Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #116

[TL4S]

Why are LE holding on to a vehicle description, though?

Maybe BG was the passenger of that car, but the driver didn't know what BG was doing until afterwards. Maybe the driver was seen and tipped off to police, but when LE questioned him, he lied and said he was alone that day because he was afraid of getting in trouble, or afraid of BG. Maybe the April PC was to tell that driver that they've come back around and now they know he knows. Random thoughts...probably far fetched.

 

[Charlot123]

Maybe BG was the passenger of that car, but the driver didn't know what BG was doing until afterwards. Maybe the driver was seen and tipped off to police, but when LE questioned him, he lied and said he was alone that day because he was afraid of getting in trouble, or afraid of BG. Maybe the April PC was to tell that driver that they've come back around and now they know he knows. Random thoughts...probably far fetched.

If the driver was seen, they should go after the driver. To put pressure on him.

I wish we had someone more professional on this case. I think with all the information Libby has left, the fact that this case is becoming the cold case, is because of the LEOs. This is how it is going down in history.

 

[TL4S]

Cole's show is addicting, haha! As for Abby & Libby's killer, I have to agree the killer wouldn't stand out if he just had dirt, etc. on his clothing. Pretty sure he would stand out some if he was soaking wet and/or had blood on his clothing.

I like the theory that he ended up going up the creek or through the woods to find an alternate way out from the crime scene. How does that square, though, with LE asking for info about cars parked at the old social services office that day?

One thought I've had to explain this is that maybe BG followed the woods either north or southwest to the Hoosier Heartland Hwy. From there he walked the road back to his car. By then, 1-2 hours would have passed and maybe he'd not be so conspicuously wet. It would also appear like he was coming from the opposite direction than the crime scene, should anyone notice him. This scenario accounts for the car parked at the CPS lot, LE asking about anyone walking along Hoosier Heartland Hwy, and him not being seen on the trails. I don't know. That's just another "out there" idea of mine. I'm all over the place with my thoughts...

 

[Betty P]

One thought I've had to explain this is that maybe BG followed the woods either north or southwest to the Hoosier Heartland Hwy. From there he walked the road back to his car. By then, 1-2 hours would have passed and maybe he'd not be so conspicuously wet. It would also appear like he was coming from the opposite direction than the crime scene, should anyone notice him. This scenario accounts for the car parked at the CPS lot, LE asking about anyone walking along Hoosier Heartland Hwy, and him not being seen on the trails. I don't know. That's just another "out there" idea of mine. I'm all over the place with my thoughts...

Good theory. Guy must have been shivering quite a bit during that walk. Perhaps he didn't get too wet, but I don't see how he could avoid soaking the legs of his jeans just crossing the creek.

 

[TL4S]

If the driver was seen, they should go after the driver. To put pressure on him.

I wish we had someone more professional on this case. I think with all the information Libby has left, the fact that this case is becoming the cold case, is because of the LEOs. This is how it is going down in history.

If the driver was seen, LE asking the public to call them with info on that car/driver would definitely put the pressure on. They can't outright say "Call us if you saw Joe Smo parked in his pink Cadi with its top down," but they can see if anyone offers this information without having been led to it. JMO

 

[TL4S]

Good theory. Guy must have been shivering quite a bit during that walk. Perhaps he didn't get too wet, but I don't see how he could avoid soaking the legs of his jeans just crossing the creek.

I know. The whole creek crossing stuff bugs me to no end. Maybe his adrenaline rush kept him warm.

 

[Boxer]

If the driver was seen, they should go after the driver. To put pressure on him.

I wish we had someone more professional on this case. I think with all the information Libby has left, the fact that this case is becoming the cold case, is because of the LEOs. This is how it is going down in history.

Agree. Unfortunately.
Lacked initiative from the start.

 

[JnRyan]

I know. The whole creek crossing stuff bugs me to no end. Maybe his adrenaline rush kept him warm.

I got wet to up over my waist while hunting one time. And it wasn't an accident, but the result of a deliberate act. (Yes, a dumb one, but deliberate nonetheless.) Temps in the 40's and getting dark. As soon as I got moving to my car, even though I couldn't really run, I wasn't that cold. (With the sun going down I didn't want to take a chance of getting injured stepping in a hole or tripping over a root in the half mile back to my car so I didn't run.) It was only after I sat in the car waiting for the heater to warm up that I felt cold. On a sunny day with unseasonably high temps (in the mid to high 40's) and moving briskly, this guy could easily have covered 1-2 miles without much problem. It makes me wonder about this guy's past experiences. Is he a hunter? Does he have experience in the outdoors in winter?

 

[TL4S]

I got wet to up over my waist while hunting one time. And it wasn't an accident, but the result of a deliberate act. (Yes, a dumb one, but deliberate nonetheless.) Temps in the 40's and getting dark. As soon as I got moving to my car, even though I couldn't really run, I wasn't that cold. (With the sun going down I didn't want to take a chance of getting injured stepping in a hole or tripping over a root in the half mile back to my car so I didn't run.) It was only after I sat in the car waiting for the heater to warm up that I felt cold. On a sunny day with unseasonably high temps (in the mid to high 40's) and moving briskly, this guy could easily have covered 1-2 miles without much problem. It makes me wonder about this guy's past experiences. Is he a hunter? Does he have experience in the outdoors in winter?

I've had the same exact thought. Hunter, trapper, fisherman.

 

[Boxer]

I got wet to up over my waist while hunting one time. And it wasn't an accident, but the result of a deliberate act. (Yes, a dumb one, but deliberate nonetheless.) Temps in the 40's and getting dark. As soon as I got moving to my car, even though I couldn't really run, I wasn't that cold. (With the sun going down I didn't want to take a chance of getting injured stepping in a hole or tripping over a root in the half mile back to my car so I didn't run.) It was only after I sat in the car waiting for the heater to warm up that I felt cold. On a sunny day with unseasonably high temps (in the mid to high 40's) and moving briskly, this guy could easily have covered 1-2 miles without much problem. It makes me wonder about this guy's past experiences. Is he a hunter? Does he have experience in the outdoors in winter?

Agree. No one active would be too cold. Add adrenalin and I would say no pain at all - just hustle and reaction.

 

[Boxer]

I've had the same exact thought. Hunter, trapper, fisherman.

Or a young person for whom outdoor activity was usual.

 

[155etta]

Cole's show is addicting, haha! As for Abby & Libby's killer, I have to agree the killer wouldn't stand out if he just had dirt, etc. on his clothing. Pretty sure he would stand out some if he was soaking wet and/or had blood on his clothing.

I like the theory that he ended up going up the creek or through the woods to find an alternate way out from the crime scene. How does that square, though, with LE asking for info about cars parked at the old social services office that day?

I've often wondered if wet clothing is the "something that they felt needed reported".

 

[somequestions]

In my opinion, if LE likely interviewed him, or someone close to him, if they thought he could possibly actually be in the presser, if they claim him to be hiding in plain sight, if they believe him to be from Delphi, or have been from Delphi, if they state the NBG sketch is the man on the bridge, the person they are interested in, then, for me, I have to conclude BG is/was a local known to LE.

If I am to believe BG did not plan this murder, then how do I rationalize his presence at the bridge that day? Was it a place he visited often, and this day decided to sexually assault two girls, which led to the murders? He obviously had prior intent to interact with these two girls for some reason. The random appearance of the two girls that day, while he was there, is possible too, making it a crime of opportunity.

Maybe the actual murder was not planned, and maybe the interacting with these particular two girls was not planned, but some criminal act that day was planned by this guy. Possibly the next available target was all he was interested in.

I also must believe that he has/had SOME understanding of the local terrain. This guy knew the trails, the bridge, the path to the creek, the surrounding woods. OR, maybe he didn't. Maybe he corralled them down the hill, they ran, he followed, and the crime scene was random, simply where the girls ran whilst he was in pursuit.

However, I don't think this was his first time across that bridge, or in those woods. No matter his original intent that day, he almost had to have an escape route planned. To not have one would be extremely risky.

So he could have been there over the past weeks, numerous times, awaiting his opportunity. But do you really think he would have chosen TWO girls for sexual assault and/or murder? That in and of itself would substantially increase his risk factor. This is one of the reasons I think this murder was planned, if not murder, then some other reason to confront these particular two girls. He knew the girls would be there. And this is also the reason I believe there is likely another perp in the picture.

I think the killer in this case was simply a loner out for a walk. Some people just enjoy walking out in nature. How did he know about the Monon High Bridge trail? Maybe he passed a sign about it enough that he wanted to see it?

As for Liberty German's video recording of the man on the bridge, he may have already been at the other end of the bridge when they first encountered him. The reason I think that is the actual distance that Liberty German filmed him from was farther away than the close-up enhancement, and no one can even make out his face in the close-up. So that gives me the idea that maybe he had already passed the girls, went far enough down the bridge to realize no one was coming(by looking forward down the trail), and then turned around to head back towards them. Liberty may have thought there would be no other reason to turn around on the bridge like that other than to come back to talk to her and Abby. So she does a quick recording. Then maybe they tried to keep going on the trail, but realized it ended. So then they had a decision to make. Are they going to walk off into the forest area giving this person the definite idea they are trying to avoid him or just wait, see if maybe he has something to say, and then go back past him the other way.

I can understand their decision making. They had no idea what this man's intention was going to be. I read all these comments about what others would have done, but in my opinion I think many people would have done the exact same thing. Luckily, Liberty German had the foresight to do what she did before she even knew there was a problem. A lot of people do not have that type of awareness.

 

[No it's not]

Which fact do you give more weight: The fact it was the day before Valentine's Day or the fact that there was no school? Do you think one or both facts were important for the offender, or none?

-Nin

 

[Charlot123]

LE should never take anyone to court unless they have a case against them. The DA or whoever would prosecute the case would likely reject it too unless they believe they have a shot at conviction, especially in a high profile case like this. I think this comment clearly shows most people are in this for their own curiosity and not justice or concern for the victims/family, as there's no other reason people would want LE to bring a case they would lose.

Came back because I noticed one more thing. About mentioning “consideration for the victims’ families”.

First, dear @Nadal, are your the representative of the victims or the families? Or just using them to push your own point?

And if you are not, do you even know what is happening in Indiana? Is there memory of the case? In the country, too?

The main reason I am staying here now is still to keep the awareness about the case.

Honestly, I don't know what is going on there. Were LEOs so unprofessional that the case got cold and that April PC was the last one? And we shall get none?

Or, the LE is slowly, painstakingly, pulling out the threads of this complicated case, one by one?

Is the memory of the case alive in Indiana, or is it all slowly forgotten? (Because this is exactly what the perp wants and is waiting for, for the case to be forgotten).

All I see is that we have to make copies of everything, every name, that gets mentioned online. Because if this case will never get to court, then sooner or later, many things will be archived.

And who says that one day this perp won't decide to work with people, or, indeed, be the leader of the community?

He can not be allowed to have a normal life after what he has done.

All I can say, I hope it is not a cold case.

 

[Boxer]

Which fact do you give more weight: The fact it was the day before Valentine's Day or the fact that there was no school? Do you think one or both facts were important for the offender, or none?

-Nin

MOO for me, if a local, both.
Opportunity and motive.

 

[Charlot123]

Which fact do you give more weight: The fact it was the day before Valentine's Day or the fact that there was no school? Do you think one or both facts were important for the offender, or none?

-Nin

No school for too many people, be it students, teachers or parents. I am not sure Valentine's day plays any role at all, but any major state holiday could have been of the same relevance. Or maybe, a snow day would have been of the same relevance.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Which fact do you give more weight: The fact it was the day before Valentine's Day or the fact that there was no school? Do you think one or both facts were important for the offender, or none?

-Nin

I feel like for the offender, probably none. I'm mostly convinced this was a random, non targeted, opportunistic attack.

For the young ladies? No school. Sadly, it meant everything for them.

 

[No it's not]

MOO for me, if a local, both.
Opportunity and motive.

No school for too many people, be it students, teachers or parents. I am not sure Valentine's day plays any role at all, but any major state holiday could have been of the same relevance. Or maybe, a snow day would have been of the same relevance.

The offender went to a remote area with possibly more people present that day? Why going to a remote area to begin with then?

-Nin

 

[No it's not]

I feel like for the offender, probably none. I'm mostly convinced this was a random, non targeted, opportunistic attack.

For the young ladies? No school. Sadly, it meant everything for them.

Agree. So, why did he go there? Because the girls were there, if one was to believe it was a targeted attack, or because the location means something to him, or because he had a legit reason to be there?

If the location means something to him - or the date and location means something to him -, then it was a planned IMO. In that case the killer would be local or was local at some point, or works nearby, or has visited the area before. Sounds familiar? Press conference ISP.

If he had a legit reason to be there and the attack just happened, then I go back to what I have posted before, mainly, that the CS was possible staged to look like a brutal murder committed by an insane person, SK etc..

ALL IMO

-Nin