CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #66

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What blows my mind is the absurdity of the huge request.

he is not offering any upfront expense money. But he gives him a long wish list of people to kill---
an entire family, including young children, a rancher and his wife, an FBI agent, and they span thousands of miles, but PF expects his prison buddy to accomplish this somehow? And with no money upfront, no real cash incentive....just a vague ' will pay whatever' ....

"oh, and I'm not guilty or anything, I just want these 10 people dead. thanks"

I think we've seen desperation at work with Patrick in that jail.

He seemed to think robbing and killing his rich "stepfather figure" was incentive enough to get the ball rolling with John Doe, as though Doe couldn't find someone on his own to rob?

I wish we could have seen the testimony of Mister Doe. He may one-up Patrick on the pretending-to-be-what-you're-not meter as he knew he wasn't going to kill all those people yet he got written proof of the solicitation.

He should get all his charges dropped and become a full-time Criminal Informant for LE!
 
The defense may have objected to the testimony before it began, but once they were in the court room in front of the jury they did very little to challenge the letters.

I can't think of any other reason why other than the fact that they know PF wrote them.

Imo
If that is true, I think the defense and the prosecution would be vigorously trying to negotiate a plea deal this weekend. We'll see if that happens.

A good reason not to negotiate a plea deal would be because the defense knows there is no forensic proof PF wrote them.

JMO
 
I don't believe PF requested the guy do anything at all.

JMO
My previous post presented a direct MSM link to the notes as transcribed by the press. Did you take a gander?

My guess is that those notes could be presented to someone with ZERO KNOWLEDGE of this case and in a different part of the US and that person would be able to easily figure out what was being asked and what was being promised.

Is your assumption that PF was perhaps speaking in 'jail code' which we don't understand and which the Prosecution didn't understand and the Press didn't understand and was perhaps setting up assignations with a 'jailhouse crush' to meet at midnight in the showers for a rendezvous?

What else could PF have been doing other than identifying 12 individuals who threatened his freedom in one way or another or that he simply hated?

Really curious what you believed the notes to represent.
 
Many times no cash changes hands.
Often people put up valuable items such as their homes for collateral.
F. Dulos put up his 401K for starters on his bond.

We don't know who gave John Doe's girlfriend the means to get him out.

We do know that he stayed in jail for 17 days before his bail was worked out so he wasn't rolling in money.....

17 days in which he discussed his financial situation with Patrick Frazee.
He got Ma F's contact info and then,
well, golly, gee, the bond was posted!
Yes ma’am!

If only there was evidence presented by the other side in this case.
im so glad you got my point - thank you
 
Many times no cash changes hands.
Often people put up valuable items such as their homes for collateral.
F. Dulos put up his 401K for starters on his bond.

We don't know who gave John Doe's girlfriend the means to get him out.

We do know that he stayed in jail for 17 days before his bail was worked out so he wasn't rolling in money.....

17 days in which he discussed his financial situation with Patrick Frazee.
He got Ma F's contact info and then,
well, golly, gee, the bond was posted!
You are confusing posting bond directly and hiring a bail bondsman to post bond for him.

Teller County requires cash to be paid in person. I posted the link up-thread. If the guy's girlfriend paid it, there is no proof the money is tied to SF.

Why would SF agree to bond out any ex-con? I think she would immediately report it to PF's defense team or to her son in law enforcement.

JMO
 
If that is true, I think the defense and the prosecution would be vigorously trying to negotiate a plea deal this weekend. We'll see if that happens.

A good reason not to negotiate a plea deal would be because the defense knows there is no forensic proof PF wrote them.

JMO
Hold it, What?

If the defense begged for a plea deal at this point, the prosecution would laugh at them before saying “hell no.”

<modsnip: personalizing>
 
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Technically, the jury hasn't caught PF in any lies

RSBM

JMO

I think you and the 12 members of the jury might have differing opinions?

See you on Monday afternoon when hopefully we will have a verdict.

That's all I can say as speaking for myself, I'm going to make certain that I won't be going on vacation and will be here to join everybody in posting our relief that he soon is headed to prison for life.
 
You are right MyBelle, sounds like the defense did object.
However, in the presence of the jury, the ones who decide their client's fate, the defense chose not to cross examine agent Slater on his familiarity with the writing. They did not.
As in the words of riolove77 this is telling....
Agent Slater testified he is not a handwriting "expert" so what exactly was the defense supposed to question?

What is very telling to me is that there was no attempt by the prosecution to authenticate the letters either with a handwriting "expert" or with finger prints. Wouldn't it be easier for the defense to remind the jury of this lack of forensic evidence in closing?

JMO
 
I think we've seen desperation at work with Patrick in that jail.

He seemed to think robbing and killing his rich "stepfather figure" was incentive enough to get the ball rolling with John Doe, as though Doe couldn't find someone on his own to rob?

I wish we could have seen the testimony of Mister Doe. He may one-up Patrick on the pretending-to-be-what-you're-not meter as he knew he wasn't going to kill all those people yet he got written proof of the solicitation.

He should get all his charges dropped and become a full-time Criminal Informant for LE!
MemPat, wait till we read the transcript from this trial.
Bam! There is sooo much we are going to learn about.
:0)
 
Hold it, What?

If the defense begged for a plea deal at this point, the prosecution would laugh at them before saying “hell no.”

<modsnip: personalizing>
I can’t wait for Monday ! If there is a plea request it would be PF begging for Life with parole rather than LWOP IMO
 
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This is getting silly. Are we really going to debate whether getting toilet paper or paper towels wet will destroy them or anything that has been written on them?
There really is nothing to debate. I posted a link to support my opinion.
 
Technically, the jury hasn't caught PF in any lies because he has the right to remain silent.
I've seen no evidence the witness contacted the defense team in October or at any time.

Google SF's name and 8 names will pop up with name, address, phone number and a list of people they know. Not all that hard for a convict in need of money and a sweet plea deal.
JMO
I'm curious if the repeated lies told by PF to his 'friends' and 'family' count for much?

PF didn't really IMO have to speak because the witnesses spoke on his behalf about so many falsehoods over a long period of time about any number of topics, but IMO most importantly about KB.

PF appeared to be such a chronic liar that he couldn't even keep all the lies straight and sometimes seemed to slant his 'stories' to the person he was with at the time.

The jury has been following along just like the folks here at WS and the mistruths and shaded truths and outright lies of PF as stated to many people which were all carefully woven into the narrative of this case IMO masterfully by the Prosecution as testimony of precisely what the character of PF is: he is someone that has a convenient grasp of the truth on the best of days and in particular as it related to KB, for whatever reason.

MOO
 
Agent Slater testified he is not a handwriting "expert" so what exactly was the defense supposed to question?

What is very telling to me is that there was no attempt by the prosecution to authenticate the letters either with a handwriting "expert" or with finger prints. Wouldn't it be easier for the defense to remind the jury of this lack of forensic evidence in closing?

JMO
PF could take the stand and deny.
 
What blows my mind is the absurdity of the huge request.

he is not offering any upfront expense money. But he gives him a long wish list of people to kill---
an entire family, including young children, a rancher and his wife, an FBI agent, and they span thousands of miles, but PF expects his prison buddy to accomplish this somehow? And with no money upfront, no real cash incentive....just a vague ' will pay whatever' ....

"oh, and I'm not guilty or anything, I just want these 10 people dead. thanks"

When you put it all together like that, it's even more gobsmacking. Hail Mary Passes? What WAS he thinking? PF seems short-sighted, but then he's been talking for months laying groundwork for KB's disappearance (trashing Kelsey so when she "left" no one would miss her).

The wheel that drives his brain is apparently being powered by something my nonprof mind can't understand. It's like PF doesn't hear "mass murder" when he talks like this. It's like he's moved from narcissism to malignant narcissism (guessing, just guessing), seems to be totally obliterating reality from his conscious thought in the quest for what he wants. Never taking responsibility, just planning his next move. PF confounds me. I know, EVIL, but you know....that's just a result of what's going on in his head--which is what fascinates me about these people. What shaped that guy?
 
Cash, or it’s equivalent. Cash doesn’t necessarily mean “paper money.”

It is always documented, as that money is either reimbursed, or seized (failure to appear).

You are dead wrong on this.

Feel free to post a link that proves this link is wrong. It clearly states nothing but cash will be accepted. It also clearly states the money will be seized if failure to appear.
Teller County Jail & Detention Center Info: Visiting, Bail, Location, Safety

Bail Bonding in Divide


In most cases, arrestees can obtain temporary freedom from the Teller County jail by posting a bail bond. In some cases, a detainee may be released on his or her own recognizance, meaning no payment is required. To determine the bond amount, call the jail at (719) 687-7770.


To pay a cash bond, you need to come into the jail and present cash at the front desk. No other forms of payment will be accepted.
 
When you put it all together like that, it's even more gobsmacking. Hail Mary Passes? What WAS he thinking? PF seems short-sighted, but then he's been talking for months laying groundwork for KB's disappearance (trashing Kelsey so when she "left" no one would miss her).

The wheel that drives his brain is apparently being powered by something my nonprof mind can't understand. It's like PF doesn't hear "mass murder" when he talks like this. It's like he's moved from narcissism to malignant narcissism (guessing, just guessing), seems to be totally obliterating reality from his conscious thought in the quest for what he wants. Never taking responsibility, just planning his next move. PF confounds me. I know, EVIL, but you know....that's just a result of what's going on in his head--which is what fascinates me about these people. What shaped that guy?
bolding mine
Good question.
Someone raised this man.
I rest my case.
 
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