CA CA - Barbara Thomas, 69, from Bullhead City AZ, disappeared in Mojave desert, 12 July 2019 #12

[ChuckMaureen]

That can and would be detected.

there would be no proof that the owner left the location.. only that the phone proximity was not triggered and the device was stagnant....

 

[PaulR]

there would be no proof that the owner left the location.. only that the phone proximity was not triggered and the device was stagnant....

Again, someone leaving the device on a rock and going elsewhere, while presumably claiming they were at the rock, would be detected by pretty basic forensics.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

Again, someone leaving the device on a rock and going elsewhere, while presumably claiming they were at the rock, would be detected by pretty basic forensics.

They would be at the rock for some period, leave, then return. What forensics.

 

[al66pine]

@cazador
Wondering about search preparations are coming along.
Wishing you (and others) the best of luck w your selfless endeavors.

 

[PaulR]

They would be at the rock for some period, leave, then return. What forensics.

I'm not entirely comfortable saying how it would work here, except a cell phone at rest is not going to behave the same as a cell phone in motion.

Try thinking about how your fitness app works.

 

[Stripehaven]

I'm not entirely comfortable saying how it would work here, except a cell phone at rest is not going to behave the same as a cell phone in motion.

Try thinking about how your fitness app works.

In this case I’m thinking there might not be dependable cell service anyway. Did we ever learn for sure if there was service around the Kelbaker location? If someone had been there before and knew there was no service, that would simplify everything for that person.

 

[Knox]

Silence is not golden as it relates to this case. If media is reading here please, please, ask SBCSO for an update!!

 

[PaulR]

In this case I’m thinking there might not be dependable cell service anyway. Did we ever learn for sure if there was service around the Kelbaker location? If someone had been there before and knew there was no service, that would simplify everything for that person.

Collecting that information doesn't depend on cell service.

 

[Stripehaven]

Collecting that information doesn't depend on cell service.

Gotcha. This brings me back to the idea that there was another stop before Kelbaker.

 

[ChuckMaureen]

I'm not entirely comfortable saying how it would work here, except a cell phone at rest is not going to behave the same as a cell phone in motion.

Try thinking about how your fitness app works.

Most cell phone users are aware the phone display changes orientation when the phone is rotated around the screen's axis. I expect many people do not know how that works (accelerometer; I'm an old electronics guy) but, you're missing the point.

I might insert my phone in to my hip pocket and sit or lay down upon a rock for forty-five minutes, perhaps sleeping. Or, maybe I placed my phone upon a rock because I just do not like sitting with my phone in my back pocket. You could not prove I was not sitting, standing, jogging in place or simply standing there and staring at a rock formation for thirty minutes while my phone was on the rock.

 

[cazador]

What cell phone company did RT use

 

[PaulR]

Most cell phone users are aware the phone display changes orientation when the phone is rotated around the screen's axis. I expect many people do not know how that works (accelerometer; I'm an old electronics guy) but, you're missing the point.

I might insert my phone in to my hip pocket and sit or lay down upon a rock for forty-five minutes, perhaps sleeping. Or, maybe I placed my phone upon a rock because I just do not like sitting with my phone in my back pocket. You could not prove I was not sitting, standing, jogging in place or simply standing there and staring at a rock formation for thirty minutes while my phone was on the rock.

No, but I could prove that your phone was on the rock. If that conflicts with other statements you've made... bingo.

 

[10ofRods]

True......there would be “tracks” indicating such.

It's really hard to leave tracks out there. SO and I just tried (for about the 5th time) to leave tracks in a similar desert location - no luck. If the sniffer dogs had been introduced to one of Barbara's shoes, then maybe - but to my knowledge, that did not happen

It would be exceptionally easy to leave a cell phone under a rock near the parking area or any place else. Further, given that both RT and Barbara walked around in an area and criss-crossed the main trail (as far as I can tell), and apparently walked up to various rock formations, tracks wouldn't tell much (even if a scent trail).

 

[10ofRods]

how did they get to the [new] location? how far away was it? walking or driving distance?

If one left the phone at the side of a road (say at a parking area) and then drove off, then it's driving distance. If a person walked out into the desert and tucked the phone near a scenic rock, then it could be walking distance. This ploy could be used either way (and probably has been used in many crimes that are unsolved, where the phone data seems to provide an alibi).

 

[10ofRods]

That can and would be detected.

Can you say how?

Let's say that I arrived at a turn out in the desert (in a car, for simplicity). And I put my cell phone under a bush nearby (mine has a nice dust and waterproof case). I then drive a mile or two away, do something, then drive back. My vehicle doesn't have GPS.

I tell anyone who asks that I was at the parking lot the whole time. How would anyone know? Truly curious.

 

[10ofRods]

Again, someone leaving the device on a rock and going elsewhere, while presumably claiming they were at the rock, would be detected by pretty basic forensics.

Oddly, in all my years of working alongside police (in a fairly large California county), I've never heard of anything more than analysis of pings and google data. In the case that was reported in detail in To Live and Die in LA, no attempt was made to tell where the victim's phone was aside from where it last pinged (whether it was in a car, or at hip height, or whatever).

I'm wondering if all police departments do this kind of forensic work. It would surprise me very much if San Bernardino (less resource rich than where I work) had done this.

Further, if a person put the phone at a height consistent with being inside a truck, how then would anyone know? The person could say they forgot their phone, returned later quickly to get it. Not that I think anyone asked anything so specific on a lie detector test...but if they did, it might cause an irregular result. OTOH, things slip the minds of honest people all the time.

 

[PaulR]

Can you say how?

Let's say that I arrived at a turn out in the desert (in a car, for simplicity). And I put my cell phone under a bush nearby (mine has a nice dust and waterproof case). I then drive a mile or two away, do something, then drive back. My vehicle doesn't have GPS.

I tell anyone who asks that I was at the parking lot the whole time. How would anyone know? Truly curious.

Define "I was at the parking lot the whole time." With the phone in your pocket? Did you go for a walk? Or literally just sit in the car, still, with your phone in your pocket, as soon as you arrived? Or the phone left in the car while you went for a walk? What is your story? Detectives are going to ask you to be specific, so be specific about exactly what you say happened.

In BT's case, I believe the phone was used to take pictures, so it wouldn't make sense for the phone to be left behind in the car. They only had one cell phone, it can't be in two places at once.

 

[Leney]

Oddly, in all my years of working alongside police (in a fairly large California county), I've never heard of anything more than analysis of pings and google data. In the case that was reported in detail in To Live and Die in LA, no attempt was made to tell where the victim's phone was aside from where it last pinged (whether it was in a car, or at hip height, or whatever).

I'm wondering if all police departments do this kind of forensic work. It would surprise me very much if San Bernardino (less resource rich than where I work) had done this.

Further, if a person put the phone at a height consistent with being inside a truck, how then would anyone know? The person could say they forgot their phone, returned later quickly to get it. Not that I think anyone asked anything so specific on a lie detector test...but if they did, it might cause an irregular result. OTOH, things slip the minds of honest people all the time.

One simply needs to refer to the Kelsey Berreth case and the determinations of the cell phones in that case.

As well the San Bernadino SO involved the DOJ which is resource rich and has the forensic capabilities to determine this exact type of scenerio.

It is apparent that many are underestimating the use of technology in today's society and this not only includes the cell phone but apps installed on the device.

 

[iscaremyself]

There is no cell service there. One explanation for photos of Barb there then her not being there is an accomplice took her.

 

[PaulR]

There is no cell service there. One explanation for photos of Barb there then her not being there is an accomplice took her.

Sensors on a cell phone can work independently of cell service.