OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #51

[Fight4justice]

This is why I believe that Billy is the one talking to LE, because the investigators know where to look last week also FW probably wants him to save his skin first than worry about the grandkids last, JMO

Wow! That is what I always assumed. I figured BW was FW’s favorite and that GW favored him and probably a lot of his characteristics and mannerisms, My opinion JW favors his mom and probably a lot of her characteristics and mannerisms, so JW reminds FW of AW. Therefore I think GW is the favored grandson. I say FW will have BW make a statement exonerating himself and GW of the murders but maybe accessory after the fact, and put all blame on JW and AW. She can’t save all 4 so she going to save her 2 favorites. Sacrifice one grandson for the favored grandson, sacrifice one daughter-in-law for a favored son. My opinion only.

 

[Betty P]

I thought the same thing about FWs case now look the charges where dropped and it waisted the tax payer money, JMO

No, its not the same, though that's what the defense would like you to believe. Proof of forgery is a crime. It's not difficult to prove and the state has the evidence.

That said, I wish they hadn't bothered to try to go after FW and RN on these minor charges before trying the killers. The prosecution's strategy may have been to take them to trial to force them to make a deal, provide some additional evidence or testimony against the killers.

But these people are not normal, they're deranged criminals who are proud of who they are. They're a bunch of violent, amoral sociopaths who have spent most of lives swindling, cheating and victimizing others and see themselves as superior to law abiding, normal people. They were never going to deal with the prosecution, but instead are trying to use their crooked attorneys to play dirty tricks to discredit the courts and LE.

They revealed themselves to be deranged, arrogant criminals when RN addressed the court in such an insulting, menacing way. It showed when FW does interviews and insults the judge and law enforcement. So, maybe the state should have saved their cases for after the murder trials. IDK. All six of these criminals are going to keep appealing their cases as long as we taxpayers keep footing the bill, so their dirty tricks will continue as long as they draw breath.

 

[Betty P]

Wow! That is what I always assumed. I figured BW was FW’s favorite and that GW favored him and probably a lot of his characteristics and mannerisms, My opinion JW favors his mom and probably a lot of her characteristics and mannerisms, so JW reminds FW of AW. Therefore I think GW is the favored grandson. I say FW will have BW make a statement exonerating himself and GW of the murders but maybe accessory after the fact, and put all blame on JW and AW. She can’t save all 4 so she going to save her 2 favorites. Sacrifice one grandson for the favored grandson, sacrifice one daughter-in-law for a favored son. My opinion only.

I noticed in a recent quote from FW, she only said her children were not guilty. Not here daughter in law or grandkids.

What a horrible thing, if true. Throwing your kids/grandkids under the bus. Wagner family values?

IDK, it's hard to imagine the Wags wouldn't want to keep fighting LE, prosecution and the courts that they hate so much. They have so much contempt for their victims and feel so justified in killing them, I can't imagine they want to admit what they did and ask for mercy from the court.

As religious fanatics, the W's only answer to God. They believe God approved of their plan to kill the Rhoden family. They were on a religious mission, remember, to kill a family they thought of as a pestilence on the community. Just like the movie.

 

[Puzzles8]

RN is reported having worked as a teacher. If so, how does she not qualify for better retirement? Or was she not a real teacher, but maybe a teacher's aide or something? Most teachers I know retire with a pretty good pension.

She might not had enough years in a public school system to be completely vested.
She also might have worked for a private school. They are not part of a state pension system.

 

[Johnny B Bad]

No, its not the same, though that's what the defense would like you to believe. Proof of forgery is a crime. It's not difficult to prove and the state has the evidence.

That said, I wish they hadn't bothered to try to go after FW and RN on these minor charges before trying the killers. The prosecution's strategy may have been to take them to trial to force them to make a deal, provide some additional evidence or testimony against the killers.

But these people are not normal, they're deranged criminals who are proud of who they are. They're a bunch of violent, amoral sociopaths who have spent most of lives swindling, cheating and victimizing others and see themselves as superior to law abiding, normal people. They were never going to deal with the prosecution, but instead are trying to use their crooked attorneys to play dirty tricks to discredit the courts and LE.

They revealed themselves to be deranged, arrogant criminals when RN addressed the court in such an insulting, menacing way. It showed when FW does interviews and insults the judge and law enforcement. So, maybe the state should have saved their cases for after the murder trials. IDK. All six of these criminals are going to keep appealing their cases as long as we taxpayers keep footing the bill, so their dirty tricks will continue as long as they draw breath.

They have lived a very good life off the tax payers back , Billy was on SSI at a very young age, Angela stated in the bankruptcy documents their income was $500 a month Billy’s SSI and her drawing SNAP program $300 per month but intern they drove nice farm trucks, Angela had a SUV diesel, also they had (4) four wheelers nice guns, a new farm, nice clothes, also it took a lot of money to feed all the animals they where trying to sell, I would love to see what Jake & George’s income was, it cost a lot of money to operate your own 18 wheeler, that why I believe there is a higher power than FW backing this crew! JMO

 

[Loomis124]

Journal Entry denying State of Ohio's Motion to Continue (postpone) Trial.....

Dropbox - DMS_dkt_File.pdf - Simplify your life

As overly fair with the Defense side as the Judge has been, and now to do this to the State, makes me wonder bad things. Does anyone think if the roles here were reversed, that Judge Deering would have made the same decision? I sure think not. IMO, he has been biased against the State all along. All just my opinion.

 

[Betty P]

I use to think about Hell was going to be full of bad people but now I think it’s going to have a lot of attorneys in! JMO

We're probably in for some more drama with this Bruce Dailey character, too. IIRC, he's the attorney who was disbarred in Texas before moving to Ohio to hang out his shingle. He probably admires that other shady Texas lawyer "Racehorse Haynes".

Richard Haynes (lawyer) - Wikipedia

If Dailey was disbarred in Texas of all places, how good is the "evidence" he has that will supposedly exonerate RN?

ETA: Here's a great example of how Haynes worked (from Wiki link above):

"Say you sue me because you claim my dog bit you. Well now, this is my defense: My dog doesn't bite. And second, in the alternative, my dog was tied up that night. And third, I don't believe you really got bit. And fourth, I don't have a dog."

See, this is why you don't automatically believe anything a defense attorney says.

Alternative pleading

Alternative pleading - Wikipedia

Alternative pleading (or pleading in the alternative) is the legal term[1][2] in the law of the United States for a form of pleading that permits a party in a court action to argue multiple possibilities that may be mutually exclusive by making use of legal fiction.

A pleading in the alternative sets forth multiple claims or defenses either hypothetically or alternatively, such that if one of the claims or defenses are held invalid or insufficient, the other claims or defenses should still have to be answered.

 

[Betty P]

As overly fair with the Defense side as the Judge has been, and now to do this to the State, makes me wonder bad things. Does anyone think if the roles here were reversed, that Judge Deering would have made the same decision? I sure think not. IMO, he has been biased against the State all along. All just my opinion.

Maybe Deering is trying to be fair, but he's spent so many years catering to the "Boss Hoggs" of Pike County, that it's a hard habit to break. He's used to putting his thumb on the scale for the wealthy and powerful folks of Pike County - everyone does from LE to prosecutors to judges. It's the way of their world. Thats why the county has so many problems, same as others in the region.

I hope that's not the case. Maybe he chose to overrule the continuance because he sees the defense attorney trying to derail the trial altogether by pushing it into the Thanksgiving holiday season, then blaming it on the court.

 

[rsd1200]

Rita only waived her right to speedy trial temporarily according to her attorney.
Also, according to Gerlach:

"..Rita is still entitled to a speedy trial regardless of statutory time limits.
Since she only agreed to waive time during the time of the original continuance, time is almost up to try this case.."

Defendants can waive speedy trial but there are still usually time limits. GW4 waived his speedy trial on 11/28/18 and it was going to expire in the fall of 2019 so Junk said they had to schedule his trial by September 4th, which they did. Then GW4 waived his speedy trial a 2nd time on 7/24/19 and his trial date is still to be determined.

Jake waived his speedy trial on 11/27/18 and then he waived his speedy trial a 2nd time on 9/17/19 to be in effect through 1/31/21.

She'll probably waive it again. It's probably in her best interests.

 

[OhioBlues]

She did say that but no attorney's name was ever given so there was never anyway to confirm that statement was true..

Jake Wagner and his mother have repeatedly told The Enquirer there was no custody battle for Sophia. Rather they said they were working with a Pike County lawyer in the weeks before the homicides to formalize a verbal shared custody arrangement in which the couple alternated weeks with Sophia.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...ssacre-who-get-custody-5-year-old/2056207002/

BBM

 

[Johnny B Bad]

Wouldn’t it be a conflict of interest for Judge Deering to be on the Rhodens murders case, because of his past with the Wagners family?

 

[OhioBlues]

This article includes the Court's response. The documents are all in Scribd.

Judge denies state’s motion to delay Rita Newcomb trial

 

[Betty P]

Jake Wagner and his mother have repeatedly told The Enquirer there was no custody battle for Sophia. Rather they said they were working with a Pike County lawyer in the weeks before the homicides to formalize a verbal shared custody arrangement in which the couple alternated weeks with Sophia.

Rhoden family massacre: Arrests throw child custody issue back to Ohio courts

BBM

That news only came out to the public after the W's were arrested. Why would you pay an attorney to work out a "verbal shared custody arrangement" if the couple had such a friendly relationship? Still waiting to find out when JW picked up S before the murders. We've heard 2 versions of that story from JW.

 

[Betty P]

I don't recall ANY reference to a formal custody inquiry on either side. In fact I thought all comments/information known was that they just had an agreement and there was "no fight" over custody per what I've seen and heard about from the Wagners'.

The "custody papers" Rita is accused of Forging are the ones that were written 3 weeks before the murder. In the event of death .....

This is what I recall.

• the timeline and evidence logs show the W's started planning the murders in January 2016.
  
• W's allegedly forged guardianship documents 3 weeks before the murders
• the documents were allegedly prepared by this Texas attorney Bruce Dailey

What did BD know and when did he know it? Is he the same attorney who handled JW's custody case after he murdered the Rhoden family? Did he suspect anything at all about JW's involvement in the murders? JMO, he should have suspected something after the rage-filled murders. If he had a lot of experience in family law, he would have some idea how angry JW was with his custody battle.

 

[Ann99]

They have lived a very good life off the tax payers back , Billy was on SSI at a very young age, Angela stated in the bankruptcy documents their income was $500 a month Billy’s SSI and her drawing SNAP program $300 per month but intern they drove nice farm trucks, Angela had a SUV diesel, also they had (4) four wheelers nice guns, a new farm, nice clothes, also it took a lot of money to feed all the animals they where trying to sell, I would love to see what Jake & George’s income was, it cost a lot of money to operate your own 18 wheeler, that why I believe there is a higher power than FW backing this crew! JMO

I’m feeling confused. If this turns out to be incorrect info. Pls ask that it be deleted.
I have to go out this evening and can’t follow up until later. This relates to income.

GEORGE Wagner Jr. - that would be the father of George III and husband of Frederika, right?
Take a look at this. Pike County Ohio Farm subsidies. It’s a difficult site to navigate.
George Wagner Jr. is # 14. Info spans 24 yers

Farm Subsidies PikeCounty Ohio

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database

See #14

Click on name for details.

USDA subsidy information for George Wagner Jr
George Wagner Jr received payments totaling $683,898 from 1995 through 2019
****
Does this make sense?

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Pretty sure that means the victims families don'r wear any type of clothing that mentions justice for the victims

And the accused family can't wear clothes with messages scrawled all over them either.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

But she did notarize them.....

If she put her stamp on them, she could have been hedging her bets. If caught, she can say, I didn't do that. They must've got ahold of my stamp. If not caught, she can later sign. Just a thought.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I was just reading the court docket for the upcoming trial. Well, from what I see (and IANAL) if I’m reading this correctly, it looks like Defense just gave their discovery requested by the state earlier and Defense just provided it on 11/13. To me it looks like Defense drug their feet until now so the state couldn’t have time to review then Defense claims they don’t want to extend the trial due to right to speedy trial. Seems underhanded to me. Jmo

Very underhanded!

 

[Puzzles8]

I’m feeling confused. If this turns out to be incorrect info. Pls ask that it be deleted.
I have to go out this evening and can’t follow up until later. This relates to income.

GEORGE Wagner Jr. - that would be the father of George III and husband of Frederika, right?
Take a look at this. Pike County Ohio Farm subsidies. It’s a difficult site to navigate.
George Wagner Jr. is # 14. Info spans 24 yers

Farm Subsidies PikeCounty Ohio

EWG's Farm Subsidy Database

See #14

Click on name for details.

USDA subsidy information for George Wagner Jr
George Wagner Jr received payments totaling $683,898 from 1995 through 2019
****
Does this make sense?

GWWjr (the II, Fred's husband) received the government farm subsidies because he owned the land.

His son, Billy, AKA GWWIII didn't own any land (that I know of) so he can't apply for or receive farmland subsides. Billy's only (reportable) income appears to be from a SS Disability.

We have no idea what GWW III's (Billy) SS income stems from.

 

[Rutledge203]

Yes, that's what it said in this article (and the court docs filed by JW's attorney early on)

Court docs: Suspect filed for custody of child at heart of Pike County investigation days after slayings



Perhaps its the tricky way the defense attorneys worded the statement about Bruce Dailey and the custody suit.

If he was the attorney handling the custody case after the murders, it wouldn't have involved HMR because she was deceased.

Because she was deceased, what documents would Dailey have that would somehow prove that RN didn't engage in forgery of HMR's name on guardianship docs? (Recall, the discovery evidence that State turned over in RN's case were guardianship documents for HMR, JW and GW4.)

The state's motion indicates the Dailey documents are digital versions. Are they scans of documents with signatures and notary seals or not?

We're having to do a lot of catch up here, since all this information has been kept from the public until now.

If RN's attorney is introducing these documents at the last minute, wouldn't the state be able to argue that they're inadmissible as evidence since no one has been able to verify their authenticity? Does Gerlach know the Dailey docs will be ruled inadmissible, but introduced them in this manner to taint public opinion and the jury pool?

BBM Authenticity has to be verified as far as I know. If that's Gerlach's attempt, it shouldn't work. No one seems to be well aware of the last 3 days except us and Angenette Levy.

What a way to ring in the one year anniversary of the arrests.

What is the excuse for waiting until the 13th. Maybe a hail Mary to get a dismissal lIke FW got. But I sincerely hope not.