GUILTY CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #69

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justaparent said:
it’s possible she went there because she was pregnant and felt either trapped or obligated. And once there, she may have felt she was stuck. I’m sure that he could be charming in between the times he was a monster and he probably filled her head with lies from the moment he met her. She could’ve written off his terrible treatment of her as occasional lapses, especially if a pregnancy made her feel obligated to stay.

JMO
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We have to remember that he was living 2 lives...the one where he told all his friends that she was an alcoholic, abusive mother, mentally ill, etc. The other life was how he strung KB along...she lost the baby, I am sure he told her they’d have another one. He told her he loved her, that they would be a family. Probably that he considered them to be married, but they’d have a real wedding soon. He was playing her for something most likely money, she was a pilot, her parents retired farmers. He was evil, she was innocent.
 
iambarb2 said:
At 79 yr old, I know how to let insults roll off my back. Thank you.
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I sure didn't mean to insult you, Barb, if you're talking to me.

I wrote that post in a totally lighthearted manner and sure didn't mean to offend anyone but I am glad to know there's someone here older than my 70 year old self!

It's great to meet you. Let's start over.
 
MemPat said:
I sure didn't mean to insult you, Barb, if you're talking to me.

I wrote that post in a totally lighthearted manner and sure didn't mean to offend anyone but I am glad to know there's someone here older than my 70 year old self!

It's great to meet you. Let's start over.
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Oh man, I just remember those early days.

“Kelsey loves her dog,” instead of what CB actually said, “Kelsey loves her God.”

@cody22 was speculating that the dog ate the cinnamon rolls, and things quickly went downhill from there.

We have a weird sense of humor on here.
 
justaparent said:
It seems to me that the UK is somewhat light on sentences overall (looking as an outsider). But look at many areas of the USA and you will see that the same thing exists. Especially for crimes against children. I can never understand how some judges and juries put so little value on the lives of the most vulnerable members of our society that they simply seem to let it go. Ditto with rape. And where I live people who have committed very serious crimes are regularly let out on bail, even if it is murder. Around here it’s the luck of the draw for violent criminals.

Find me a perfect place to go and I’ll be on my way, but I’m not sure that exists.

JMO
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Agreed and that kind of madness is getting worse, in the US, under the false ruse of "criminal justice reform". I just saw a mother (American) interviewed on TV whose son was stabbed to death, by a stranger, and the DA (Baltimore, I believe) reduced the charge to a misdemeanor and the killer got PROBATION and then gloated about it along with members of the community supporting him. New York state is dropping bail for violent and dangerous offenders - including sexual assault on children and rape - and will be offering baseball game tickets as an incentive to return for court. It's like Satan has taken over.

I've never really believed in "justice" because when violent damage is done, there's no undoing it, but I'm glad that Patrick Frazee will be rotting in prison until he's dead. At least Kelsey's family gets that much.
 
I've finally realized why I have so much disdain for KK and her plea deal. It's taken me awhile. I realized that a lot of my disdain for her is because there are people who have been wrongly convicted of crimes and spent years incarcerated only to be proven innocent. And people who have spent years in prison for a minor drug offense (just an example) But that's a whole different issue. What she did is so much worse. IMO.
 
BeckyF said:
I've finally realized why I have so much disdain for KK and her plea deal. It's taken me awhile. I realized that a lot of my disdain for her is because there are people who have been wrongly convicted of crimes and spent years incarcerated only to be proven innocent. And people who have spent years in prison for a minor drug offense (just an example) But that's a whole different issue. What she did is so much worse. IMO.
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Yes. But what she did is put a vicious killer behind bars. That would not have happened without her cooperation.

I wish she could have served a life sentence, and both she and PF shared the same fate.

Without her, this was not a murder case. Without her, Kelsey’s murder would have gone unpunished.

I hate it. I love it.

That should be a song.
 
scdiv said:
The problem is that most normal, loving, giving, humane people don't even think this way. Most people have a conscience and a moral compass, and don't recognize the evil in someone until it is too late. And PF was still playing the role of Kelsey's boyfriend. He was trashing her around town to literally everyone else, but to her, he was still agreeing to come to her company holiday party. I don't think she got pregnant to lock him down. I think she really believed they were a couple and had a future. And he likely fed her all the right lines to keep her around.

This is from the book "Without Conscience" by Robert D. Hare. He writes that the term psychopath is too loosely used, that it conjures up images of crazed killers in horror movies. But Hare writes, "Their acts result not from a deranged mind, but from a cold, calculating rationality combined with a chilling inability to treat others as thinking, feeling human beings." He writes that some are shaped by their environment. Others are simply wired wrong.

"They selfishly take what they want and do as they please, violating social norms and expectations without the slightest sense of guilt or regret. Their bewildered victims desperately ask, 'Who are these people?"
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I think she was naive and caught up in a fantasy. Remember, he abused her to her to face. Whatever she shared with her hometown girlfriend led that friend to say she thought PF was abusive. Then the herding cows deal, where JM witnessed PF berating her and even cussing her out. I think the abusive and controlling behavior likely began early in the relationship. Like so many other people in these relationships with cluster Bs, she probably just kept trying harder and hoping he'd change.
 
Owutatangledweb said:
Thank you for stating this so articulately. I couldn't find the right words. I also don't think anyone should be victim bashing. Espccially when one can't walk in even that gender's shoes.
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That's not victim bashing.

Men get conned by cluster Bs, too. Not as many get killed (though some do) but they get their lives ruined, just as women do.
 
Aydrianna523 said:
It still is SO baffling. There's often red flags, but it can be so hard to tell if the husband/SO's anger problems will lead to murder. I think that's what all of us really want to know. Will they cross that line?
I suppose if there's any frequent anger issues (especially over minor things) you should high tail it out of there. Yet I know gals who stay with angry husbands. Does that mean they're in danger?
It's all a bit worrisone.
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That's it. When dealing with these people you just don't know the depth of their derangement.

I had a ten year relationship with a narc. At one point, we had broken up and he was dating some woman he felt compelled to tell me about. They'd only spent time together a few times and one time she was late arriving at his place and he flipped out on her for being late and not calling. She cut the relationship off right there because she recognized his need to control. Smart girl. Wish I could say the same about myself who, like Kelsey, moved across the county for his worthless *advertiser censored*. Some of us are smarter and have higher self esteem than others. That's not to say we aren't smart in other areas of life. One can be smart, talented, skilled and even very successful and still be prey for a cluster B.
 
"Know yourself. Psychopaths are skilled at detecting and ruthlessly exploiting your weak spots. Your best defense is to understand what these spots are and to be extremely wary of anyone who zeroes in on them."

-Dr Robert Hare, How to Spot Social Predators Before they Attack

Good site here: Traits of the Psychopath’s Victim | Psychopaths and Love

BTW, Robert Hare speaks not just as a professional but as someone who has manipulated by psychopaths. Nearly anyone (but not everyone) can be conned by them.
 
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