NC NC - Faith Hedgepeth, 19, UNC student, Chapel Hill, 7 Sep 2012 #2

[Ibiz]

I am still learning about this case, but I guess my first reaction to this is I’m not sure “being with a female” can be classified as an airtight alibi. But maybe there is more to support his alibi that we’re just not aware of (video surveillance etc.)

I guess I should have been more specific. Whomever committed this crime would have had a very short window, but yet he/she took the time to clean themself up; maybe even a shower. Also sat down and wrote a very bizarre note, and didn't make any noise, or leave a trace of evidence going down the stairs or into the parking lot. TY just dosen't really fit the bill.

 

[allboys]

I just had a random theory pop into my head. Please feel free to refute it, as many here are more knowledgeable about the case.

Faith was said to leave the library that night to meet a man, correct?

What if she and that man went back to her (KR’s) apartment, and had sex, and drank some rum or at least at some point the man handled the bottle. During this meeting Faith mentions to this man that KR doesn’t like him and thinks he’s “stupid.” Maybe she tells him not to let anyone know they went back to her apartment.

As Faith is in the bathroom or other room, this man writes a quick note for KR to find when she gets home. “I’m not stupid. . Jealous.” (Faith never sees the note).

Faith goes back to the library to meet KR (Unsure if she did or did not tell her where she’d been and with whom)

When KR and Faith come home from the night club, KR finds the note somewhere in the apartment, but not close enough to where Faith was killed or there would be blood on the (note)bag.

I won’t speculate on how this turned into an argument. But possibly KR was pissed that Faith had sex in *her* bed. Faith goes over to the bed to take the sheets off or something...and KR increasingly agitated and drunk, comes into the room and bashes Faith over the head with the bottle.

KR moves the note to the bed where Faith lays bludgeoned.

All texts sent from Faith’s phone were to either cast suspicion on who the texts were sent to, or to lure them over to find the body.

Any DNA of KR’s on the rum bottle, note on bag, pen or anything else could be explained away by the fact she lived there.

Problems with this theory:
- even though it hasn’t been released who Faith went to meet during break from library visit, it is assumed LE does know who that person is. So, they would be able to get that man’s dna to see if it matches semen sample and dna on note and pen.
- some have said that KR would not have had the strength to have committed that kind of extreme physical attack.

I know some feel the dna is a red herring, and this seems like a way of explaining it.

I guess the only way this is a possibility is if Faith did have a sexual encounter at the apartment that day, but who that person is is still unknown to LE, and has never come forward. I guess this is a long shot too, because if that person was innocent of committing murder, he would want to clear his name immediately.

Feel free to trample all over this idea. I’m just thinking aloud.

 

[Ibiz]

It's hard to say.. Maybe it was just some stranger out jiggling door knobs in the early morning hours.

I will say though, the but-dial voicemail really seems to show that FH had somesort of confrontation with someone(s) somewhere, at some point, on that night.

 

[allboys]

It's hard to say.. Maybe it was just some stranger out jiggling door knobs in the early morning hours.

I will say though, the but-dial voicemail really seems to show that FH had somesort of confrontation with someone(s) somewhere, at some point, on that night.

I absolutely don’t buy the stranger jiggling the door knob theory because:
- the manor of her death seemed personal
- there are way too many “unusual” variables surrounding the crime (note, texts, timing of KR’s exit etc.)

I’ve certainly seen cases where there are strong POIs, but perp ends up being random. But in this case, whether KR committed the crime or not, everything points to she at least has a lot more information than we’ve ever heard about.

Regarding the voicemail, I’d love to hear more specifics on whether the time stamp truly could have been wrong. If not, then my feeling is it’s completely unrelated.

My opinion only.

And even though I’m disagreeing with you, I enjoy hearing others opinions...I hope I don’t come across as argumentative.

 

[Webthrush]

It's hard to say.. Maybe it was just some stranger out jiggling door knobs in the early morning hours.

I will say though, the but-dial voicemail really seems to show that FH had somesort of confrontation with someone(s) somewhere, at some point, on that night.

1) I don’t believe it was a random doorknob jiggler, BUT I do believe that’s a more probable scenario than many of the others offered — indeed so many of the crimes I’ve followed that go unsolved for 6 months or more end up with a perp who was completely off the radar of any named persons-of-interest.

2) Despite what others say, I don’t generally think the butt-dial is interpretable, but if it is an altercation then I presume police are correct about the timestamp (I mean they had Faith’s phone, and the recipient's phone, with several calls made that night — what are the chances that all the other calls have correct timestamps, and that single one is way off?)

IF it was an altercation, and took place at the Thrill (maybe that’s even why the women left somewhat abruptly) than KR would know who they encountered there and surely have told the police (if she didn’t know their names police would’ve interviewed other personnel/clubbers at the Thrill who could maybe ID them, but we've never heard anything of KR fingering anyone from the Club).

There are so many questions CHPD could pretty simply have answered or at least clarified by simply holding a press conference on this case, but they've never been willing to do it, and so the case just festers. A shame.

 

[Ibiz]

1) I don’t believe it was a random doorknob jiggler, BUT I do believe that’s a more probable scenario than many of the others offered — indeed so many of the crimes I’ve followed that go unsolved for 6 months or more end up with a perp who was completely off the radar of any named persons-of-interest.

2) Despite what others say, I don’t generally think the butt-dial is interpretable, but if it is an altercation then I presume police are correct about the timestamp (I mean they had Faith’s phone, and the recipient's phone, with several calls made that night — what are the chances that all the other calls have correct timestamps, and that single one is way off?)

IF it was an altercation, and took place at the Thrill (maybe that’s even why the women left somewhat abruptly) than KR would know who they encountered there and surely have told the police (if she didn’t know their names police would’ve interviewed other personnel/clubbers at the Thrill who could maybe ID them, but we've never heard anything of KR fingering anyone from the Club).

There are so many questions CHPD could pretty simply have answered or at least clarified by simply holding a press conference on this case, but they've never been willing to do it, and so the case just festers. A shame.

If the dna wasn't planted somehow, then it could have been some stranger lurking in the darkness. He might of seen KR leave the appartment, saw she didn't lock the door, goes inside, sees Faith, attacks her. Then went in to the bathroom and washes himself up, writes the note, and possibly he waits around a while hoping KR comes back so he could attack her as well. LE did say the DNA was found in other areas of the appartment, didnt they?

It seems that LE has checked the DNA with everyone known to her.

No more press conferences would suggest they are possibly waiting for the killer to slip up somewhere.

 

[raiders444]

There have been thousands of posts on this murder and we still don't have any consensus on who did it and are basically all out there just blindly throwing darts. Until LE starts releasing more info on this case I don't see how any of this will change? Sorry, feeling defeated

 

[Ibiz]

There have been thousands of posts on this murder and we still don't have any consensus on who did it and are basically all out there just blindly throwing darts. Until LE starts releasing more info on this case I don't see how any of this will change? Sorry, feeling defeated

I agree. It seems that we have covered and analyzed every aspect of this case, and twisted it in to every direction humanly possible, and now we are right back at square one with no defiant answer as to what happend to FH.

At this point, I will stick with saying: if the DNA wasn't planted at the crime scene somehow, then the murderer must have been a stranger that was unknown to Faith. It may sound like a stretch, but it's the only theory that seems to make sense, unless it was some sort of hired hit; which would be a long shot.

 

[allboys]

At this point, I will stick with saying: if the DNA wasn't planted at the crime scene somehow, then the murderer must have been a stranger that was unknown to Faith. It may sound like a stretch, but it's the only theory that seems to make sense, unless it was some sort of hired hit; which would be a long shot.

Unless it’s someone known to Faith who hasn’t submitted DNA. But we don’t have 100% confirmation of anyone who refused, correct? And I suppose if that person was under enough suspicion by LE, they would have tried to obtain a DNA sample by other means (discarded trash etc.)?

As I stated in an earlier post, I’m still not convinced the person whose DNA they have has to be Faith’s killer. I wish I knew more about why LE feels certain. For example, if allegedly that rum bottle wasn’t there when Karena left at 4:30, and she had never seen it before. Or, if only one person’s dna (aside from Faith) was on the bottle. Then that would be more convincing. But there are so many details we aren’t privy to.

 

[Webthrush]

Unless it’s someone known to Faith who hasn’t submitted DNA. But we don’t have 100% confirmation of anyone who refused, correct? And I suppose if that person was under enough suspicion by LE, they would have tried to obtain a DNA sample by other means (discarded trash etc.)?

As I stated in an earlier post, I’m still not convinced the person whose DNA they have has to be Faith’s killer. I wish I knew more about why LE feels certain. For example, if allegedly that rum bottle wasn’t there when Karena left at 4:30, and she had never seen it before. Or, if only one person’s dna (aside from Faith) was on the bottle. Then that would be more convincing. But there are so many details we aren’t privy to.

I believe police stated quite awhile ago that they did now have DNA from everyone they had requested... no match... not sure even how many of those folks were of Hispanic or Native American ancestry (to meet the Parabon conclusion).
Male DNA from the semen, pen, and rum bottle all match (perhaps from bag as well?) and are assumed to therefore to be from killer. One thing I'm not clear on is how often it is RE-submitted to national databases?

 

[Ibiz]

Unless it’s someone known to Faith who hasn’t submitted DNA. But we don’t have 100% confirmation of anyone who refused, correct? And I suppose if that person was under enough suspicion by LE, they would have tried to obtain a DNA sample by other means (discarded trash etc.)?

As I stated in an earlier post, I’m still not convinced the person whose DNA they have has to be Faith’s killer. I wish I knew more about why LE feels certain. For example, if allegedly that rum bottle wasn’t there when Karena left at 4:30, and she had never seen it before. Or, if only one person’s dna (aside from Faith) was on the bottle. Then that would be more convincing. But there are so many details we aren’t privy to.

It's been my understanding that LE was flagging people down in the neighborhood and asking for DNA samples. The Rum bottle came from the kitchen counter. I think the problem with the DNA is that there was probably a large assortment of different types in the bedroom and on the bed itself. Trying to sort it all out, and decide who's who, would be a big undertaking. Sometimes in murder cases there is just not enough dna, but in this case, it seems that there was just to much dna.

If you would like a really good overview of this case, then I would suggest you watch Breaking Homicide; the episode: "Who Killed Faith".

 

[TristanP]

I believe police stated quite awhile ago that they did now have DNA from everyone they had requested... no match... not sure even how many of those folks were of Hispanic or Native American ancestry (to meet the Parabon conclusion).
Male DNA from the semen, pen, and rum bottle all match (perhaps from bag as well?) and are assumed to therefore to be from killer. One thing I'm not clear on is how often it is RE-submitted to national databases?

I’ve wondered if they should test at least some of the DNA again to make sure there wasn’t an error the first time.

When Jessica Ridgeway was killed in CO, they didn’t identify her killer through his DNA because it wasn’t processed right the first time. I think they had caught the error and were in the process of re-testing it so eventually it would have led to him but he confessed first and turned himself in. But it shows that testing errors happen, so maybe that’s a possibility here.

 

[MilanaCapricorn]

Many things about this case keep me up at night, and two of them are called logic and coincidence. I dont believe in coincidences so let's begin there. I dont believe that the voicemail was a coincidence and unless LE is completely inept they have to know exactly when that phone call was made, they have her phone records and would be able to tell at exactly what time she made that call to that number, they know exactly who she was allegedly texting and calling at 3:30-4am, a simple look through her phone records will say exactly when it was placed, and yet they are watching everyone speculate in silence. Logically it seems they are not sharing the information purposely and relaying that the time stamp was from a voicemail recovery off of Faith's friends phone...but that's just one thing. The bacardi bottle and the note logically tell me a few things. Firstly that if someone entered that apartment with the intention of committing the crime they came I'll prepared. If that even is the weapon or the only weapon. If you were a random killer and let's say you happened upon a crime of opportunity where you didnt bring a weapon, if you took something from the house. Especially from the kitchen, you might think a knife would be a better choice.. but that's just my opinion. Its impossible to get a better idea of the crime scene without information from the police files, but I'd like to know where else there was blood in or around the apartment, what DNA was there that shouldn't have and whose isn't that should. Did someone take a shower. Prints on the door handle? Bottle and note? And please for the love of logic can someone please explain how a killer has enough time in the early hours of the morning have enough time to beat someone to death at exactly the time KS left, feel comfortable enough to have time to write a ridiculous note and manage to get away with out a trace? Random act of violence by a stranger, though a possibility is so extraordinarily seemingly impossible it makes me cring . They would have to be the luckiest person on earth for all of those elements to be at play. IMO and I hope very badly, that LE is keeping things to the chest to lure out the killer and to put a nail in the coffin when they make the arrest. I think they're waiting on a DNA match to put the whole story together for whoever is culpable, atleast that's what I hope...

 

[MilanaCapricorn]

I just had a random theory pop into my head. Please feel free to refute it, as many here are more knowledgeable about the case.

Faith was said to leave the library that night to meet a man, correct?

What if she and that man went back to her (KR’s) apartment, and had sex, and drank some rum or at least at some point the man handled the bottle. During this meeting Faith mentions to this man that KR doesn’t like him and thinks he’s “stupid.” Maybe she tells him not to let anyone know they went back to her apartment.

As Faith is in the bathroom or other room, this man writes a quick note for KR to find when she gets home. “I’m not stupid. *****. Jealous.” (Faith never sees the note).

Faith goes back to the library to meet KR (Unsure if she did or did not tell her where she’d been and with whom)

When KR and Faith come home from the night club, KR finds the note somewhere in the apartment, but not close enough to where Faith was killed or there would be blood on the (note)bag.

I won’t speculate on how this turned into an argument. But possibly KR was pissed that Faith had sex in *her* bed. Faith goes over to the bed to take the sheets off or something...and KR increasingly agitated and drunk, comes into the room and bashes Faith over the head with the bottle.

KR moves the note to the bed where Faith lays bludgeoned.

All texts sent from Faith’s phone were to either cast suspicion on who the texts were sent to, or to lure them over to find the body.

Any DNA of KR’s on the rum bottle, note on bag, pen or anything else could be explained away by the fact she lived there.

Problems with this theory:
- even though it hasn’t been released who Faith went to meet during break from library visit, it is assumed LE does know who that person is. So, they would be able to get that man’s dna to see if it matches semen sample and dna on note and pen.
- some have said that KR would not have had the strength to have committed that kind of extreme physical attack.

I know some feel the dna is a red herring, and this seems like a way of explaining it.

I guess the only way this is a possibility is if Faith did have a sexual encounter at the apartment that day, but who that person is is still unknown to LE, and has never come forward. I guess this is a long shot too, because if that person was innocent of committing murder, he would want to clear his name immediately.

Feel free to trample all over this idea. I’m just thinking aloud.

Very interesting... I think the most interesting thing about the semen. Regardless of when it was left that she had her period. Correct me if I'm wrong but when the body was found wasnt a used tampon found on the floor next to the body?

 

[Lamima]

I just wish they'd run the familial DNA testing already.

 

[MilanaCapricorn]

Does anyone have any theories on the shirt pulled over her head? Faith is often described as being found by LE nude from the waist down, with a shirt pulled over her head. It makes me question KR's 911 call when describing the condition of faith, but then again that's the least of my suspicions concerning KR. I feel its possible that this fact is very important. KR didn't want to touch her as she described, and they have never said that the DNA was a match to this part of her clothing. If a struggle ensued which the D.A. who came to the scene describes as a substantial struggle (on the Pursuit Podcast), when someone pulled the shirt over her head, I am assuming after she had passed away, the motive behind this act could reveal a lot about the perp, could be shame, guilt, not wanting to look at what they had just done, which to me and IMO is not something a perp unknown to the victim would have done. ( that and about 900 other things) That shirt could have tons of evidence on it, and probably does. The bathroom as well the D.A. said the door had been damaged and mainly that the attack took place in and around the bedroom and bathroom area. Any thoughts? these two mentions plus the fact that LE didn't show anything besides the note and the Bacardi bottle when other items were taken into evidence, described as a remote, a flat iron, and several other things including a different wine bottle. it is hard to work without scientific evidence from the entire scene, we are getting bits and pieces, and they are small compared to what we haven't gotten. also toxicology should show when she last ate, when she last had a drink...and boy wouldn't I love to know if there were reminents of the Red Peach Bacardi or The Reisling wine.... Sorry that was a lot, but I am coming up and working with with a theory and just wanted to share some thoughts and receive some!

 

[allboys]

Your post made me wonder about something. Why doesn’t KR mention to the 911 operator that Faith’s shirt is over her head? It just seems that would be something she would “notice” and therefore mention, as she recounts the scene to 911 operator.

If KR did mention it, please correct me. I haven’t listened to the 911 call in a while.

 

[borndem]

I just had a random theory pop into my head. Please feel free to refute it, as many here are more knowledgeable about the case.

>>>>> RSBM <<<<<​

Your scenario is as good as any I've seen.
I certainly have not ruled out KR. JMHO.

 

[Webthrush]

Does anyone have any theories on the shirt pulled over her head? Faith is often described as being found by LE nude from the waist down, with a shirt pulled over her head. It makes me question KR's 911 call when describing the condition of faith, but then again that's the least of my suspicions concerning KR. I feel its possible that this fact is very important. KR didn't want to touch her as she described, and they have never said that the DNA was a match to this part of her clothing. If a struggle ensued which the D.A. who came to the scene describes as a substantial struggle (on the Pursuit Podcast), when someone pulled the shirt over her head, I am assuming after she had passed away, the motive behind this act could reveal a lot about the perp, could be shame, guilt, not wanting to look at what they had just done, which to me and IMO is not something a perp unknown to the victim would have done. ( that and about 900 other things) That shirt could have tons of evidence on it, and probably does. The bathroom as well the D.A. said the door had been damaged and mainly that the attack took place in and around the bedroom and bathroom area. Any thoughts? these two mentions plus the fact that LE didn't show anything besides the note and the Bacardi bottle when other items were taken into evidence, described as a remote, a flat iron, and several other things including a different wine bottle. it is hard to work without scientific evidence from the entire scene, we are getting bits and pieces, and they are small compared to what we haven't gotten. also toxicology should show when she last ate, when she last had a drink...and boy wouldn't I love to know if there were reminents of the Red Peach Bacardi or The Reisling wine.... Sorry that was a lot, but I am coming up and working with with a theory and just wanted to share some thoughts and receive some!

Some misc. points in response:

1) First, the autopsy report does report a trace amount of alcohol in Faith’s system though no indication of whether that came from the apt. or from sipping some earlier at the Thrill.

2) One odd sidenote to all this is that the initial on-scene write-up for the crime included this odd (to me) sentence: “The apartment had lots of clutter scattered around, but no obvious signs of a struggle.” Rather bizarre, given both Faith’s condition and the fact that everything else I’ve ever read about the crime certainly implies, as one would expect, that there was a struggle. AND YET neighbors heard very little, implying that indeed there was no prolonged violent struggle.

3) I’ve always only been able to explain the above in my own mind by imagining that 2 perps went to the apt. for a ‘partytime’ & sex (perhaps even intending to find both women there) — I think it’s clear from the action and choice of weapon there was never any plan for murder. When Faith resisted I believe one perp manhandled her/ controlled her, stuffing something down her throat or clasping her mouth to keep her silent while the other attempted rape. Either Faith kicked, gouged, or scratched him violently, or alternatively bit his organ as he was forcing oral sex, and that sparked the rage/impulse to grab the nearest item (rum bottle) and hit her in the head. (There’s plenty of other things I can’t explain, but that’s just how I picture the crime going down.)

4) Finally, a lot of what you’re asking about, again the police no doubt already have answers to, and it is very aggravating how little has been shared with the public.

 

[MilanaCapricorn]

Your post made me wonder about something. Why doesn’t KR mention to the 911 operator that Faith’s shirt is over her head? It just seems that would be something she would “notice” and therefore mention, as she recounts the scene to 911 operator.

If KR did mention it, please correct me. I haven’t listened to the 911 call in a while.

she never mentions it, I have listened to it in it's entierty. she basically mentions everything but the body...