NH NH - Allenstown, Adult Female & 3 Children, found Nov'85 & May'00 #2

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Hello all, I’m a long time follower of this case. First time posting here. I learned today that the baby (Sara) has been separated from Marlyse and her sister. Just for me it doesn’t feel right to separate them. I really wanted to discuss this but didn’t feel anywhere on FB (where I get most info on this case these days) was appropriate. I’ve always been very remorseful to all of the family members involved. But I have to say I find Sara’s dad to be a little suspect. To explain, I happened to be online the moment the links to some of the message boards that led to their identification were shared. Before any of that info got out, probably before it was shared with the authorities. The links were quickly erased and then some arguing between some admins ensued over who found what info blah blah blah, the rest is history. I never said anything or leaked anything because I didn’t want to be thrown out of that particular group. Anyway, now that it’s all out, one thing I noticed in reading these message boards is that Sara’s paternal side of the family was always under the impression that Marlyse was deceased. It was stated on quite a few posts with absolute certainty. Also that Sara was adopted by, and living, with her maternal family. One in particular, the poster states Marlyse died in a car accident. So, my hang up with this is, obviously they knew she was dead. There’s 2 ways they would believe this to be true. Sara’s father knew, or TR relayed that info.. which is it? Did they know each other? If they didn’t then how did he know Marlyse was dead? Also Sara’s dad ended his own life in the early 80’s... all of this has kind of made me wonder about him. Then to find out their earthly remains are being separated.... it’s what made me go back into my notes today and jog my memory about the many questions those posts left me with and why I felt the way I did... I just hope that everyone is at peace with this decision. All families here today, and all in the afterlife...has any of this been discussed before about that side of the family knowing Marlyse was already dead? Anyone have any further insight on that I may have missed?
 
I had never seen the message boards before now - the ones where family members were seeking information on the whereabouts of the three girls. I’m not sure why, but I was surprised to find they are still easily accessible through a simple Google search.

That being said, I’ve read over them and I’m not sure I share your suspicions. IMO, it seems more likely that conclusions had been drawn over time. Or simply easier-to-live-with explanations for their extended absence. The first inquiries that I found made by the family were in 1999/2000, 16-17 years after the death of Sarah’s father and a few years before the first barrel was discovered.

I guess my question would be, if his family knew for sure that Marlyse was dead and that her family had adopted Sarah, why not contact them directly to ask about Sarah? Why wait 15+ years after he died to seek information through online public forums? From what I gathered, each one of the families had been searching for each of them for quite some time.

JMOO. It is heartbreaking to think that all four girls will be physically separated, but I have to believe they will always be together!
 
MadMcGoo said:
I had never seen the message boards before now - the ones where family members were seeking information on the whereabouts of the three girls. I’m not sure why, but I was surprised to find they are still easily accessible through a simple Google search.

That being said, I’ve read over them and I’m not sure I share your suspicions. IMO, it seems more likely that conclusions had been drawn over time. Or simply easier-to-live-with explanations for their extended absence. The first inquiries that I found made by the family were in 1999/2000, 16-17 years after the death of Sarah’s father and a few years before the first barrel was discovered.

I guess my question would be, if his family knew for sure that Marlyse was dead and that her family had adopted Sarah, why not contact them directly to ask about Sarah? Why wait 15+ years after he died to seek information through online public forums? From what I gathered, each one of the families had been searching for each of them for quite some time.

JMOO. It is heartbreaking to think that all four girls will be physically separated, but I have to believe they will always be together!
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That was another question I had was why the families hadn’t contacted each other? Surely they had each other’s names? Although maybe that information went away when Sara’s dad passed and maybe Marlyse family didn’t know much about his family to reach out to them... they did say they believed he died in a motorcycle accident, so I wonder how they heard that?

Another little piece I forgot in my original post is the main person who was searching for Sara did in fact know TR by name and that he was who the girls were last known to be with. I forgot about that. It was reported the search angel who discovered her posts reached out to her on FB, and when she mentioned TR, the angel knew the significance of his name but did not share with her right away.... so that’s interesting. I really think that Sara’s dad may have known TR. Which opens up a flood gate of questions for me.

Those questions may not matter at this point, but maybe some of them do. I have speculated that he may have known the middle child and her mother... I really wish there was a way to find more info on him. Also if Marlyse had a car and how they wound up in NH from Ca in the first place... sigh... there so much we still don’t know and may never find out

I’m not sure if I’m allowed to mention the names of folks who are related and still living, or the search angel...so I’m sure it’s a tad confusing to follow what I’m saying...
 
Mascot2581 said:
That was another question I had was why the families hadn’t contacted each other? Surely they had each other’s names? Although maybe that information went away when Sara’s dad passed and maybe Marlyse family didn’t know much about his family to reach out to them... they did say they believed he died in a motorcycle accident, so I wonder how they heard that?

Another little piece I forgot in my original post is the main person who was searching for Sara did in fact know TR by name and that he was who the girls were last known to be with. I forgot about that. It was reported the search angel who discovered her posts reached out to her on FB, and when she mentioned TR, the angel knew the significance of his name but did not share with her right away.... so that’s interesting. I really think that Sara’s dad may have known TR. Which opens up a flood gate of questions for me.

Those questions may not matter at this point, but maybe some of them do. I have speculated that he may have known the middle child and her mother... I really wish there was a way to find more info on him. Also if Marlyse had a car and how they wound up in NH from Ca in the first place... sigh... there so much we still don’t know and may never find out

I’m not sure if I’m allowed to mention the names of folks who are related and still living, or the search angel...so I’m sure it’s a tad confusing to follow what I’m saying...
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It’s not confusing for those of us who have followed this case for some time. You bring up some very interesting points.
 
The first post I read about Sarah's paternal family looking for her was dated 2000, mere months before the second barrel was found. I never found any older posts, and none mentioning TR (not saying they don't exist, I just never saw them).
Those posts had been screenshots on a blog about the Allenstown victims for years. All the pieces were right there, and no one thought to put them together until that one person discovered them and reached out.
OT: my father had 9 kids (that we know of as of today), by 5 different women. No way would I have been able to contact all my half-siblings back in the 80s looking for another half-sibling, before the internet. So I don't even consider their lack of communication prior to 2000 a mystery. After that, though, it puzzles me they didn't connect, as they were all posting in the same place, but it didn't seem to go anywhere.
I was intrigued by the fact Sarah's paternal family claims they were told Marlyse died in an accident in the early 80s & the maternal grandma adopted her. Someone had to convey that information, and my theory, it was TR. In the 2015 press conference, the AG stated unequivocally that questions were asked and answered. It was the only explanation he could come up with to explain why they remained unidentified for so long.
My theory is Marlyse was in contact with the McWaters up until they were murdered. When she stopped communicating with them, they inquired, and that was what TR told them. It sounds like something he would fabricate, he had to cover all bases. I think that's why & when he hightailed it out of Manchester -it was right around Sarah's birthday, and perhaps her father called to talk to her. And if Sarah's family was back on the east coast, they would have only been a hop, skip & a jump away, so he had to go before they came knocking on his door. Or maybe her father said he was coming to visit. That would have spurred TR into motion, esp. where he was with DB already.
Since we're not allowed to sleuth family, all I can say is chances are, it appears there were few paternal family members around to search for Sarah after her father passed. And he may not have been able to locate Marlyse's family if he didn't have their address & phone number to them in CA. Her paternal sibling would have been a child when she went missing and most likely couldn't have searched for her..
 
Suglo said:
It’s not confusing for those of us who have followed this case for some time. You bring up some very interesting points.
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Agreed. Most of us who have been following for a bit have an idea about the particulars, like who the search angel is and who is who, as far as TR's family, Marlyse's family, and the McWaters' family goes. We're really good at reading between the lines, LOL.
 
Mascot2581 said:
That was another question I had was why the families hadn’t contacted each other? Surely they had each other’s names?
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BBM & snp'd for focus.

I have to respectfully disagree. It's not a sure thing they had each other's names or contact info, esp. back in the 70s/early 80s where communication was limited to expensive long distance phone calls and snail mail. If you lost someone's address & phone number, you lost that person, doubly so if they had a non published phone number. Sarah's paternal family would have had no reason to keep in touch with Sarah's maternal family up until they found out Marlyse was dead. And for all we know, her father could have tried to contact Sarah's maternal family, but maybe couldn't.
 
Is it possible that the middle child’s mother is an identified, but unsolved murder? Perhaps no one knew she had a child they should be looking for and they may not have had/taken identifiers from the perp to be able to make the connection now to TR.
Apologies if this has been discussed.
 
Lewie said:
Is it possible that the middle child’s mother is an identified, but unsolved murder? Perhaps no one knew she had a child they should be looking for and they may not have had/taken identifiers from the perp to be able to make the connection now to TR.
Apologies if this has been discussed.
Click to expand...

I posited something along those lines, that the MC's mother might not be a Jane Doe, but a murder victim of an unsolved murder. But no worries, it was years ago, I think, that I posted that possibility, along with a list of other possible scenarios as to why the 4 remained unidentified for so long.
Some of the other possible reasons why the MC's mother or maternal family haven't come found her:
They may be looking, just not connecting the dots. This happened to Jimmy Reymer-he was from IL & was found in NC. His sister had been looking up until they found him, just not in the right places.
They are estranged from her mother & may not know about her, as you said.
Her mother died of natural causes, had no other family to take the MC in & TR was contacted to come get her
Her mother willingly gave her up and isn't in a position to search for her or has since passed
Her mother was/is incarcerated and has no idea what happened to her daughter.
There's other possibilities, too, including her mother is a Jane Doe that wasn't reported missing or was under-reported.
 
Alleykins said:
I posited something along those lines, that the MC's mother might not be a Jane Doe, but a murder victim of an unsolved murder. But no worries, it was years ago, I think, that I posted that possibility, along with a list of other possible scenarios as to why the 4 remained unidentified for so long.
Some of the other possible reasons why the MC's mother or maternal family haven't come found her:
They may be looking, just not connecting the dots. This happened to Jimmy Reymer-he was from IL & was found in NC. His sister had been looking up until they found him, just not in the right places.
They are estranged from her mother & may not know about her, as you said.
Her mother died of natural causes, had no other family to take the MC in & TR was contacted to come get her
Her mother willingly gave her up and isn't in a position to search for her or has since passed
Her mother was/is incarcerated and has no idea what happened to her daughter.
There's other possibilities, too, including her mother is a Jane Doe that wasn't reported missing or was under-reported.
Click to expand...

I thought that he either took the daughter from the mother and threatened her or her family if she went after him or that he killed her and took the kid.

This case has had a lot of press. Is it possible her mothers family has not seen any of it?

I had made a flier for the missing and unidentified persons FB page I co-own where I was trying to get it in the public's eye. I'll have to see if I can find it in the old thread. I would have to edit it because we found out about Terry after it was written. I think that's the best way to try to target someone that knew her, her mom and moms family.
 
Roselvr said:
I thought that he either took the daughter from the mother and threatened her or her family if she went after him or that he killed her and took the kid.

This case has had a lot of press. Is it possible her mothers family has not seen any of it?

I had made a flier for the missing and unidentified persons FB page I co-own where I was trying to get it in the public's eye. I'll have to see if I can find it in the old thread. I would have to edit it because we found out about Terry after it was written. I think that's the best way to try to target someone that knew her, her mom and moms family.
Click to expand...

Took a lot of looking thru the old thread but I did find the flier

Post 771
Want to link to the PDF of the woman and kids that has isotope maps
post 1111
 
Roselvr said:
I thought that he either took the daughter from the mother and threatened her or her family if she went after him or that he killed her and took the kid.

This case has had a lot of press. Is it possible her mothers family has not seen any of it?

I had made a flier for the missing and unidentified persons FB page I co-own where I was trying to get it in the public's eye. I'll have to see if I can find it in the old thread. I would have to edit it because we found out about Terry after it was written. I think that's the best way to try to target someone that knew her, her mom and moms family.
Click to expand...

If TPR did abscond with the MC as opposed to having guardianship/custody or permission to take her, God only knows what he told the MC's mother and her family to get away with it, or by what other means he achieved it. We learned he was capable of anything, and clever about it.
There's so many possibilities as to why family hasn't claimed the MC, too. I think it's possible they haven't seen any of the press, if there's anyone left to see it, so much time has gone by. Or if/when they see it, they recognize the MC for who she is. Of course, now, with all we know, seeing her associated with some of the recently discovered facts might ring a bell and the light bulb will come on.
Here's hoping.
 
Alleykins said:
If TPR did abscond with the MC as opposed to having guardianship/custody or permission to take her, God only knows what he told the MC's mother and her family to get away with it, or by what other means he achieved it. We learned he was capable of anything, and clever about it.
There's so many possibilities as to why family hasn't claimed the MC, too. I think it's possible they haven't seen any of the press, if there's anyone left to see it, so much time has gone by. Or if/when they see it, they recognize the MC for who she is. Of course, now, with all we know, seeing her associated with some of the recently discovered facts might ring a bell and the light bulb will come on.
Here's hoping.
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They may be more likely to recognize the younger photos of HIM. Perhaps these are the pics that should be out there more. Is his picture on any of the fliers? And perhaps MC needs her own flier with just him and her on it ?
 
A couple of days ago I created a thread for
AZ - Aleca “Lisa” Renee Manning, 22, Phoenix, 17 Feb 1975

I’m sure I’ve seen her name mentioned a few times on various threads but didn’t find one for her specifically so I went ahead and made one for her...

I mentioned there the possibility of her being the mother of MC. Has she been considered? If not, what do y’all think?



 
Since I found out about Marlyse I thought she was Elizabeth.
It's her middle name, why make it more complicated?
I think he was with her and the kids until he met Denise and murdered her (>Marlyse/Elizabeth+children).
He wanted to distance her from her family and definitely the fathers of her children, she, the little weak woman we are not allowed to be but too often are, complied. "I'll call myself by my middle name, Elizabeth, so noone close can contact me or my children. I belong to you now." Sorry, but mothers are scum sometimes. "But he's so hot! Look at those eyes! And he bought a dolls house for my daughter!!" I'm sure it was a cool adventure for Marlyse, until he murdered her.

I think focus should be on the little one. I have sent in a few suggestions of UIDs, but the mother may not even have been one. She may be an unsolved identified murder victim. Or she may have died any other way, traffic accident or whatever. Her family likely (imo) would have not known of this child.

So sad they weren't all kept buried together. They suffered so long together, they belong together.
Makes me wonder did oldest girl's dad know Terry Rasmussen? I think so.

imo, jmo
 
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