CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #66

Status
Not open for further replies.
In my humble opinion, the prosecution has delivered everything necessary for the jury to find PF guilty of First Degree murder of KB. I have been following this case since Kelsey was reported missing. I have participated in this thread and read all of the posts. There have been occasions where I’ve had to ‘bite my tongue’ and scroll and roll ... but mostly I am thoroughly impressed with my fellow sleuthers.

I believe Karma works and KK is on her own journey which will be undoubtedly difficult in a myriad of ways. What will be will be ... I will never understand or relate to her willingness to clean up PFs mess but I am grateful for her willingness to eventually tell her version of events that have so expertly been supported by clear, concrete, irrefutable evidence.

I too am looking forward to closing arguments on Monday and to hearing the Guilty verdict confidently delivered by the jury.

What happens after...I pray that SFs journey includes her just dessert whatever that turns out to be.

Most importantly now, may the Berreth family be blessed with healing hearts through the joy that Baby K will bring day after day ... year after year.

And maybe ... one more thing ... could Dan May please go to Connecticut? There is a lovely family over there ... and 5 small children who really need his help.

MOO

Had the prosecution merely had what was in the arrest affidavit, I was convinced that would be enough.

They had so much more at trial, and the defense either failed to refute it, or didn’t bother trying.

Every single aspect of KK’s testimony was fully supported by physical and digital evidence, as well as numerous independent witnesses.

It’s clear why the defense didn’t try to paint her as a killer, as there was both no evidence to support that, and definitive proof that she wasn’t.

We know who did it, when he did it, how he did it, and have a decent idea why he did it.

We knew going in that this guy was both incredibly evil, and among the dumbest murderers ever to walk the planet.

We now know that not only is that accurate, but it’s understating things.

Massively.
 
She's no hero, she has no compassion for the Berreth's. I just bet she's more angry because now the entire world sees that she was a fool, she was going to be framed by him if she took Kelsey's body back with her, and he never loved her, but used her.

AND that he was texting/flirting/planning potential dates/meet ups with other chics as she's being called to come clean up his murder scene mess! Now she finds out she's on a hit list, given to a prison gang member (well former despite the permanent face tattoo), along with her best friend and entire extended family. And some charming description words of the way he wanted to see her dead. I don't know if there is even a prison sentence you can impose on her that would have as shattering of an impact as that.
 
So does PF have a cell phone ? Or can use the phone at request?
He would have used the jail phone, which would have been subject to recording. The jurors heard one of those phone calls during trial, when PF called JM to express concern about law enforcement potentially searching the barn at Nash.

Oops.
 
I'm still trying to get caught up, but wanted to touch on the possible future housing for PF.

Before the letters came out, I was not thinking he would go to a Supermax prison, but now I'm not so sure. These letters are seriously damning and the fact that he has an LE on the list is practically icing on the cake. CO does have a Supermax and I believe that is where El Chapo is spending his last days.
Yikes the thought of El Chapo and PF together is worse than frightening.
 
I wonder if PF is under suicide watch. Although his IQ is under zero, he should be aware that he is done by now. After his plan to get rid of witnesses was unsuccessful, he might also think of suicide. You never not know what's going on in his sick mind. JMO
An 'average' person might consider suicide at this point, but PF loves himself way too much!

MOO
 
Maybe he was planning ahead just in case? He mentioned to John Doe how much he had enjoyed the planning aspect of his vanishing witnesses scheme and their future together as partners in crime taking the world by storm. He probably acted it all out with his action figures on the floor of his cell with lots of sound effects. MOO

BBM
I can totally see PF doing this!
 
Why would PF have called in a handwriting expert at that point? The burden of proof is on the prosecution. Why didn't the DA call in a verification witness instead of the agent who was listed on the hit list?

JMO
The burden of proof is on the prosecution. Which is why they brought forth the letters, and had the witness who received the letters testify to that, under oath.
The jury can decide who the think is more credible. Since they already caught PF in many lies, they might be more apt to believe the jail house witness.

The witness called the defense team back in October. So he had these letters back then already, before the trial began, and before all those people were named in the news.

Hard to believe how the jailhouse witness would know SF's cell number.
 
So if DA is only planning on 30 min. for closing
arguments, how long will the defense take?
5 minutes?
I am so disappointed in Ashley. She made promises she didn't keep. Something about a house and proving Krystal was the killer. This was a lame defense team. I get that they couldn't dispute a lot of things, but they went easy on Krystal, in my eyes. Their most repeated defense of Patrick "but there was no blood on his clothes!".

I just wanted to see them at least make Krystal rattle a little for her involvement. They were awfully nice to her.
 
That statement betrays a total lack of understanding of the process, with respect.

The state has the burden of proving he murdered Kelsey, beyond a reasonable doubt. They produced testimony and evidence that was admitted without objection or cross examination. It was authenticated. That is their burden. Once they met that burden it is the defense’s job to refute that authentication if they can.

There will be no jury instructions saying that question of the letter’s authorship is up for grabs. Credibility of the informant is a different matter but as authenticity wasn’t challenged that will be largely irrelevant.

Wright given to these letters as to how much they show consciousness of guilt will likely be part of the instructions but it is absurd to think that an innocent man would try to get all the witnesses against him to be killed.

To look forward at this stage to the defense’s closing arguments as if those will be meaningful for the defendant can only be possible IMO if one hasn’t truly followed this case.

The defense literally put on no case. Nothing at all. And using logic, they would’ve had to to cast reasonable doubt based on the theory they proposed in their opening.

BBM. Respectfully, I don't believe you are accurate. I do believe there was cross examination by the defense. By reporters' tweets and news reports, we know that there was a meeting with the judge behind closed doors. To me, that is a strong indication the defense objected to the testimony before it began. I also know that Agent Slater admitted he isn't a handwriting expert. If he's not a handwriting expert, he didn't "authenticate" the letters. The inmate witness admitted he considered selling the letters on ebay. Through defense cross-examination, he admitted he wanted a plea deal and a lighter sentence.

I think the defense will be reminding the jury of the relevant facts about the lack of forensic evidence during closing arguments. After all, the jury was present at the trial and taking notes. It would not surprise me if at least some of them have the same concerns as posters have expressed here.

JMO

Gregg Slater, investigator for Colorado Bureau of Investigations testifies that he recognizes Frazee's handwriting based on other pieces of evidence collected. Although he adnits he's not a handwriting expert.

Former inmate testifies in Patrick Frazee trial
 
Hell, damn near every day of trial we’ve found ourselves laughing at something.

Nothing compares to those letters though.
Not to mention his choice of stationary - that will be discussed for awhile IMO - I mean all you have to do is get them wet to destroy - I’ve said it before but he really is as dumb as a box of rocks IMO
 
BBM. Respectfully, I don't believe you are accurate. I do believe there was cross examination by the defense. By reporters' tweets and news reports, we know that there was a meeting with the judge behind closed doors. To me, that is a strong indication the defense objected to the testimony before it began. I also know that Agent Slater admitted he isn't a handwriting expert. If he's not a handwriting expert, he didn't "authenticate" the letters. The inmate witness admitted he considered selling the letters on ebay. Through defense cross-examination, he admitted he wanted a plea deal and a lighter sentence.

I think the defense will be reminding the jury of the relevant facts about the lack of forensic evidence during closing arguments. After all, the jury was present at the trial and taking notes. It would not surprise me if at least some of them have the same concerns as posters have expressed here.

JMO

Gregg Slater, investigator for Colorado Bureau of Investigations testifies that he recognizes Frazee's handwriting based on other pieces of evidence collected. Although he adnits he's not a handwriting expert.

Former inmate testifies in Patrick Frazee trial
The testimony of the witness is not important, nor are his motivations. That was basically an effort to trick the jury into focusing on the witness, instead of the most important part.

Those letters.

Letters whose legitimacy was not disputed by the defense. Not once.

That didn’t fool most of us.

And “lack of forensic evidence?” Are you serious?

A tooth belonging to a female, found in a place that it had no business being.

Blood splatter on the fireplace, chairs, cushions, and pooled under the floorboards.

Blood in the bathroom.

All Kelsey’s. “Septillion” is a very big number.

Saying that there is a lack of forensic evidence is not merely wrong, it is a flat out lie.
 
Could be. Maybe she had them pulled. Or the teeth are at the house because they belong to one of Sheila’s kids from when they were little.

The Tooth Fairy. When I was a youngster it was common for children who shed a baby tooth to put the tooth under their pillow at night. In the morning the child looks under the pillow and the tooth is gone and there is money in it's place. Mom says, "The Tooth Fairy visited you last night and left you the money."

I don't know if parents still do this, but there is a Wiki article on the subject. These mysterious teeth may (or may not) be anything more than the Frazee sibling's baby teeth. Maybe SF saved the teeth the way some mothers save a lock of hair or baby shoes.

Tooth fairy - Wikipedia
 
If the person put up the money knowing it was payment for what they thought would be hits taken out on others, I would personally file conspiracy to commit murder charges. You need at least two people plus one affirmative action, and that suffices.
Isn't bail usually paid in cash? Unless SF showed up in person, how could LE prove who is the source of the cash?

JMO
 
BBM. Respectfully, I don't believe you are accurate. I do believe there was cross examination by the defense. By reporters' tweets and news reports, we know that there was a meeting with the judge behind closed doors. To me, that is a strong indication the defense objected to the testimony before it began. I also know that Agent Slater admitted he isn't a handwriting expert. If he's not a handwriting expert, he didn't "authenticate" the letters. The inmate witness admitted he considered selling the letters on ebay. Through defense cross-examination, he admitted he wanted a plea deal and a lighter sentence.

I think the defense will be reminding the jury of the relevant facts about the lack of forensic evidence during closing arguments. After all, the jury was present at the trial and taking notes. It would not surprise me if at least some of them have the same concerns as posters have expressed here.

JMO

Gregg Slater, investigator for Colorado Bureau of Investigations testifies that he recognizes Frazee's handwriting based on other pieces of evidence collected. Although he adnits he's not a handwriting expert.

Former inmate testifies in Patrick Frazee trial

My understanding is that the defense cross examined the John Doe Witness. They did not cross examine Slater.

ETA:

Most of the letters had instructions to flush the bathroom paper towels once the former inmate had read the message.

The defense did not cross-examine Slater.

The prosecution then said they would rest their case. The defense — after confirming that Frazee would not testify — also rested without bringing up any witnesses.


Link: Frazee trial: Letters say Frazee asked inmate to kill witnesses
 
Last edited:
The Tooth Fairy. When I was a youngster it was common for children who shed a baby tooth to put the tooth under their pillow at night. In the morning the child looks under the pillow and the tooth is gone and there is money in it's place. Mom says, "The Tooth Fairy visited you last night and left you the money."

I don't know if parents still do this, but there is a Wiki article on the subject. These mysterious teeth may (or may not) be anything more than the Frazee sibling's baby teeth. Maybe SF saved the teeth the way some mothers save a lock of hair or baby shoes.

Tooth fairy - Wikipedia

My family did the tooth fairy too. Not the tooth in the fire though. Tooth fairy didn’t drop that one there.
 
I wonder if PF is under suicide watch. Although his IQ is under zero, he should be aware that he is done by now. After his plan to get rid of witnesses was unsuccessful, he might also think of suicide. You never not know what's going on in his sick mind. JMO
I've heard that following a trial, suicide watch is a given when the defendant is found guilty.
I bet Sam will find out for us!
 
RSBM
He's making sure the hitman he thinks he is hiring won't be as stupid as he was.
Perhaps he was hoping that one of these persons would be killed, as didn't some think that his defense was going to be it was a hit man who killed KKB? And then he could say, "see I told you so, wasn't me"
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
185
Guests online
2,253
Total visitors
2,438

Forum statistics

Threads
589,969
Messages
17,928,493
Members
228,026
Latest member
CSIFLGIRL46
Back
Top