Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #117

[southernswede]

Yes, I do focus on BG's body w/o the head b/c it's something I can actually see clear details of. I just can't picture him being any younger than late 30's. I understand they have their methods but every time I hear him say "We don't want to show our hand" it frustrates the heck out of me. And the talk about the sketch is just as confusing as ever the way he tries to explain it, but that's just me. sigh

 

[Evinrude]

try walking while having a 1 inch rod in each pant leg, belt line to knee area. You will notice that you have to walk differently.

 

[FrostedGlass]

This was the quote I posted:

Phone interview with Sheriff Tobe Leazenby

“This one’s just – it’s got a whole new, it’s got a whole twist to it that even I as a 30-year veteran have never seen”.

I don't recall there being a second quote with "twist".

Is the following from you? I didn't note where I got it from and I don't know why I didn't include the question he was asked.

"SL: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Uhhmm that was the same obvious concept or thought process we had as well because um, you know, as I've (stumbles on words and says Excuse me) shared with other outlets, that we've had our share of, even double homicides, but they were elderly folks back in the 90s and it turned out to be, um, unfortunately, grandchildren involved in their deaths, and uh, so yeah, we were able to catch those pretty quick, but uh, umm, this one's just, it's, it's got a whole new, it's got a whole twist to it that, even I, as a 30 year veteran, have never seen."

 

[Deleted member 102539]

.... protecting the integrity of the investigation is key so we cannot release everything because there are certain people that know the details and if we release it all then we get into false confessions,” said Sgt. Holeman."

There is it again: plural .....

 

[BigTexas]

I had a thought. Maybe the reason that we haven't heard anything since April is because LE is realizing that the more they tell us, the more confused people are getting.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

try walking while having a 1 inch rod in each pant leg, belt line to knee area. You will notice that you have to walk differently.

I don't know, if that is really possible, that BG had rods under his pant legs?
How would he have fixed it to his belt or the waistband, I'm wondering.
IF he had a rod/2 rods hidden, maybe Libby recognized it and became anxious? BUT he wasn't that near to her, when she videoed him; was she able to see it? Or did the girls recognized a tool in his pant legs already before, on the trail?
Thinking ....

 

[taximama24]

According to him it is based on the reports of a local living not far from the bridge. If I recall correctly, she tried to confront a trespasser on her property who fled. That apparently happened shortly before the murder, but according to bitterbeatpoet there is supposedly no other connection to the crime. He also claims to have talked to the woman and she said that the second sketch is pretty terrible.

Sketch No1 is based on the testimony of the girl, but apparently the hat is wrong and the face under his nose seems to be a guess, since he covered that part with scarf.

The trespasser story seems to fit however the issues I see with this that are hard to reconcile are 1). LE came out and said sketch #2 is the person responsible for the murders so how can they say that and there really be no other connection to the crime and 2). LE's description of BG states "hat, hoodie, jeans, and jacket" they have never mentioned a scarf. So its hard to know what to think, but in the end its been way too long for anyone to all of a sudden remember someone they saw that day who fits the description so none of that matters today in identifying the suspect, as another poster said "he's not wearing any of that stuff again." What matters now is changes in behavior and appearance of anyone who is roughly the right height (because that isn't changeable) and had the opportunity to be there that day, convincing anyone who knows something they've been holding back to come forward, and if he slips up making sure people can make the connection to the case. Even the DNA angle shouldn't be the priority because there is clearly an issue with whatever they have that has prevented it from bringing this case to justice (unless its simply a matter of the person is not in the system and no lead thus far has led them to test anyone that even partially matches it). MOO

 

[margarita25]

I had a thought. Maybe the reason that we haven't heard anything since April is because LE is realizing that the more they tell us, the more confused people are getting.

Why would anyone be confused? It’s perfectly clear to me. “Disregard the sketch but don’t disregard the sketch, it could be a mixture, people must draw their own conclusions, there’s a twist and there’s a book called The Shack...” - it all makes perfect sense to me.

 

[taximama24]

Also I'm not sure how much I put into the story of the girl who saw someone believed to be BG who gave her a look that frightened her because if BG came across her and her little sister first, what was it about that encounter that allowed them to survive but the next two girls he came across were murdered? If this account is true, then that leads me to believe this was not random and Libby and/or Abby were targeted.

 

[sunshineray]

I think many have forgotten that his property wasn't the only one searched.

"By Friday, March 16, 2017, Indiana State Police Sgt. Tony Slocum said over twelve search warrants had been issued in relation to the Delphi Murders investigation, with the latest being executed by State and Federal police at the property of 77-year-old Ronald Logan, where Abigail and Liberty were found positioned down a steep incline behind his residence."

Liberty German – True Crime Articles

Yes, thanks for the link Judi. I was talking about two of the three former FBI agents in that podcast mentioned thay they thought the crime scene was a predetermined lair that BG brought the girls to, so killer's use of RL's property was planned. Wondering if any of those other searches were near RL's property or were associated with people who would of had knowledge of his property?

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Pulled out one article. It is somewhat primitive as there are mixed learners.

How to Spot Visual, Auditory, and Kinesthetic-Learning Executives

I’d guess the BG is a cut between visual and kinesthetic learner

Really interesting observations, @Charlot123! Also true about there being many "mixed learners" ("mixed-up" learners, too! -- as well as a few "mixed-up" teachers! ).

 

[Tiger Stripes]

Excellent work at mind-mapping, @Falling Down! Thanks for your efforts in giving us@WS a better sense of the terrain, distances, etc. Gives clarity!

 

[Evinrude]

I don't know, if that is really possible, that BG had rods under his pant legs?
How would he have fixed it to his belt or the waistband, I'm wondering.
IF he had a rod/2 rods hidden, maybe Libby recognized it and became anxious? BUT he wasn't that near to her, when she videoed him; was she able to see it? Or did the girls recognized a tool in his pant legs already before, on the trail?
Thinking ....

Lets see here, long tube numchuks would be one way. Could be used for many fiffetent things. Sex crime, weapon, etc. There are other ways to keep a rod or two in a pant leg too. It would t necessarily take a rocket surgeon to come up with a solution. jmo

 

[weepingangel]

Ignore the hat

I can’t wait to open this thread and see ARREST in the title. Soon let’s hope

Why would anyone be confused? It’s perfectly clear to me. “Disregard the sketch but don’t disregard the sketch, it could be a mixture, people must draw their own conclusions, there’s a twist and there’s a book called The Shack...” - it all makes perfect sense to me.

 

[Boxer]

Also I'm not sure how much I put into the story of the girl who saw someone believed to be BG who gave her a look that frightened her because if BG came across her and her little sister first, what was it about that encounter that allowed them to survive but the next two girls he came across were murdered? If this account is true, then that leads me to believe this was not random and Libby and/or Abby were targeted.

Weren't the first girls at FB at the circle with benches?
I would think most criminals would think it not isolated enough.

 

[taximama24]

Weren't the first girls at FB at the circle with benches?
I would think most criminals would think it not isolated enough.

I guess I assumed at some point before or after they were actually hiking and without being able to guarantee he would later come across more young girls in a more secluded setting, if he were truly on the hunt to kill that day you would think he would have at least keyed in on them a little more than walking by and giving them a frightening look. It may have happened I guess...

 

[Tiger Stripes]

It's possible the partial DNA sequence was enough to reveal certain features that matched NBG sketch over the OBG sketch...

(S/BBM)

There you go! So (for the evil one who did this deed, and who drops by WS from time to time, and to this forum) his days of freedom are numbered. (Truly, human beings are amazingly designed...)

[He goes back to eating his Cheetos...]

 

[max99]

I guess I assumed at some point before or after they were actually hiking and without being able to guarantee he would later come across more young girls in a more secluded setting, if he were truly on the hunt to kill that day you would think he would have at least keyed in on them a little more than walking by and giving them a frightening look. It may have happened I guess...

The story was relayed as a 16 year old girl and three of her friends on their way out of the trails at the FB entrance. She took a selfie and sent to her mother at 1:26 at the benches. She saw BG after that as he was entering the trails and said hi and he gave her a look that terrified her. She later told the police about the incident when she heard Abby and Libby were missing. Her three friends did not notice BG. The man she described was the same man in the video. She had not seen the video at this point. The two sisters did not see BG. The man of the arguing couple also provided a description of BG matching the video.

 

[JnRyan]

I had a thought. Maybe the reason that we haven't heard anything since April is because LE is realizing that the more they tell us, the more confused people are getting.

One item I read one time stated that when you have a missing or murdered family member, you should have a spokesperson. And family and friends should have ONE spokesperson. This way it avoids confusion.
LE in this case has had two ISP spokespersons, one is Sgt Kim Riley and another who has not been seen that often after the first few weeks. Then we have the county sheriff, lead investigator 1st Sgt Holeman and ISP Superintendent Carter. I'm wondering if this hasn't added to the confusion. And with regard to the family we have Liberty's grandparents, her sister Kelsi and more recently Abigail's mother. While I do believe having all of these persons has really helped keep the case in public view, I wonder if it hasn't been part of the confusion.

 

[Justice101]

Agree. A flat below a cemetery bunkered off by the berms of an old gravel pit, just seems local knowledge to me even though it is possible a stranger could potentially find it and use it.

Completely agree. When you look at Google Maps using topography filter, I said very early on that the killer picked the perfect spot to kill the girls. It's far enough from the creek to not be seen (even in February with no leaves). It's far enough and down a steep slope from the cemetery to not be an easy place to hike to (and besides it doesn't go anywhere). It's also reachable from the NW end of the bridge (albeit around the side of a steep slope then straight down). But the biggest thing is there is a natural (or manmade) gravel pit like you said. Completely deadens sounds etc.

This was extremely well planned out in my opinion. Or he is the luckiest suck there has ever been for choosing a place to do his immoral and heinous deeds.