IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #2

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Aydrianna523 said:
I suppose it's true. I suppose this story touches me because I help with my grandkids. I worry about accidents. You know the typical...stop running in the house, stop jumping on the bed, hold my hand crossing the parking lot, don't put that in your mouth, sit on the chair right or you'll get hurt. Safety is a big deal when raising kids. Thankfully,
no cruises for me. I'd be a nervous wreck and everyone would be annoyed.
I'd also be interested, though, if he had been reckless in the past...
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I'm a nervous wreck when I watch my grand baby. ;)

I cannot imagine how horrible I'd feel if something happened to her in my care. So I do feel some compassion for him as a grandfather.

But that's what makes me even more upset at him for being so careless and reckless with his precious baby.

This tragic death was totally unnecessary. :(
 
BetteDavisEyes said:
The ship was docked in San Juan for embarkation. All that Chloe would have seen was the concrete dock below. Lots of activity during embarkation: forklifts hauling guests' luggage to conveyor, food and supplies being loaded onto vessel, passengers walking up the gangway to board the ship, etc. There may or may not have been a water view on the oppositie side of the ship depending on where they were docked at the pier. I haven't cruised out of San Juan for a while and don't recall the cruise port. Chloe didn't need to be lifted up to see what was going on below; she could have seen everything from the lower windows.
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Right. A one and a half year old is happy seeing any kind of movement down below. There is no need to put her in a vulnerable dangerous position just to see a 'larger' view of the same stuff. She doesn't care or understand.
 
Aydrianna523 said:
I see it.
But if I had an apt, let's say 11 floors up, I definitely wouldn't be leaving windows open. You can be sure of that! Is every floor like that? With some open and some closed windows?
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Typically, yes. Cruise ships have windows that open and people can open them. In this case, it's a public space and not a private space, so parents have to be aware that tons of people without kids may have opened windows (and I believe the cruise ship has in its TOS that parents are responsible for their children while on the cruise - lots of things that can go wrong if kids are unsupervised or negligently supervised).

The main floors that have lounges seem to all have those windows.

When I first heard this story, I thought about all the various behaviors that people exhibit on their first trips to National Parks (the 4 year old that ran off the edge of Grand Canyon about 10 minutes after arrival came to mind). The first day of any vacation that involves water, outdoors, heights, etc. is grueling for parents - although a lot of people do not become aware of the hazards until they are personally warned by someone official.
 
10ofRods said:
Typically, yes. Cruise ships have windows that open and people can open them. In this case, it's a public space and not a private space, so parents have to be aware that tons of people without kids may have opened windows (and I believe the cruise ship has in its TOS that parents are responsible for their children while on the cruise - lots of things that can go wrong if kids are unsupervised or negligently supervised).

The main floors that have lounges seem to all have those windows.

When I first heard this story, I thought about all the various behaviors that people exhibit on their first trips to National Parks (the 4 year old that ran off the edge of Grand Canyon about 10 minutes after arrival came to mind). The first day of any vacation that involves water, outdoors, heights, etc. is grueling for parents - although a lot of people do not become aware of the hazards until they are personally warned by someone official.
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I hear you!
 
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Aydrianna523 said:
I suppose it's true. I suppose this story touches me because I help with my grandkids. I worry about accidents. You know the typical...stop running in the house, stop jumping on the bed, hold my hand crossing the parking lot, don't put that in your mouth, sit on the chair right or you'll get hurt. Safety is a big deal when raising kids. Thankfully,
no cruises for me. I'd be a nervous wreck and everyone would be annoyed.
I'd also be interested, though, if he had been reckless in the past...
Click to expand...

He was ticketed more than once for not wearing a seatbelt. And you can see in the pictures posted here that he prefers to have Chloe's head up above or near his, while using unorthodox methods of holding onto her. It's not anything we'd notice much under ordinary household circumstances (although having two hands on a toddler while holding them 5 feet above a floor is considered common sense in our family - and not everyone has actually raised a toddler). Kids manage to fall off chairs and things all on their own. Or, the toddler is a bit lower (most people have hips where they can balance a toddler, as I'm sure you know - but the toddler should be taught to hold on, as well). It's great when they can finally walk while holding hands. Chloe was old enough to look through the lower window on her own, but Grandpa wanted her to look at things from the same height/angle as himself.
 
gitana1 said:
Ok. Here’s what the media reports is on the video:

“The video, which did not include audio, shows Chloe wearing a white hat, her swimsuit and swim shoes, running across the pool area with her granddad a few feet behind, ABC reported.

They walk over to a wall of windows, where Anello appears to look over the railing, through an open window. He picks Chloe up and stands her up on the railing — and they appear to lean over to peer out over the port.

He then sits Chloe on the railing and they lean over again before she disappears from the frame when she falls 115 feet to her death. Moments later, Anello drops to the floor.

Family attorney Michael Winkleman said Anello repeatedly screamed that he thought the window was closed.”
https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost...dfather-thought-window-was-closed-lawyer/amp/

If the rail was as close to the window as @BetteDavisEyes ? posted then he indeed leaned out through the open window. If he still thought it was closed he was wasted.

Reckless homicide would seem appropriate if he actually put his head out where the window would be.

And the video appears to show him leaning forward, then putting her on the rail standing up and leaning forward, then backing up and sitting her on the rail, then leaning forward again. So not fast.
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Oh. The link is eye opening.
 
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10ofRods said:
He was ticketed more than once for not wearing a seatbelt. And you can see in the pictures posted here that he prefers to have Chloe's head up above or near his, while using unorthodox methods of holding onto her. It's not anything we'd notice much under ordinary household circumstances (although having two hands on a toddler while holding them 5 feet above a floor is considered common sense in our family - and not everyone has actually raised a toddler). Kids manage to fall off chairs and things all on their own. Or, the toddler is a bit lower (most people have hips where they can balance a toddler, as I'm sure you know - but the toddler should be taught to hold on, as well). It's great when they can finally walk while holding hands. Chloe was old enough to look through the lower window on her own, but Grandpa wanted her to look at things from the same height/angle as himself.
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Good post.
 
10ofRods said:
He was ticketed more than once for not wearing a seatbelt. And you can see in the pictures posted here that he prefers to have Chloe's head up above or near his, while using unorthodox methods of holding onto her. It's not anything we'd notice much under ordinary household circumstances (although having two hands on a toddler while holding them 5 feet above a floor is considered common sense in our family - and not everyone has actually raised a toddler). Kids manage to fall off chairs and things all on their own. Or, the toddler is a bit lower (most people have hips where they can balance a toddler, as I'm sure you know - but the toddler should be taught to hold on, as well). It's great when they can finally walk while holding hands. Chloe was old enough to look through the lower window on her own, but Grandpa wanted her to look at things from the same height/angle as himself.
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Normally, I pay no attention to silly tickets.

But in this case, considering I am questioning if he has issues with safety rules and with carelessness, I have to take those tickets into account.

Who gets several tickets for not wearing seatbelts? Wouldn't you start wearing them at some point? It just seems stubborn and obstinate to continue the same behavior, enough to get a few more tickets. That would also affect his insurance premiums.

I have to wonder if it shows a personality defect, that he would wilfully get several tickets for the same silly infraction, which is unsafe and costs him a lot in penalties and insurance. What is the point of that behaviour?

I know, I know, it is just misdemeanour tickets and no big deal. But to me, it shows a pattern on his part, of ignoring safety and of ignoring laws and accountability. JMO
 
oviedo said:
Perhaps cruisers just need to read and follow the rules
Royal Caribbean's guest conduct policy, last revised Nov 2018 prior to the incident. The policy that all guests receive a copy of clearly states on the top of Page 2:

"Unsafe Behavior: Sitting, standing, lying or climbing on, over or across any exterior or interior railings or other protective barriers, or tampering with ship’s equipment, facilities or systems designed for guest safety is not permitted. Guests may not enter or access any area that is restricted and for the use of crew members. Any other unsafe behavior, including failure to follow security instructions, is not permitted
——
Of course this is a man who ignores the simple rule of buckling your seat belt / his court violations were posted on thread 1 and I believe in the media thread
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So, this right here should pretty much take care of the criminal and civil cases. *BOOM*
 
oviedo said:
It’s a video posted by a cruiser - they took it showing the layout of deck 11 - which is similar to all of the ships I’ve been on - the still photo is the view outside the window - they were docked at the pier in PR and she landed on an awning first before hitting the pier
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So that’s the actual window? And the baby fell onto the pier? Not from an area onto the floor inside the ship?
 
sl222 said:
I notice several people have started participating who don't know the basic info. It's well worth your time to read what everyone here has spent hours of time carefully putting in here to piece this together. If you are interested in this case you'll find it interesting reading. We have covered everything, seriously. If you even read half of it you'll become really informed on what is known so far. :) :) :) (Please, I'm begging you lol.)
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No need to beg. Not everyone has the time to review each thread in an in depth manner.

I’m going to leave you all to it!!
 
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