GUILTY CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #69

[CHEVYMAN]

She was an adult and do adult children listen? (Little humor)
Also you can't really leave the state and go home if you share a child. Just imo.

I was talking about her going back home long before either one of her pregnancies. She was treated like garbage and pretty much a doormat from the very first night she got there. That's the time you realize you made a mistake and you cut your loses and go home. You don't choose the solution of getting pregnant not one time but twice. That was her decision. I agree once there is a little baby involved it's not easy to go back home. The point that i have been trying to make is that the baby was an intentional decision on her part. She thought the baby would turn the mental case into a man. The problem being he did not want a baby or a family. So he decided he could make due with the baby but Kelsey was not needed.

 

[BeckyF]

One thing I do not recall being stated. When KL says "we unloaded the tote", did anybody ask her how heavy it
was? Or do we know.

I've wondered the same thing.

 

[justaparent]

That wouldn't be in Seattle, would it? I've heard that's what they do there.

I personally know that is one place but I am aware of several others where they do the same thing.

 

[BeckyF]

B


Here, employees are typically told to just let people leave with stolen items, not to question them at all. I think some still do it but in many retail stores they just let it go. I think that in part it is a safety thing for employees, even if their positions are to control theft.

But they watch people who they know have come in for the sole purpose of theft and call LE if the person leaves with merchandise not paid for. Not that it does a lot of good.

I think most employees are told to not get involved. Where I live just recently an employee confronted a shoplifter in the parking lot of a menards and the shoplifter ran over the employee with her car and the employee is in critical condition.

 

[justaparent]

I was talking about her going back home long before either one of her pregnancies. She was treated like garbage and pretty much a doormat from the very first night she got there. That's the time you realize you made a mistake and you cut your loses and go home. You don't choose the solution of getting pregnant not one time but twice. That was her decision. I agree once there is a little baby involved it's not easy to go back home. The point that i have been trying to make is that the baby was an intentional decision on her part. She thought the baby would turn the mental case into a man. The problem being he did not want a baby or a family. So he decided he could make due with the baby but Kelsey was not needed.

it’s possible she went there because she was pregnant and felt either trapped or obligated. And once there, she may have felt she was stuck. I’m sure that he could be charming in between the times he was a monster and he probably filled her head with lies from the moment he met her. She could’ve written off his terrible treatment of her as occasional lapses, especially if a pregnancy made her feel obligated to stay.

JMO

 

[BeckyF]

The interview was after they found the blood on the toilet in the condo. She knew something was wrong and she was very careful with what she said. She had to be.

I’ll agree to disagree as I believe KB did tell her mom some of the bad stuff.

Her mom did testify that KB was called a hooker by PF's mom.

 

[justaparent]

As long as the instrument comes BEFORE the surgeon needs it, they don’t notice.

I’ve seen her referred to as a surgical pre-op nurse and a surgical nurse, which are two different things. Do we know for sure which she was, although at this point I don’t think it really matters.

 

[CHEVYMAN]

it’s possible she went there because she was pregnant and felt either trapped or obligated. And once there, she may have felt she was stuck. I’m sure that he could be charming in between the times he was a monster and he probably filled her head with lies from the moment he met her. She could’ve written off his terrible treatment of her as occasional lapses, especially if a pregnancy made her feel obligated to stay.

JMO

I have been following along pretty close since the beginning and i am pretty sure most of the time they spent together before she moved to Colorado was conversing on the computer. i don't think you can get pregnant that way. I think her first pregnancy happened a short time after she moved herself into the snake pit. I don't buy that he dazzled her with BS. Lets not forget we are talking about a very smart woman here. Kelsey was not a stupid person. She had a goal. She thought she could make it work. There is zero doubt in my mind that she was head over heals in love with this man. Strangely i have heard nothing in the way of affection coming from him towards her. Only abuse. Shouldn't there have been a clue there for her there? Either a person loves you or he don't. We all know now that he is not capable of loving anybody. Kelsey should have seen this in the very beginning.

 

[MemPat]

I’ve seen her referred to as a surgical pre-op nurse and a surgical nurse, which are two different things. Do we know for sure which she was, although at this point I don’t think it really matters.

Exactly!

There may have been a time when people heard KK's name and perhaps remembered her as the Rodeo Queen and then as a professional...a nurse.

Not any more.

Now they hear her name and the first thought is convicted felon, planner of 3 (maybe 4) murder plots, cleaner of a bloody crime scene, destroyer of a young mother's body, serial cheater over her adult lifetime and an established liar.

The fact that circumstances forced her to spill the beans on Patrick will buy her no friends and admirers.

It may not be the justice we wanted but it is a measure of justice.

 

[MemPat]

I have been following along pretty close since the beginning and i am pretty sure most of the time they spent together before she moved to Colorado was conversing on the computer. i don't think you can get pregnant that way. I think her first pregnancy happened a short time after she moved herself into the snake pit. I don't buy that he dazzled her with BS. Lets not forget we are talking about a very smart woman here. Kelsey was not a stupid person. She had a goal. She thought she could make it work. There is zero doubt in my mind that she was head over heals in love with this man. Strangely i have heard nothing in the way of affection coming from him towards her. Only abuse. Shouldn't there have been a clue there for her? Either a person loves you or he don't. We all know now that he is not capable of loving anybody. Kelsey should have seen this in the very beginning.

BBM

Even if you hadn't made it clear you are not a woman,
it is clear you are not a woman.

It's also clear you haven't had discussions with lots of smart women who've had stars in their eyes and loved a man in spite of himself.

Women often don't hear words or see actions through the same lens men might.

It happens a lot and, though the repercussions aren't always as great as Kelsey's, they are often life-altering.

Regarding your final sentence, a wise psychologist once told me, "Don't should on yourself and don't should on others." Some of the best advice I ever got. He said to substitute, "Wouldn't it be nice if...."

Wouldn't it have been nice if Kelsey had seen Patrick Frazee for what he was in the very beginning?" Yes.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

I have been following along pretty close since the beginning and i am pretty sure most of the time they spent together before she moved to Colorado was conversing on the computer. i don't think you can get pregnant that way. I think her first pregnancy happened a short time after she moved herself into the snake pit. I don't buy that he dazzled her with BS. Lets not forget we are talking about a very smart woman here. Kelsey was not a stupid person. She had a goal. She thought she could make it work. There is zero doubt in my mind that she was head over heals in love with this man. Strangely i have heard nothing in the way of affection coming from him towards her. Only abuse. Shouldn't there have been a clue there for her there? Either a person loves you or he don't. We all know now that he is not capable of loving anybody. Kelsey should have seen this in the very beginning.

These jerks enjoy manipulating smart women. They get a high off if it.

 

[BeckyF]

Exactly!

There may have been a time when people heard KK's name and perhaps remembered her as the Rodeo Queen and then as a professional...a nurse.

Not any more.

Now they hear her name and the first thought is convicted felon, planner of 3 (maybe 4) murder plots, cleaner of a bloody crime scene, destroyer of a young mother's body, serial cheater over her adult lifetime and an established liar.

The fact that circumstances forced her to spill the beans on Patrick will buy her no friends and admirers.

It may not be the justice we wanted but it is a measure of justice.

Thank you for putting this in perspective. None of us have any control over the plea deal this person received. We can hope she doesn't ever get a good night's sleep or loses custody of her children, is unemployable, but in the end, there is really nothing we can do.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

BBM

Even if you hadn't made it clear you were not a woman,
it is clear you are not a woman.

It's also clear you haven't had discussions with lots of smart women who've had stars in their eyes and loved a man in spite of himself.

They often don't hear words or see actions through the same lens you might.

It happens a lot and, though the repercussions aren't always as great as Kelsey's, they are often life-altering.

Regarding your final sentence, a wise psychologist once told me, "Don't should on yourself and don't should on others." Some of the best advice I ever got. He said to substitute, "Wouldn't it be nice if...."

Wouldn't it have been nice if Kelsey had seen Patrick Frazee for what he was in the very beginning?" Yes.

Thank you for stating this so articulately. I couldn't find the right words. I also don't think anyone should be victim bashing. Espccially when one can't walk in even that gender's shoes.

 

[Aydrianna523]

I have been following along pretty close since the beginning and i am pretty sure most of the time they spent together before she moved to Colorado was conversing on the computer. i don't think you can get pregnant that way. I think her first pregnancy happened a short time after she moved herself into the snake pit. I don't buy that he dazzled her with BS. Lets not forget we are talking about a very smart woman here. Kelsey was not a stupid person. She had a goal. She thought she could make it work. There is zero doubt in my mind that she was head over heals in love with this man. Strangely i have heard nothing in the way of affection coming from him towards her. Only abuse. Shouldn't there have been a clue there for her there? Either a person loves you or he don't. We all know now that he is not capable of loving anybody. Kelsey should have seen this in the very beginning.

I read a little bit about narcissists. The love bombing reels women in somehow. I think it was even a female doctor who wrote about getting reeled in by a narcissist. Unfortunately, I can't remember how she explained it. She said it doesn't even matter your intelligence.

 

[BeckyF]

I have been following along pretty close since the beginning and i am pretty sure most of the time they spent together before she moved to Colorado was conversing on the computer. i don't think you can get pregnant that way. I think her first pregnancy happened a short time after she moved herself into the snake pit. I don't buy that he dazzled her with BS. Lets not forget we are talking about a very smart woman here. Kelsey was not a stupid person. She had a goal. She thought she could make it work. There is zero doubt in my mind that she was head over heals in love with this man. Strangely i have heard nothing in the way of affection coming from him towards her. Only abuse. Shouldn't there have been a clue there for her there? Either a person loves you or he don't. We all know now that he is not capable of loving anybody. Kelsey should have seen this in the very beginning.

Whether she should have seen it or shouldn't have seen it doesn't matter. MANY smart women are still dedicated to their partners once they have made a decision to be with this man. She thought she could soften him. She was far from home and maybe her upbringing had taught her to 'hang in there'. She just didn't realize the depth of his evil.

 

[bonjoviblonde]

I have been following along pretty close since the beginning and i am pretty sure most of the time they spent together before she moved to Colorado was conversing on the computer. i don't think you can get pregnant that way. I think her first pregnancy happened a short time after she moved herself into the snake pit. I don't buy that he dazzled her with BS. Lets not forget we are talking about a very smart woman here. Kelsey was not a stupid person. She had a goal. She thought she could make it work. There is zero doubt in my mind that she was head over heals in love with this man. Strangely i have heard nothing in the way of affection coming from him towards her. Only abuse. Shouldn't there have been a clue there for her there? Either a person loves you or he don't. We all know now that he is not capable of loving anybody. Kelsey should have seen this in the very beginning.

Yeah, she was a smart woman but it's a real shame she wasn't smart enough not to get herself murdered, right?

 

[Aydrianna523]

It still is SO baffling. There's often red flags, but it can be so hard to tell if the husband/SO's anger problems will lead to murder. I think that's what all of us really want to know. Will they cross that line?
I suppose if there's any frequent anger issues (especially over minor things) you should high tail it out of there. Yet I know gals who stay with angry husbands. Does that mean they're in danger?
It's all a bit worrisone.

 

[MassGuy]

It still is SO baffling. There's often red flags, but it can be so hard to tell if the husband/SO's anger problems will lead to murder. I think that's what all of us really want to know. Will they cross that line?
I suppose if there's any frequent anger issues (especially over minor things) you should high tail it out of there. Yet I know gals who stay with angry husbands. Does that mean they're in danger?
It's all a bit worrisone.

We’re looking at this with both the benefit of hindsight, and with the knowledge of things that Kelsey didn’t know.

For every man that does what Patrick Frazee did, there are many more who don’t escalate to physical violence, let alone murder.

My sense is that had there not been a child involved, Kelsey would have run for the hills. He may have been charming and wonderful in the beginning, and those concerning warning signs came far too late.

After the baby.

We don’t know what she knew. We don’t know what she went through. And the one thing we do know, is that she wasn’t able to make a decision in regards to their future.

The story is incomplete, and always will be. That’s why it’s hard to criticize anything.

Impossible even.

They weren’t living together. They weren’t on the verge of living together.

And she never saw it coming.

 

[MemPat]

These jerks enjoy manipulating smart women. They get a high off if it.

Yes, I believe they are terribly conflicted....needing to fill up that narcissistic hole and hating the people they need to fill it.

 

[MemPat]

It still is SO baffling. There's often red flags, but it can be so hard to tell if the husband/SO's anger problems will lead to murder. I think that's what all of us really want to know. Will they cross that line?
I suppose if there's any frequent anger issues (especially over minor things) you should high tail it out of there. Yet I know gals who stay with angry husbands. Does that mean they're in danger?
It's all a bit worrisone.

A common denominator in these situations is the angry partner losing control and then being "oh-so-sorry" followed by a terribly romantic make-up period.

It starts to become a pattern that's hard to break, especially when your heart of hearts wants to make a perfect family for your child.