IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #2

[mjp1228]

^ I have never believed that Grandpa didn't know the window was open. I don't know exactly what his motivation was in lifting Chloe up to the open window, but there is no way that he thought she'd be banging on glass. The windows are obviously tinted and only open windows would be clear. I think he wanted a clear (and open) view of the port and lifted Chloe up to share the view with him.

I will never believe ‘banging on the glass’ had anything at all to do with what happened on that ship. In the picture the family posted as an example, you can see that Chloe is reacting to something that just happened in front of her. It’s probably as innocent as what I’ve seen happen a hundred times at a rink - her brother probably skated by in warm-ups and tapped on the glass with his stick in front of his little sister - maybe saying hi or even making a silly face. She was REACTING to her big brother. She wasn’t just banging on glass cause it was there. The look on her face shows the joy at seeing her brother and just starting to turn to share with her parents. Just my opinion.

 

[oviedo]

I will never believe ‘banging on the glass’ had anything at all to do with what happened on that ship. In the picture the family posted as an example, you can see that Chloe is reacting to something that just happened in front of her. It’s probably as innocent as what I’ve seen happen a hundred times at a rink - her brother probably skated by in warm-ups and tapped on the glass with his stick in front of his little sister - maybe saying hi or even making a silly face. She was REACTING to her big brother. She wasn’t just banging on glass cause it was there. The look on her face shows the joy at seeing her brother and just starting to turn to share with her parents. Just my opinion.

Yes and I've wondered if they have a fireplace at their home - does she bang on that glass too???
JMO

 

[MsBetsy]

I agree - I think there are truths to be told IMO (and the CCTV on RCCL is astounding)
JMO

Yes, if it's true that the baby was seen on video rocking in and out of the window then I believe the grandpa was "play acting" with her, pretending that she was going to fall, and then catching her, only he failed to catch her and she slipped from his grasp.

But if this is truly what happened I don't know why they are insisting that he just held her up to the window to bang on the glass instead of admitting what he was really doing.

Unless they fear that by admitting it, he will be held accountable.

Either way, he is being charged so if this is what happened they would be better off just telling the truth.

Imo

 

[Montrealaise]

ITA I'm wondering if someone has seen it (perhaps SA's criminal lawyer) and they have discussed it? He seems to be backpeddling at the end IMO. They really just need to stop the threat of the lawsuit or else file it and shut up IMO.

The prosecutors are legally required to give the criminal defense attorney copies of all of their evidence, including the video, so I would be very surprised if SA's lawyer hasn't watched it yet. I understand that the family hasn't seen the video and is still believing grandpa's version of events - but I know that if my child died, I would want to know how and why, even if the truth is painful.

 

[Montrealaise]

Did Chloe’s family really think Royal Caribbean would simply roll over and fork out millions? Of course Royal Caribbean will fight the accusations.

For grandfather charged in girl's cruise ship death, surveillance video likely key evidence

I think that is exactly what the family thought, that RC would give them a big fat settlement just to avoid further negative publicity. The public was initially sympathetic - who wouldn't be, when a family loses a child? - but the display of greed by the family seems to have turned public opinion against them, judging by the comments I've read. Although, to be fair, they probably are relying on that SA told them: that he thought the window was closed and it was an unavoidable accident. I would hate to be in their shoes when they finally learn the truth - that he was grossly negligent.

 

[they'll get you]

I think that is exactly what the family thought, that RC would give them a big fat settlement just to avoid further negative publicity. The public was initially sympathetic - who wouldn't be, when a family loses a child? - but the display of greed by the family seems to have turned public opinion against them, judging by the comments I've read. Although, to be fair, they probably are relying on that SA told them: that he thought the window was closed and it was an unavoidable accident. I would hate to be in their shoes when they finally learn the truth - that he was grossly negligent.

IMO they’ve poked a beast and they’ll be ‘fighting’ all cruise lines worldwide as they must all conform to legal heights and requirements.
Is it CLIA (cruise lines international association) Cruise Industry Regulation who sets these legal heights etc?
They’ll be entering into the argument as they set these standards of safety.

Cruise Industry Regulation
The cruise industry is one of the most heavily regulated industries with robust, clearly defined standards. The average ship undergoes dozens of announced and unannounced safety inspections per year, involving hundreds of man-hours and the implementation of thousands of specific requirements set by the International Maritime Organization (IMO) and other authorities.

 

[book-thinker]

Heartbreaking hearing this story. A grandparent setting a toddler down on a wooden handrail, what about the concern she could easily have fallen back on her head. Also if he thought there was a window why wasn't he concerned of her hitting her head on the glass. I don't understand why he didn't have his arm around her in the first place. Toddlers move around quickly. I would be interested in the distance from the wooden handrail to the glass.
I can't understand how he didn't realize the window was not closed. No matter what any parent or responsible person would have their arms around a small child on a railing.

 

[oviedo]

Heartbreaking hearing this story. A grandparent setting a toddler down on a wooden handrail, what about the concern she could easily have fallen back on her head. Also if he thought there was a window why wasn't he concerned of her hitting her head on the glass. I don't understand why he didn't have his arm around her in the first place. Toddlers move around quickly. I would be interested in the distance from the wooden handrail to the glass.
I can't understand how he didn't realize the window was not closed. No matter what any parent or responsible person would have their arms around a small child on a railing.

Because IMO he did know it was open and that was the point - the video will prove out what exactly happened - I think they now have video of other activities this the delay
JMO

 

[book-thinker]

Because IMO he did know it was open and that was the point - the video will prove out what exactly happened - I think they now have video of other activities this the delay
JMO

If he’s charged with negligent homicide
he should have known the risks associated with sitting the toddler on the wooden rail
looking out a window on a ship.
If he did know the siding glass window was
open why didn’t Puerto Rican prosecutors charge him with a higher charge other than
negligent homicide.

 

[Kittybunny]

"Acto de Juegos" is not proper Spanish. As I mentioned before, it is a literal translation of "Game Act" so don't get too confused with that translation
You can actually translate from English to Spanish "Game act" in google translate and it will result in "Acto de Juegos" as the translation. The problem with the translator is that doing the reverse ("Acto de Juegos" from Spanish to English) it sometimes translates it as "act of games" (it isn't consistent).

I'm chiming in here super late on this, but as an almost native speaker, I can say I've never heard that exact saying, but if I had to translate more idiomatically I would say the speaker was trying to say "in the middle of playing a game."

And I agree that the truth will come out. It's heartbreaking no matter what for everyone. As careless as grandpa may have been, I don't believe for a second it was intentional and he will carry this for the rest of his life.

 

[they'll get you]

These windows lean out so that if someone was in a wheelchair or a child they can still look down. You may be able to see the chest high rail is outward as well so you'd be leaning slightly forward if you were to put your chest on it to see out.

There is a little ledge/step that (maybe) protects the glass from furniture impact where you stand maybe he kicked as I did.

 

[oviedo]

If he’s charged with negligent homicide
he should have known the risks associated with sitting the toddler on the wooden rail
looking out a window on a ship.
If he did know the siding glass window was
open why didn’t Puerto Rican prosecutors charge him with a higher charge other than
negligent homicide.

I think because of intent - he did not mean for her to fall - someone posted the PR definitions on one of these threads and negligent homicide was the charge that fit what the prosecution alleges happened
JMO

 

[they'll get you]

Carnival cruise ship death: US dad dies after falling from balcony
A medical examiner told USA Today Mr Rice died from blunt force trauma. His death was not considered a suicide, the examiner said.

Mr Rice's death comes after 18-month-old Chloe Weigand died in July after falling from an open window on a Royal Caribbean cruise.
https://www.9news.com.au/world/carnival-cruise-ship-death-us-dad-dies-after-falling-from-balcony/f7c3ba74-3bd7-4416-a6cc-9e151be594e5

 

[IceIce9]

If he’s charged with negligent homicide
he should have known the risks associated with sitting the toddler on the wooden rail
looking out a window on a ship.
If he did know the siding glass window was
open why didn’t Puerto Rican prosecutors charge him with a higher charge other than
negligent homicide.

He wouldn’t be charged with murder unless there was intent. Apparently the video demonstrated that he didn’t purposefully drop or throw her out the window or he would have been charged with murder.

A duty was owed and a duty was breached. Grandpa, as the caregiver, owed a duty to care for the child he was responsible for, and when that duty was breached it was a case of negligent homicide.

 

[book-thinker]

Oviedo thank you. There's no winners bringing this case before a judge or jury. I guess accountability on the grandfathers part, but the guilt alone is sentence enough. JMO

The heartbreak this family is going with losing their daughter. The grandfather will be going on trial.
The Chloe's mother and father are suiting royal caribbean for the death of their daughter.

 

[book-thinker]

These windows lean out so that if someone was in a wheelchair or a child they can still look down. You may be able to see the chest high rail is outward as well so you'd be leaning slightly forward if you were to put your chest on it to see out.

There is a little ledge/step that (maybe) protects the glass from furniture impact where you stand maybe he kicked as I did.
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Are these the same type windows? Is the wooden railing attached to metal against the window. It seems to be tinted.

 

[SoCalDavidS]

Are these the same type windows? Is the wooden railing attached to metal against the window. It seems to be tinted.

Yes, they are tinted. Which is why many have said their blaming the cruise line is ridiculous.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Yes, they are tinted. Which is why many have said their blaming the cruise line is ridiculous.

I've enjoyed many (35+) cruise vacations since the mid-1980s. Even on the oldest ships I've sailed, windows on the open upper decks of cruise ships were tinted to prevent glare when guests are dining, swimming, sunbathing, etc. Some of the windows can be opened by passengers to allow ventilation when deck areas are hot and humid. Some passengers might like to stand near these windows for fresh air and/or an ocean breeze, and said passengers definitely know which windows are open and which are closed. Freedom of the Seas was docked in San Juan, s0 SA should have been able to discern which windows were open and those that were closed.

 

[neesaki]

Oviedo thank you. There's no winners bringing this case before a judge or jury. I guess accountability on the grandfathers part, but the guilt alone is sentence enough. JMO

The heartbreak this family is going with losing their daughter. The grandfather will be going on trial.
The Chloe's mother and father are suiting royal caribbean for the death of their daughter.

But what if this had been a nanny / baby sitter caring for Chloe. Are you saying then that there are no consequences of negligent acts that cause the death of tiny children by adult caregivers ? TIA
How can there be no legal repercussions for such a heinous act against a helpless little child ?

 

[mickey2942]

At what point does any type of personal responsibility come into play? We live in a society where everyone wants a payout, for some negligence. Soon, we won't be able to do anything without signs every where, posting about some "danger".

When I was a kid, we played on merry go round's, everyone hung on, and it was spun around until you fell off. Those were deemed "too dangerous", they are gone, and ancient relic. Parks got rid of them for being hazardous.

If the Wiegand family goes through with the lawsuit against Royal Caribbean, what should they change? Wrap all cruise ships into a giant bubble, and coat all surfaces with "Flubber"? So if you do drop your child out a window, she would bounce back? Make it impossible to open windows? What about balconies? They should be walled up too!

It just never ends....