Jonbenet Last Photo at White’s Christmas Party

[UKGuy]

Patsy would have tied the second hair tie, as was her routine, for JonBenet getting ready for bed. If JonBenet was as 'zonked' as they said, surely they would have laid her down and not fussed with putting the hair tie in? So I think Patsy did put her to bed and helped her change into the 'long underwear' ie. Burke's old longjohns - possibly had a discussion/argument with her about wearing a pullup nappy - lost that fight, and kept the original size 6 Wednesday undies on her, but put the red top on to make life easier in the morning - (or no top as it was pretty warm in her room?). Prior to this JonBenet could have pinched a bit of pineapple from Burke's bowl, who didn't really want to eat the rest after that, so he grabbed a can of soda instead. Patsy probably didn't even see all that happen as she was pretty tipsy and she 'zonked out' on her side of the bed without even changing her clothes or removing her makeup, shortly after putting JonBenet to bed.

Veronica Lodge,
However we interpret the ponytails they are a red flag as they are not consistent with the parents version of events.

Minimally I reckon Patsy dressed JonBenet's hair for a quick getaway the following morning, the red top makes sense, as it was December, also remember Patsy breaking down at being shown the photograph of it in the bathroom, balled up on the counter, i.e. take it as read : it had been worn then tossed away by someone, otherwise it would be in a drawer?

BPD 1998 Patsy Interview Excerpt

3 TRIP DEMUTH: Patsy, why the long underwear?

4 PATSY RAMSEY: Well, I remember I was digging

5 around for something. I was trying to find the pink

6 ones she wore the night before. I couldn't put my hand

7 on them right quick. And so I went to these drawers

8 looking for the pajamas, and she was just laying there,

9 so I didn't want to raise her up and get everything off

10 of her to put a long nightgown, so looking for pajamas

11 bottoms to put on her. I couldn't find any, and the

12 long underwear pants were in there drawer, so I got

13 those.

The Pink Pajama Bottoms should really have been in the same location as the Pink Pajama Top, i.e. lying at the top of JonBenet's bed?

The Pink Pajama Bottoms are still missing in action, presumably they have gone the same route as the size-6 Bloomingdale underwear?

I might have this wrong, as from memory, in the photograph where Burke and JonBenet are opening their Christmas gifts, JonBenet is wearing her Pink pajama set?

I reckon JonBenet was changed from the Pink Pajama Set to the Barbie Nightgown, this might explain the bloodstains?

At the end of the day, if the case is JDI, then the size-12's and longjohns might just be a Dead Cat On The Table ploy by John?

IMO JonBenet made it to her bed, nothing happened in the kitchen, i.e. nothing out of place, no obvious signs of disarray.

It appears JonBenet was assaulted in one of the bedrooms, could Patsy have elected to sleep in the room where she was packing, consider what LHP had to say regarding John and Patsy's relationship?

The basement is where the staging took place, nobody from a wealthy family needs to be hanging about in a cold, drafty, damp basement, bang in the middle of winter.

Speculating: was Patsy drugged deliberately Christmas Night, hence she just falls asleep wearing her makeup and clothes?

BTW Patsy dressed as she was is another inconsistency in a PDI, as all she had to do was wash her face and toss a nightgown on job done!

Burke's fingerprints are on the glass next to the pineapple bowl, which sugests he either lifted it to put the teabag in, or/and he drank tea from it?

What's curious about this is the presence of two empty soda cans in the sink in Burke's bedroom?

Again this is from memory, so if it's two is that one for Burke and another for JonBenet, or did Burke drink a glass of tea, followed by two cans of soda?

.

 

[Veronica Lodge]

Ok so lots to unpack UKGuy, that's why this crime is so messed up. Ok so I picture a drunk/drugged Patsy trying to dress JonBenet for bed, wobbling around arguing about pull-ups, toileting etc. but I think she did find the bottoms and changed JonBenet into them. I think you're right that these ended up with blood or something on them so were disposed of along with the size 6 Wednesday undies.

Speculating: was Patsy drugged deliberately Christmas Night, hence she just falls asleep wearing her makeup and clothes?

Yes, now we are on the same page I think. This is exactly what I think happened. John's story about taking sleeping tablets may have a small grain of truth - except he gave two tablets that would make her sleep to Patsy, possibly with a cup of tea he so kindly made her. That plus her other medication/alcohol and she's 'zonked' and out of the way.

So then he just has Burke to deal with, he 'hurries' him to bed. Burke remembers that part... this is after John's told Doug Stine, time's up, it time to go home.
I have to back track a little to explain I think Doug jumped in the car at the Stine's gift drop off (probably to John's annoyance) just for a quick visit to see Burke's new Nintendo system. No need for Doug's father to come get him, just borrow Burke's bike. I could be well wrong with the Doug part, but it does explain a few things. Was Doug ever interviewed?

I'm not sure where Patsy slept - possibly the sun room(?), wherever she landed I'd say, and probably sitting up and snoring so her hair wasn't muzzed.

 

[BoldBear]

I still get a little sick to my stomach when I think about this case. Especially when I first saw her last photo. And then there's the whole disconnect where 'Your daughter's dead but we're going to save your *advertiser censored*. Get out of state because any arrests will require extradition. You need to do everything you can to not cooperate with the police so any communications need to go through your attornies only.'

 

[Veronica Lodge]

I still get a little sick to my stomach when I think about this case. Especially when I first saw her last photo. And then there's the whole disconnect where 'Your daughter's dead but we're going to save your *advertiser censored*. Get out of state because any arrests will require extradition. You need to do everything you can to not cooperate with the police so any communications need to go through your attornies only.'

The whole thing stinks that's for sure. It's like a peek at a dirty underworld isn't it? There's a lot of good in this world, but sadly also a lot of evil.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I ran across new released photo of Jonbenet at the White’s Christmas Party. John released it. I
Remember there was interest in the photo to see what she wearing. I would love to hear input from fellow sleuths.
Google Image Result for https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article18800954.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/0_New-suspect-unmasked-in-JonnBenet-Ramsey-murder-case-as-serial-killer-theory-emerges.jpg

The number of inaccuracies in this article boggles the mind!!!
SMH

 

[Loulani]

Speculating: was Patsy drugged deliberately Christmas Night, hence she just falls asleep wearing her makeup and clothes?

I don't think she was drugged but she definitely slept for a while at some point (early) that night:

"A few weeks later, before the dinner was arranged, the Phillipses' daughter, Lindsey, said that she wanted to play with Burke, so Judith drover her over to the Stines' house [...] Lindsey went off to play with Burke and some other children, and Patsy greeted Judith, who could now see that despite her attempt to look composed, Patsy was in fact distraught under the thinnest veneer of normalcy. Judith thought she might be heavily medicated. Soon Patsy was crying on Judith's shoulder. "If only I had woken up. If only I woke up," Patsy repeated. "Why didn't I wake up?" (Schiller, PMPT, p. 241)

I believe she woke up and walked into something that *advertiser censored**** her up completely. It doesn't explain what happened to JBR and who did what but this indicates that PDI didn't happen. I think Patsy woke up after an hour or two and walked into a dead or almost dead JBR. It also indicates that both parents were asleep (John from pills, Patsy from alcohol or whatever after both kids were sent to bed) during the abuse and murder, and they only found out when it was already too late to call an ambulance.

 

[UKGuy]

I don't think she was drugged but she definitely slept for a while at some point (early) that night:

"A few weeks later, before the dinner was arranged, the Phillipses' daughter, Lindsey, said that she wanted to play with Burke, so Judith drover her over to the Stines' house [...] Lindsey went off to play with Burke and some other children, and Patsy greeted Judith, who could now see that despite her attempt to look composed, Patsy was in fact distraught under the thinnest veneer of normalcy. Judith thought she might be heavily medicated. Soon Patsy was crying on Judith's shoulder. "If only I had woken up. If only I woke up," Patsy repeated. "Why didn't I wake up?" (Schiller, PMPT, p. 241)

I believe she woke up and walked into something that *advertiser censored**** her up completely. It doesn't explain what happened to JBR and who did what but this indicates that PDI didn't happen. I think Patsy woke up after an hour or two and walked into a dead or almost dead JBR. It also indicates that both parents were asleep (John from pills, Patsy from alcohol or whatever after both kids were sent to bed) during the abuse and murder, and they only found out when it was already too late to call an ambulance.

Loulani,

both kids were sent to bed) during the abuse and murder, and they only found out when it was already too late to call an ambulance.

BBM: Only if JonBenet was deceased was it too late. More likely they did not want anyone to examine JonBenet because the outcome was self evident: arrest.

No PDI, I totally agree. Patsy's forensic evidence is all over the wine-cellar, definitely not the MO of someone staging them self out of a homicide?

Could be JonBenet was staged by her initial assailant, with Patsy recognizing how amateur it looked so she adds her two-cents.

You could still argue PDI along these lines: if Patsy was willing to asphyxiate JonBenet, then a fake sexual assault was possible too, meaning maybe it was Patsy who initially whacked JonBenet on the head?

My money is on BDI or JDI.

.

 

[Loulani]

Loulani,

BBM: Only if JonBenet was deceased was it too late. More likely they did not want anyone to examine JonBenet because the outcome was self evident: arrest.

.

My personal opinion is that she was (thought) dead already when they discovered JBR. Ofc I could be wrong on this one but to me it seems to be the most likely scenario. They then staged the crime scene and wrote the RN.

Loulani,

Could be JonBenet was staged by her initial assailant, with Patsy recognizing how amateur it looked so she adds her two-cents.

.

Yea, that's what I believe happened. She was dead already and Patsy restaged the crime scene, she also moved the barbie nightgown downstairs, as far away from them as possible. I doubt she would do that for John but in one of the books I read, it was either Kolar's or Schiller's, she told that she couldn't lose Burke as well. In General, I think the statements that slipped to friends are much more telling than most of the transcripts of the interviews.

Loulani,

You could still argue PDI along these lines: if Patsy was willing to asphyxiate JonBenet, then a fake sexual assault was possible too, meaning maybe it was Patsy who initially whacked JonBenet on the head?

My money is on BDI or JDI.

.

It surely is possible although the chances, IMHO, are very slim because, to me, your descriptions don't match with the genuinely grieving mother that Patsy always seemed to be in my eyes. I just can't get over that she's crying on someone's shoulders beating herself up that she didn't wake up. To me, that's not someone who would strangle her daughter to death to cover up an accident. I think she was really sleeping when it all happened and that's what she beat herself up for. That she didn't wake up when her baby needed her the most (and i know how wrong this sounds given the prior sexual abuse and bet wetting issues that "prove" the abuse). I know all those things about the Ramseys, but never one moment i felt that their, both John's and Patsy's, grief was not real. It's not so much what they are saying, cuz that's mostly lies to cover up more lies, it's their behavior that we know from former friends. Part of me feels really sorry for them because they did lose their daughter while the other part wants them to burn in hell because they let all this happen to this little girl without doing anything. They should have been charged and brought to trial with what the Grandjury indicted.

I'm - kinda obvious - BDI all with Patsy and John staging after Patsy found her dead.

 

[fridaybaker]

My personal opinion is that she was (thought) dead already when they discovered JBR. Ofc I could be wrong on this one but to me it seems to be the most likely scenario. They then staged the crime scene and wrote the RN.





Yea, that's what I believe happened. She was dead already and Patsy restaged the crime scene, she also moved the barbie nightgown downstairs, as far away from them as possible. I doubt she would do that for John but in one of the books I read, it was either Kolar's or Schiller's, she told that she couldn't lose Burke as well. In General, I think the statements that slipped to friends are much more telling than most of the transcripts of the interviews.



It surely is possible although the chances, IMHO, are very slim because, to me, your descriptions don't match with the genuinely grieving mother that Patsy always seemed to be in my eyes. I just can't get over that she's crying on someone's shoulders beating herself up that she didn't wake up. To me, that's not someone who would strangle her daughter to death to cover up an accident. I think she was really sleeping when it all happened and that's what she beat herself up for. That she didn't wake up when her baby needed her the most (and i know how wrong this sounds given the prior sexual abuse and bet wetting issues that "prove" the abuse). I know all those things about the Ramseys, but never one moment i felt that their, both John's and Patsy's, grief was not real. It's not so much what they are saying, cuz that's mostly lies to cover up more lies, it's their behavior that we know from former friends. Part of me feels really sorry for them because they did lose their daughter while the other part wants them to burn in hell because they let all this happen to this little girl without doing anything. They should have been charged and brought to trial with what the Grandjury indicted.

I'm - kinda obvious - BDI all with Patsy and John staging after Patsy found her dead.

I find the Ramsey’s grief all about THEMSELVES. I think they were/are utter narcissists. JB was all about them, especially Patsy. I despise them.

BDI, JDI, PDI. -all within the realm of possibility.

 

[UKGuy]

My personal opinion is that she was (thought) dead already when they discovered JBR. Ofc I could be wrong on this one but to me it seems to be the most likely scenario. They then staged the crime scene and wrote the RN.



Yea, that's what I believe happened. She was dead already and Patsy restaged the crime scene, she also moved the barbie nightgown downstairs, as far away from them as possible. I doubt she would do that for John but in one of the books I read, it was either Kolar's or Schiller's, she told that she couldn't lose Burke as well. In General, I think the statements that slipped to friends are much more telling than most of the transcripts of the interviews.



It surely is possible although the chances, IMHO, are very slim because, to me, your descriptions don't match with the genuinely grieving mother that Patsy always seemed to be in my eyes. I just can't get over that she's crying on someone's shoulders beating herself up that she didn't wake up. To me, that's not someone who would strangle her daughter to death to cover up an accident. I think she was really sleeping when it all happened and that's what she beat herself up for. That she didn't wake up when her baby needed her the most (and i know how wrong this sounds given the prior sexual abuse and bet wetting issues that "prove" the abuse). I know all those things about the Ramseys, but never one moment i felt that their, both John's and Patsy's, grief was not real. It's not so much what they are saying, cuz that's mostly lies to cover up more lies, it's their behavior that we know from former friends. Part of me feels really sorry for them because they did lose their daughter while the other part wants them to burn in hell because they let all this happen to this little girl without doing anything. They should have been charged and brought to trial with what the Grandjury indicted.

I'm - kinda obvious - BDI all with Patsy and John staging after Patsy found her dead.

Loulani,

I'm - kinda obvious - BDI all with Patsy and John staging after Patsy found her dead.

Sure, and you might be 100% correct. Yet the case might also be a classic familial abuse scenario, e.g. JDI, as John and Patsy apparently had little or no intimate conntact,, and both Burke and JonBenet were in therapy.

Something was going on!

.

 

[Loulani]

I find the Ramsey’s grief all about THEMSELVES. I think they were/are utter narcissists. JB was all about them, especially Patsy. I despise them.

BDI, JDI, PDI. -all within the realm of possibility.

No matter how much they cared about themselves, they are still parents who loved their kids, who lost their 6yo daughter and, if it's really BDI, they went to unimaginable lengths to protect Burke. It's wrong, completely wrong what they did and that they knowingly and recklessly (what does this even mean exactly!) placed JBR in a situation that caused her death, but I would not doubt the love they had for their children for one second. We don't know what went on in this household before JBR's death, esp. regarding Burke and JBR and what really went on between them. The Ramsey's are bad people but they are not the devil himself.

Loulani,

Sure, and you might be 100% correct. Yet the case might also be a classic familial abuse scenario, e.g. JDI, as John and Patsy apparently had little or no intimate conntact,, and both Burke and JonBenet were in therapy.

Something was going on!

.

That's true though I think Patsy would have turned John in if she found out that he was abusing their kids. Also, he never abused his older children afaik. Sadly we don't know why both of the children were in therapy though my guess is on Burke was abusing his sister and both were in therapy for that. That would match the Grand Jury's indictment regarding the recklessly and knowingly part. If they knew what went on and sent Burke and JBR to therapy for that and still placed her in a situation like that... It's just so sad.

 

[Swirlz]

According to both John and Patsy, Burke and JonBenet were in therapy about Patsy's cancer.

 

[UKGuy]

According to both John and Patsy, Burke and JonBenet were in therapy about Patsy's cancer.

Swirlz,
I would buy that line after Patsy passed away. Patsy like any mother would want to shield her kids from the knock on effects of her cancer.

Also if the kids are seeing a therapist due to inappropriate intimacy, then Patsy has to cook up some excuse other than the actual reason.


So she would say that of course.

.

 

[David Rogers]

No matter how much they cared about themselves, they are still parents who loved their kids, who lost their 6yo daughter and, if it's really BDI, they went to unimaginable lengths to protect Burke. It's wrong, completely wrong what they did and that they knowingly and recklessly (what does this even mean exactly!) placed JBR in a situation that caused her death, but I would not doubt the love they had for their children for one second. We don't know what went on in this household before JBR's death, esp. regarding Burke and JBR and what really went on between them. The Ramsey's are bad people but they are not the devil himself.



That's true though I think Patsy would have turned John in if she found out that he was abusing their kids. Also, he never abused his older children afaik. Sadly we don't know why both of the children were in therapy though my guess is on Burke was abusing his sister and both were in therapy for that. That would match the Grand Jury's indictment regarding the recklessly and knowingly part. If they knew what went on and sent Burke and JBR to therapy for that and still placed her in a situation like that... It's just so sad.

Very good reasoning about the jury indictment knowing what was going on.

 

[thedutchessbell]

I think the reason why they couldn't find panties and pajama bottoms is because they were incriminating evidence of sexual activity by Burke and were destroyed by JR and PR. If I were going to get rid of the evidence, I would cut them in very itybity pieces and flush them down the toilet bit by bit even if it took a hundred flushes. Did anyone pump the septic tank? Maybe they should call Roto Rooter. Its how I found out that my husband was cheating on me by all of the floating condoms. The reason why JBR had on Burke's longjohns on was for DNA transfer.
Also, JBR hair was brushed and put into ponytails was to remove any of Burks hair or fiber exchange. Most all females with long hair puts in ponytails for bed so PR forgot it was in the a.m.

 

[Swirlz]

Maybe they should call Roto Rooter. Its how I found out that my husband was cheating on me by all of the floating condoms.

Oh, dear.

 

[fr brown]

I ran across new released photo of Jonbenet at the White’s Christmas Party. John released it. I
Remember there was interest in the photo to see what she wearing. I would love to hear input from fellow sleuths.
Google Image Result for https://i2-prod.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article18800954.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/0_New-suspect-unmasked-in-JonnBenet-Ramsey-murder-case-as-serial-killer-theory-emerges.jpg

I think I can make out earrings in this photo. If memory serves, JonBenet had pierced ears. I don't think that her body was found with earrings in place.

Recently I've wondered if laying on a loose earring near the time of death could have made the cheek mark. The earring would have been on its side. The earring backing would have been a sphere, maybe a screw-on. (See my avatar on FFJ.)

The dimensions seem to work, roughly.