GUILTY CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - *Arrest* #70

[Ccging]

From the Teller County Property Records:

Owner Name BERRETH, KELSEY M
Mailing Address PO BOX 395
LACLEDE, ID 838410395
Physical Address 269 E LAKE AVE
Area LOFT VILLAGE TOWNHOMES
Legal Description L7 LOFT VILLAGE SUBDIVISION

Teller County Property Records Database

Thanks! I could have sworn early on I read that her parents purchased it in the LLC’s name. Strange.

 

[osu]

Which made Patrick look even more guilty, if you ask me. Kelsey's Mom had asked Patrick to check on the package and pick it up, if it was there. So camera or not, he would have been fine to check on the package.

I just want to know what this guy was doing there in previous visits. It also makes you wonder about the neighbor getting the camera because she thought she was being stalked- poor lady! Thank goodness she got that camera, though. At least they busted Patrick on his lie about their "custody exchange" and that they were already broken up.

I hope LE asked the neighbor who was stalking her? If it was an ex or a stranger that she had noticed hanging around the alley/parking area?

I also found it strange that the neighbor had the camera pointed directly at Kelsey’s door (I’m so glad that she did), but thought it would make more sense to have a security camera pointed at her own property? One article, I think it’s the ‘Inside the Patrick Frazee Trial’ article, said the neighbor had 3 security cameras. One pointing towards Kelsey’s door, another pointed toward the bedroom and a third camera pointed out to the alley/parking area. Does anyone else think it’s strange that the neighbors camera was pointed right at Kelsey’s door?

I wonder if these were areas of concern for the neighbor, perhaps seeing someone walking around outside of Kelsey’s townhouse, possibly peering into windows at night or a stranger sitting in a vehicle out in the parking area?

JMO

 

[dkryder]

Thanks! I could have sworn early on I read that her parents purchased it in the LLC’s name. Strange.

i remember reading it was purchased by the parents and at some point put in her [KB] name.

 

[lindaromas]

Thanks! I could have sworn early on I read that her parents purchased it in the LLC’s name. Strange.

I believe Kelsey is part of the LLC if you notice the mailing address is in Idaho. When one listed in an LLC passes it must then be assigned to the surviving members of that LLC.

 

[justaparent]

From the article:

Once filled with warmth, a baby’s laughter and the promise of good things to come, a townhouse in Woodland Park sits cold and empty, with drawn shades and crusted snow on the walkway.

[...]

The court system will now need to discharge the residence in a probate proceeding, likely to her family in Idaho.

[…]

As with other residences where a homicide, another felonious crime or a suicide occurred, the home could carry the label of a “stigmatized property,” should it be listed for sale or leased.

The real estate term is defined as anything about a property that causes a negative opinion about it.

[...]

Reporters and television crews have banged on windows and doors, to the point that residents now call the police whenever someone comes knocking.

“The police are here in 1-2 minutes,” the resident said. “We’ve been bothered so much.”

[…]

If a seller requests that such a fact not be disclosed, however, a Realtor must abide by that order.

Stigmatized properties sometimes sell for less than market value, but that’s not always the case, Harper said.

Many people simple aren’t bothered by what happened in the past, unless say, there’s a physical reminder, such as a lingering odor.

[…]

Berreth’s family could decide to sell the home immediately or not sell it at all.

Sometimes sellers just want to get rid of a property, Harper said, because of feelings or memories tied to it.

In that case, “It’s really a seller’s stigma and not a buyer’s stigma.”

[…]

at least not all states allow a real estate agent to keep information from a buyer if asked about it. They generally don’t have to disclose it unless they are asked but if they are, and they do not spill it, they can be reprimanded or lose their license.

I don’t know how many states have the same law that Colorado must have. That’s basically lying to a buyer.

 

[justaparent]

I believe Kelsey is part of the LLC if you notice the mailing address is in Idaho. When one listed in an LLC passes it must then be assigned to the surviving members of that LLC.

i remember reading it was purchased by the parents and at some point put in her [KB] name.

This may end up being a double post for some reason. If it is, sorry about that.

Does the Colorado secretary of state or another legal entity not publish member names of LLCs?

I haven’t looked.

 

[Ccging]

This may end up being a double post for some reason. If it is, sorry about that.

Does the Colorado secretary of state or another legal entity not publish member names of LLCs?

I haven’t looked.

I don’t know about Colorado.

Their original LLC is in Washington, KB is not an owner/member.

 

[Seattle1]

i remember reading it was purchased by the parents and at some point put in her [KB] name.

I recall this was discussed at length last year. The business nature of the Berreth and/or parents owned LLC was identified as "home loan financing." KB was the legal owner of her townhome and the LLC would essentially be a lienholder unless KB later obtained a bank loan. As the owner, it follows that KB's townhome is a probate asset in Colorado.

MOO

 

[Dontknow?]

So much of their relationship most likely will never be revealed. Answers none of us can answer, only speculate. So many questions still, but the facts on Kelsey's death will always stick with me.

Horrible death by a dumb mamma's boy will always stick. 32 or so and still at home, fighting his siblings for the franch so he doesn't lose his paradise. I bet some of his videos were to make it look like he did something as far as work to fight his siblings over the property/franch. Norman Bates and his mother...

 

[Artis]

So much of their relationship most likely will never be revealed. Answers none of us can answer, only speculate. So many questions still, but the facts on Kelsey's death will always stick with me.

Horrible death by a dumb mamma's boy will always stick. 32 or so and still at home, fighting his siblings for the franch so he doesn't lose his paradise. I bet some of his videos were to make it look like he did something as far as work to fight his siblings over the property/franch. Norman Bates and his mother...

Yes, there's a lot we don't and will never know, including about Kelsey and what happened with her that set her on the trajectory to get involved with an abuser. People tend to project about victims, ascribing them motivations, desires, attributes and flaws that are unfounded based upon the limited information we usually have. About all we really know about Kelsey is that she was nice, guarded, a giver, loved her baby girl and had an exceptional gift for flying planes.

I watched a Dateline, last night, about a guy named Winkler who killed two wives. In both cases, he met his wives when they were on the rebound from failed relationships. The same thing happened with me when I took my ten year journey with a narc. I look back on it, now, and I may as well have had a flashing sign on my head that said "Wounded: Easy Prey". Shannan Watts, too (failed marriage and poor health). I've wondered if Kelsey had a previous boyfriend with whom things didn't work out and she might have been extra vulnerable when she turned to that online dating site. I'll bet those sites are full of predators. Whatever was going on with her, there was a vulnerability that he picked up on and got this guarded, cautious, young woman to make a major move into his sphere of control.

 

[Artis]

I recall this was discussed at length last year. The business nature of the Berreth and/or parents owned LLC was identified as "home loan financing." KB was the legal owner of her townhome and the LLC would essentially be a lienholder unless KB later obtained a bank loan. As the owner, it follows that KB's townhome is a probate asset in Colorado.

MOO

Wouldn't asset with a lien automatically revert to the lien holder? IOW, any probate proceedings would just be a formality?

I've heard Suzi Orman say that we should all have our assets in living, revocable trusts. I don't know if that also requires establishing an LLC or if it's the same thing the Berreths established.

Q. Any assets that PF may end up with from his father's estate - would the Berreths be able to add those to their civil suit and secure them for Baby K?

 

[PommyMommy]

NOV 26, 2019
Finding faith: Friends and fellow worshipers react to fate of Kelsey Berreth's killer

 

[Oregon]

I hope LE asked the neighbor who was stalking her? If it was an ex or a stranger that she had noticed hanging around the alley/parking area?

I also found it strange that the neighbor had the camera pointed directly at Kelsey’s door (I’m so glad that she did), but thought it would make more sense to have a security camera pointed at her own property? One article, I think it’s the ‘Inside the Patrick Frazee Trial’ article, said the neighbor had 3 security cameras. One pointing towards Kelsey’s door, another pointed toward the bedroom and a third camera pointed out to the alley/parking area. Does anyone else think it’s strange that the neighbors camera was pointed right at Kelsey’s door?

I wonder if these were areas of concern for the neighbor, perhaps seeing someone walking around outside of Kelsey’s townhouse, possibly peering into windows at night or a stranger sitting in a vehicle out in the parking area?

JMO

Security cameras have a bigger range than you think. The neighbor is focusing on the side of her house. KB’s door and the parking lot are just in the cameras field of vision, it’s peripheral vision. If she had been focusing on KB’s door the picture would have been very clear and would have had clear pictures of the interior and people entering her home.

 

[Steelslady]

Thanks! I could have sworn early on I read that her parents purchased it in the LLC’s name. Strange.

They did help purchase the condo, but put it in Kelsey's name.

 

[Steelslady]

I think maybe he had been to the townhouse previously but not to actually visit KB. Maybe he had been there to keep an eye on KB for PF?

And he said during testimony that the neighbors cameras were “fairly obvious” so he was aware that they were there and told PF to stay in the truck when they went to get the package from the porch.



JMO

I forgot yesterday in my other comment to say-


Exactly! He quite clearly was not there to visit Kelsey, to whom he couldn't stand and let the world know how he felt about her in a negative fashion, while putting dumdum on a pedestal.

So just what was he doing there, and is it possible that he scared the other lady, as she might have thought he was watching her condo, too, giving her the thought that he was stalking her? Obviously the poor woman was scared enough to put a camera up, and he just happened to know where all the cameras were in the surrounding neighborhood? Doesn't sound like to me he was there just once or twice to say, pick up the baby with Patrick or something. This guy was scouting out the neighborhood, if you ask me, for some reason. Who the heck notices cameras on surrounding neighbors' properties unless you are looking for them? How strange that he thought of telling Patrick to sit in the truck while he picked up the package- are we sure he was helping alibi building for Patrick, or *cough* himself, as to why his DNA MIGHT possibly be found around Kelsey's doorway or her neighbor's?

 

[Seattle1]

Wouldn't asset with a lien automatically revert to the lien holder? IOW, any probate proceedings would just be a formality?

^^sbm

Mortgaged assets do not "automatically" revert to the lienholder or there would be an insane number of decedents losing their homes.

What Happens to Your Mortgage When You Die?

Passing the Home to Relatives
Your estate is responsible for paying off debts, but real estate is unique. Under federal law, lenders must allow family members to take over a mortgage when they inherit residential property. This prevents lenders from demanding payment under a due-on-sale clause, which would be triggered when ownership transfers to your heirs. Heirs do not need to prove they have the “ability to repay” the loan before taking over the mortgage.

 

[ajaylee]

I forgot yesterday in my other comment to say-


Exactly! He quite clearly was not there to visit Kelsey, to whom he couldn't stand and let the world know how he felt about her in a negative fashion, while putting dumdum on a pedestal.

So just what was he doing there, and is it possible that he scared the other lady, as she might have thought he was watching her condo, too, giving her the thought that he was stalking her? Obviously the poor woman was scared enough to put a camera up, and he just happened to know where all the cameras were in the surrounding neighborhood? Doesn't sound like to me he was there just once or twice to say, pick up the baby with Patrick or something. This guy was scouting out the neighborhood, if you ask me, for some reason. Who the heck notices cameras on surrounding neighbors' properties unless you are looking for them? How strange that he thought of telling Patrick to sit in the truck while he picked up the package- are we sure he was helping alibi building for Patrick, or *cough* himself, as to why his DNA MIGHT possibly be found around Kelsey's doorway or her neighbor's?

For all we know, RS left the unidentified male DNA in the bathroom. He'd apparently been to the condo before, he's said so. Was he lurking and spying on KB for PF? Or did he stop in with PF and use the bathroom on one occasion? Perfectly natural, whether or not KB was home, if he and PF were stopping by.

 

[Artis]

^^sbm

Mortgaged assets do not "automatically" revert to the lienholder or there would be an insane number of decedents losing their homes.

What Happens to Your Mortgage When You Die?

Passing the Home to Relatives
Your estate is responsible for paying off debts, but real estate is unique. Under federal law, lenders must allow family members to take over a mortgage when they inherit residential property. This prevents lenders from demanding payment under a due-on-sale clause, which would be triggered when ownership transfers to your heirs. Heirs do not need to prove they have the “ability to repay” the loan before taking over the mortgage.

Great point which I hadn't thought about. When there is no lien and the (fully paid for) property is in a trust, then would my previous comment apply?

 

[Kittybunny]

I've been thinking so much of all of Kelsey's family and friends over the last few days. Thanksgiving will never be the same to them, and always carry bitter memories. I cannot imagine.

I could be glad PF is not enjoying Thanksgiving, but even fake-pressed turkey is far too good for what PF truly deserves. Not to mention, I don't think he's capable of feeling even a fraction of the pain that he's inflicted on others.

 

[oviedo]

Wouldn't asset with a lien automatically revert to the lien holder? IOW, any probate proceedings would just be a formality?

I've heard Suzi Orman say that we should all have our assets in living, revocable trusts. I don't know if that also requires establishing an LLC or if it's the same thing the Berreths established.

Q. Any assets that PF may end up with from his father's estate - would the Berreths be able to add those to their civil suit and secure them for Baby K?

In my state a revocable living trust is separate from an LLC - many clients put assets in an LLC for protection against lawsuits IMO- and some mortgage companies will not allow a house to be placed in a trust until it is paid off as you actually record a deed granting the Trust ownership - it avoids probate in my state. There is no other way after death to move assets titled in your name because you are dead. IMO
If PF inherits his fathers estate then when probate is concluded and assets are distributed if he is an heir and does not disclaim his share - his share goes to him and then that asset is like any other in a civil suit IMO
I just wonder how mean he will be - he can disclaim just so the baby never gets anything
JMO