CA - 3 dead, including gunman, Saugus High School, Santa Clarita, 14 Nov 2019

[CSIDreamer]

He was moved to another school

When did he enroll in this school? From everything we're hearing he didn't really stand out that much. Girlfriend, track team, friends. Any indication from his previous school if he seemed adjusted?

 

[enelram]

The father being a big game hunter and owning numerous guns doesn’t mean the family is UNSTABLE.

Have you seen the reports of the dad's battle w/ chronic alcoholism?
that alone disrupts normal families. Just ask anyone who grew up in a family w/ an alcoholic.
Also the father was arrested for domestic violence.
does that not appear to be an "unstable" family?
His mother was suing the father, before he died, for full custody of the 3 children.
There was obvious chaos in this family. And it
most likely was going on for years before this
young man decided to end his life.

 

[cody22]

Have you seen the reports of the dad's battle w/ chronic alcoholism?
that alone disrupts normal families. Just ask anyone who grew up in a family w/ an alcoholic.
Also the father was arrested for domestic violence.
does that not appear to be an "unstable" family?
His mother was suing the father, before he died, for full custody of the 3 children.
There was obvious chaos in this family. And it
most likely was going on for years before this
young man decided to end his life.

Lots of young people grow up in "chaotic families". Very few turn into killers at any age in their lives..... People of all ages make bad choices. Always have done so and always will.....moo

 

[NJSleuth91]

Have you seen the reports of the dad's battle w/ chronic alcoholism?
that alone disrupts normal families. Just ask anyone who grew up in a family w/ an alcoholic.
Also the father was arrested for domestic violence.
does that not appear to be an "unstable" family?
His mother was suing the father, before he died, for full custody of the 3 children.
There was obvious chaos in this family. And it
most likely was going on for years before this
young man decided to end his life.

And I imagine the guns only made the situation even more stressful. Like if you are living with a violent alcoholic AND they have a bunch of guns, that's even worse than if they don't.

I think it's a common misconception that if someone has talents and abilities, that insulates them from the effects of trauma. This kid was apparently very intelligent, involved in extracurriculars, etc. I bet people in his life were like "he's doing well in school so he's probably ok." Maybe he felt more alienated because of that.

 

[firebird]

Have you seen the reports of the dad's battle w/ chronic alcoholism?
that alone disrupts normal families. Just ask anyone who grew up in a family w/ an alcoholic.
Also the father was arrested for domestic violence.
does that not appear to be an "unstable" family?
His mother was suing the father, before he died, for full custody of the 3 children.
There was obvious chaos in this family. And it
most likely was going on for years before this
young man decided to end his life.

I think that was the point of the post you're referring to though. That if the family was unstable, there were plenty of legitimate reasons for it, and that hunting and/or owning guns were not two of them. Personally, I loathe hunting, am in favor of the 2A but don't personally own guns. That said, I know plenty of people from stable families who either own guns, or hunt, or both. Chronic alcholism and DV, on the other hand, are clearly destabilizing factors whenever they are present. So I think the (valid) objection was to putting hunting and gun owning in a list of destabilizing behaviors.

 

[drama_farmer]

When did he enroll in this school? From everything we're hearing he didn't really stand out that much. Girlfriend, track team, friends. Any indication from his previous school if he seemed adjusted?

I don't believe that this shooter is the subject of the post you quoted. Earlier in the thread, the name of Adam Lanza and his circumstances entered the discussion. It can be very confusing to me (and I'd bet others) who are reading a thread about one topic when other topics with completely different facts are discussed, especially if the other subject's name doesn't appear in each post/reply.

So, here's a suggestion for those who want to discuss separate, unrelated incidents: I think it would help the thread if the subject in question is made apparent in each and every post. IMO.

 

[firebird]

Lots of young people grow up in "chaotic families". Very few turn into killers at any age in their lives..... People of all ages make bad choices. Always have done so and always will.....moo

Agreed. I would love to know the stats on what meds these school shooters are on and for how long. I'm not really finding anything and wonder if such stats even exist. I saw someone post upthread that other countries also take plenty of ssri's, but the US in the past 20 years blows the doors off most other countries in that department. I'm sure the same holds true for those prescribed to American children (v. adults). My theory is that there used to be a few seriously and untreated mentally ill people who would possibly shoot up a school, then we went ahead and created a bunch more by prescribing those types of drugs to children. With a ton of other factors mixed in tho. Just my opinion.

 

[CSIDreamer]

I don't believe that this shooter is the subject of the post you quoted. Earlier in the thread, the name of Adam Lanza and his circumstances entered the discussion. It can be very confusing to me (and I'd bet others) who are reading a thread about one topic when other topics with completely different facts are discussed, especially if the other subject's name doesn't appear in each post/reply.

So, here's a suggestion for those who want to discuss separate, unrelated incidents: I think it would help the thread if the subject in question is made apparent in each and every post. IMO.

That's exactly my thinking. There's a thread for AL. It's very confusing to anyone who isn't part of a completely different conversation as to what's going on.

 

[dotr]

These are the text messages one mom received from her daughter during the Saugus shooting - CNN
"Wright reunited with her daughter just after 11 a.m., when Shaya was among the last groups of students released.
She has provided her text conversation with her daughter to CNN.
"When I think of the messages I cry," Wright said.

• Hey mom i don't know whats going on here at school but i love you and im so thankful for everything youve done for me. i love you so much
• everyone is saying theres a shooter on campus i dont know whats going on but i love you and dad so much
• 
  I love you baby
• 
  Stay safe
• we're all crowded in the music library
• 
  Is Ayla with you
• im not sure they just told us to crowd in here
• we're safe now i think. we're with police and their gonna escort us i think"

 

[Sillybilly]

These are the text messages one mom received from her daughter during the Saugus shooting - CNN
"Wright reunited with her daughter just after 11 a.m., when Shaya was among the last groups of students released.
She has provided her text conversation with her daughter to CNN.
"When I think of the messages I cry," Wright said.

• Hey mom i don't know whats going on here at school but i love you and im so thankful for everything youve done for me. i love you so much
• everyone is saying theres a shooter on campus i dont know whats going on but i love you and dad so much
• 
  I love you baby
• 
  Stay safe
• we're all crowded in the music library
• 
  Is Ayla with you
• im not sure they just told us to crowd in here
• we're safe now i think. we're with police and their gonna escort us i think"

No kid or parent should ever have to go through those unbelievably agonizing thoughts and moments.

 

[human]

When did he enroll in this school? From everything we're hearing he didn't really stand out that much. Girlfriend, track team, friends. Any indication from his previous school if he seemed adjusted?

this convo was about Parkland which really does not belong here. The poster had some incorrect info that I wanted to correct because it was incorrect re students on IEPS.

 

[human]

Agreed. I would love to know the stats on what meds these school shooters are on and for how long. I'm not really finding anything and wonder if such stats even exist. I saw someone post upthread that other countries also take plenty of ssri's, but the US in the past 20 years blows the doors off most other countries in that department. I'm sure the same holds true for those prescribed to American children (v. adults). My theory is that there used to be a few seriously and untreated mentally ill people who would possibly shoot up a school, then we went ahead and created a bunch more by prescribing those types of drugs to children. With a ton of other factors mixed in tho. Just my opinion.

I would really be curious about that . The Royals are doing a whole mental health thing because of the huge amount of medication people are on.

I know they are used extensively in Europe. I have no idea about other nations. How about Canada?

 

[zencompass]

No kid or parent should ever have to go through those unbelievably agonizing thoughts and moments.

Dear @sillybilly,

Truer words were never spoken.

Your post absolutely touches the heart.

 

[human]

No kid or parent should ever have to go through those unbelievably agonizing thoughts and moments.

My grandson and two nieces had a lockdown with a real threat last spring. My grandson said they had furniture piled up against the door. The kids thought they were going to die.

My ninth grade niece cannot be home alone. She lives in terror.

The guy was in the school. Weapons in his car and many weapons at this house.

There are so many of these situations or caught situations the public does not hear about in the US.

This past fall an elementary student brought a gun to school to shoot a classmate. The principal sent a letter to parents. But because of privacy, no one knows anymore.

 

[Dawookie]

He was moved to another school

And yet he he ended back up at MSD ecause he rejected the offer of going back to the alternative school where he was in a much better place

 

[claudianunes]

When did he enroll in this school? From everything we're hearing he didn't really stand out that much. Girlfriend, track team, friends. Any indication from his previous school if he seemed adjusted?

That post was not about him, but he was a sophmore, so I'm guessing it was his second year there.

 

[Cryptic]

"Federal and state investigators are also trying to determine whether the handgun used by the suspect was made from parts purchased separately and then assembled

These so-called ghost guns are unserialized weapons manufactured from parts that can be ordered through the mail or machined parts acquired from underground makers."

Most of these ghost guns are weapons whose patents have expired. Thus, parts can be inexpensive and produced by a large number of manufacturers with out costly licensing agreements etc.

For pistols, the patent on the model 1911 .45 calibre pistol has long expired and its design does not require high precision parts per se (though models favored by target shooters are high precision).

 

[dotr]

Unsure if there is any truth to speculation that the shooter in this case was taking prescription drugs or not, but fwiw, 2 articles, each with different views about medication and school shooters...
Medication-Induced Violence | Do Drugs Play a Role in Mass Shootings?
"Mass shootings, particularly school shootings, have tragically become a topic of everyday conversation in America and, invariably, questions are asked about the mental state of the perpetrator. What sort of derangement can produce such senseless acts of violence? What are the causes of school and other mass shootings? It is unlikely there is only one cause in any situation—it is multifactorial—however, is there a straw that consistently breaks the camel’s back?

Media reports are increasingly focusing on one factor that has been found to be associated with dozens of mass shootings in America: the psychiatric medications the attacker may have been taking. Were they taking these medications or, similarly dangerous, withdrawing from them, around the time of the shootings? How long had they been taking the drugs? Could those drugs have produced or contributed to a state of mind that led to the assaults?"

"So we're verifying: In the past 20 years did the majority of mass shooters take psychotropic drugs?

VERIFY: In the past 20 years did the majority of mass shooters take psychotropic drugs before committing a crime?
To get our answer we consulted three criminal justice experts: a criminologist, sociologist and psychiatrist, who have all researched mental illness and gun violence.

They all agree: there is no link between psychotropic drugs and mass killings.

"No, it's not true..not true that a majority, not true that a lot, a few," James Fox, a criminologist with over 40 years experience who currently works at Northeastern University, explained.

"One of the cases that is often used to illustrate it is of Joseph Wesbecker, who was using Prosaic and about three or four weeks after being prescribed Prosaic went on a rampage in his place of employment killing eight and wounding 12 others," Fox said. "The thing about that is, this guy had been planning this thing for months, long before he started taking Prosaic."

Psychiatry and behavioral science expert Jeffrey Swanson agrees.

"There is no credible scientific evidence that I am aware of that would suggest psychotropic medications play any role in mass shootings," Swanson said."

 

[firebird]

I would really be curious about that . The Royals are doing a whole mental health thing because of the huge amount of medication people are on.

I know they are used extensively in Europe. I have no idea about other nations. How about Canada?

Here's the only recent chart I've found so far. Not suprisingly, Canada isn't far behind the US.

Something startling is going on with antidepressant use around the world

 

[NJSleuth91]

Unsure if there is any truth to speculation that the shooter in this case was taking prescription drugs or not, but fwiw, 2 articles, each with different views about medication and school shooters...
Medication-Induced Violence | Do Drugs Play a Role in Mass Shootings?
"Mass shootings, particularly school shootings, have tragically become a topic of everyday conversation in America and, invariably, questions are asked about the mental state of the perpetrator. What sort of derangement can produce such senseless acts of violence? What are the causes of school and other mass shootings? It is unlikely there is only one cause in any situation—it is multifactorial—however, is there a straw that consistently breaks the camel’s back?

Media reports are increasingly focusing on one factor that has been found to be associated with dozens of mass shootings in America: the psychiatric medications the attacker may have been taking. Were they taking these medications or, similarly dangerous, withdrawing from them, around the time of the shootings? How long had they been taking the drugs? Could those drugs have produced or contributed to a state of mind that led to the assaults?"

"So we're verifying: In the past 20 years did the majority of mass shooters take psychotropic drugs?

VERIFY: In the past 20 years did the majority of mass shooters take psychotropic drugs before committing a crime?
To get our answer we consulted three criminal justice experts: a criminologist, sociologist and psychiatrist, who have all researched mental illness and gun violence.

They all agree: there is no link between psychotropic drugs and mass killings.

"No, it's not true..not true that a majority, not true that a lot, a few," James Fox, a criminologist with over 40 years experience who currently works at Northeastern University, explained.

"One of the cases that is often used to illustrate it is of Joseph Wesbecker, who was using Prosaic and about three or four weeks after being prescribed Prosaic went on a rampage in his place of employment killing eight and wounding 12 others," Fox said. "The thing about that is, this guy had been planning this thing for months, long before he started taking Prosaic."

Psychiatry and behavioral science expert Jeffrey Swanson agrees.

"There is no credible scientific evidence that I am aware of that would suggest psychotropic medications play any role in mass shootings," Swanson said."

I'm not sure I would trust the opinion of an "expert" who can't even spell Prozac, LOL.

Just going to leave this here. And keep in mind, the drug company's lawyer said in this article (in 2001) that there's no evidence linking antidepressants to suicidal and homicidal thoughts. Well clearly that was inaccurate because now there are black box warnings on those drugs for suicidal and homicidal thoughts...originally for people under 18, and later for people ages 18-24 also.

Jury Awards $6.4 Million In Killings Tied to Drug

But in this case we don't know yet if Nathaniel Berhow was on any medications.

EDIT: BTW, remember when the drug companies insisted for 20 years that oxycodone was non-addictive?