley face spray painted signs became their "thing".

It would explain some of the same sort of killings happening in different major cities. A tour group of some sort like a Dinner Theatre acting group or an outdoor theatre acting group like Shakepeare in the Park was mentioned somewhere I had read. Especially if an acting tour group was performing any sort of play that involved acting out a murder. The "murder" theme of what they were doing may have played a part in how it developed into real life murder.

For the cases that we suspect are really linked to the SFK it would be interesting to see if we can find out if any sort of touring group of performers was in that city at the time of the first day of disappearance. That may be one thing to pursue.

Of course it would not account for all the cases because most of us agree not all are related and I am pretty sure there would be some copy cat killers too where they painted the smiley face to throw off LE to think it was tied to the "other real smiley face" group.

And of course some are real accidents too so it makes it difficult to tie in which cases could be attributed to the main group that really did become a serial killer group of about 4-5 people. They have probably swore to secrecy within their group and that would explain why no leaks or admissions came out from the real group of SFKs.

And I suspect as the killings became more news worthy these original SFK group probably agreed to stop altogether because they knew they had been very close to getting caught.

When listening to the stories of the couple survivors who feel they were targeted but survived and ended up near water , there is enough detail provided that they seem very genuine to me and I think they really did encounter the SFKs and are lucky to be alive.

Those are my thoughts so far about this case and I do hope some of the unsolved cases can someday be solved.

 

[Indy Anna]

Just read back through a lot of the posts about the Smiley Face Killers and I do think some of the cases are definitely related and some are not.

JMO
The one thing I read which I tend to agree with is there could be a traveling group as part of their job that could be involved in some of the killings. A traveling theatre group could be one such group that may have had a small set of their employees that came up with their plan to add sick excitement to their lives as they get stuck in certain large cities for maybe weeks at a time.

They may have started to do this with just joking around about it and as time went on and their lives became very boring in their off-time being stuck in major cities where bar hopping was about their only entertainment. Almost like it was just a sick fantasy at first as they may have joked about wanting to kill certain young college kids out having a good time while they were a little older and resented the young kids being silly at the bars. Once they actually committed their first murder and got away with it, then they decided they needed a "sign" or something to be left at the scene to get credit for the killings as they did them in different cities wherever their tour group would be stuck at. Thus, the smiley face spray painted signs became their "thing".

It would explain some of the same sort of killings happening in different major cities. A tour group of some sort like a Dinner Theatre acting group or an outdoor theatre acting group like Shakepeare in the Park was mentioned somewhere I had read. Especially if an acting tour group was performing any sort of play that involved acting out a murder. The "murder" theme of what they were doing may have played a part in how it developed into real life murder.

For the cases that we suspect are really linked to the SFK it would be interesting to see if we can find out if any sort of touring group of performers was in that city at the time of the first day of disappearance. That may be one thing to pursue.

Of course it would not account for all the cases because most of us agree not all are related and I am pretty sure there would be some copy cat killers too where they painted the smiley face to throw off LE to think it was tied to the "other real smiley face" group.

And of course some are real accidents too so it makes it difficult to tie in which cases could be attributed to the main group that really did become a serial killer group of about 4-5 people. They have probably swore to secrecy within their group and that would explain why no leaks or admissions came out from the real group of SFKs.

And I suspect as the killings became more news worthy these original SFK group probably agreed to stop altogether because they knew they had been very close to getting caught.

When listening to the stories of the couple survivors who feel they were targeted but survived and ended up near water , there is enough detail provided that they seem very genuine to me and I think they really did encounter the SFKs and are lucky to be alive.

Those are my thoughts so far about this case and I do hope some of the unsolved cases can someday be solved.

Interesting theory. It got me thinking. Instead of multiple killers belonging to a single travelling group, and acting together, might there be individual killers linked by an Internet fantasy website on the dark web? That would explain why similar deaths occur throughout the country. Some may even travel to college communities further from home on their days off from work to lure victims to their deaths, or do so while travelling for work or on vacation. They could share their fantasies and experiences with each other online, which would account for the similarities in the deaths. Just a thought.

 

[Daphne1972]

I noticed that a lot have the same square faces. For what's it worth.

 

[EWOKfett]

Interesting theory. It got me thinking. Instead of multiple killers belonging to a single travelling group, and acting together, might there be individual killers linked by an Internet fantasy website on the dark web? That would explain why similar deaths occur throughout the country. Some may even travel to college communities further from home on their days off from work to lure victims to their deaths, or do so while travelling for work or on vacation. They could share their fantasies and experiences with each other online, which would account for the similarities in the deaths. Just a thought.

This got me thinking about Brady Oestrike , he met his known victims through craigslist in 2014. LE does not believe he had any other victims, but I think his MO suggests he has done this before. A map found in his basement was marked with pins. Do the points on the map match up with any other crimes?
https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/2016/11/60_craigslist_killer_crime_sce.html

Here are some other possible connections that I have been pondering:

Brady Oestrike purchased a home within 2 miles of the workplace of Todd Geib while he was employed there. Working for the power company, he could have been working in the orchard/lake area which is very private, but also crisscrossed with power lines that go right along lake Ovidhall. This could explain how he knew about the lake, although he wasn't from the area. Brady kept his vicitims in a dog crate which would explain why there are no signs of biding or restraints. Oestrike had prescription medications in the crime scene photos, could he be the source of the antidepressants? Maybe they would not be prescribed at the same time, but usually patients try more than one medication before they find one that works. This could explain why he had 2. Utility workers sometimes carry orange marking spray paint. Seeing a utility truck pulled off the road in any location near power lines doesn't look suspicious.

Any thoughts or does anyone know of evidence that could rule him out or ?

 

[Crazyjster]

This got me thinking about Brady Oestrike , he met his known victims through craigslist in 2014. LE does not believe he had any other victims, but I think his MO suggests he has done this before. A map found in his basement was marked with pins. Do the points on the map match up with any other crimes?
60 Craigslist killer crime scene photos

Here are some other possible connections that I have been pondering:

Brady Oestrike purchased a home within 2 miles of the workplace of Todd Geib while he was employed there. Working for the power company, he could have been working in the orchard/lake area which is very private, but also crisscrossed with power lines that go right along lake Ovidhall. This could explain how he knew about the lake, although he wasn't from the area. Brady kept his vicitims in a dog crate which would explain why there are no signs of biding or restraints. Oestrike had prescription medications in the crime scene photos, could he be the source of the antidepressants? Maybe they would not be prescribed at the same time, but usually patients try more than one medication before they find one that works. This could explain why he had 2. Utility workers sometimes carry orange marking spray paint. Seeing a utility truck pulled off the road in any location near power lines doesn't look suspicious.

Any thoughts or does anyone know of evidence that could rule him out or ?

I don't think the Craigslist killer had one victim...I agree with you there, but I don't know if there is proof any of the people used Craigslist for services that we know of or if that info is available to link some of the cases...I know in other cases they would be completely unrelated most likely however it did make me think of a couple other "Craigslist killer" cases and that might be something completely different to look at...there might be some connection that way or the case with Glieb may have just been good timing and may have been wrongly categorized on one killers part...I don't know.

What both ideas might in common is the dark web as a way groups share information to replicate crime scenes to make it look connected...and maybe actually connect them with evidence...and have people/groups working togeather in several places throughout the country. The groups may actually be geogrphically close enough to one another to help one another moving evidence out of juristictions and even having the crimes themselves take place over multiple jurisdictions since they (in most cases) seem to take place over a significant time period.

 

[JohnnyChicago]

The John and Michael Carr connections to Berkowitz are fascinating. I forget exactly how they died, but both Carr brothers were murdered/died suspicious deaths.
I believe in the multiple shooter theory. Maury Terry's book has some pretty interesting points. I'll have to revisit it soon and post some quotes on the matter.
I also think the killers had knowledge of and used the underground tunnel system.

 

[thisplane]

I also grew up around a lake that has a lake path around the entire lake. My friends have told stories how they have walked miles on the lake path hammered drunk to get back home. I have seen them covered in mud and everything from a long trek on a narrow lake path at night. They never fell in the water and there is no history of anybody falling into the water even though it has been traveled many times by drunks choosing to walk home rather than drive.

 

[thisplane]

It could also be like a uber driver driving from city to city driving for uber. He could easily say "we're going to pick up another party before we drop you off OK?" And then some how the driver takes him to a location where a person or several people he thinks will be jumping in the car open the door and pull him out and take him to their location or they transfer the victim to a van where they take him to their location. The uber driver probably drives a SUV or BMW like I said and makes enough money to check into a hotel at night but is coming and going from heavily populated areas like universities and college towns.

 

[Peter Providence]

Body Found Along American River Bike Trail, Police Say

Alex Holden, missing son of 2 Greene County judges, found deceased