Mark Sievers Trial General Discussion Thread

Fore CWW, sure. But why would JRR do this with zero relationship between him and MS and a promise to pay months into the future? That just doesn’t add up for me. I absolutely believe the MS/CWW connection. That’s easy to buy into. But a friend of a friend with zero connection and zero reward? Hmmm...
JRR was an idiot so to speak and a fall guy for both CWW and Mark. Sad truth MOO
 
Fore CWW, sure. But why would JRR do this with zero relationship between him and MS and a promise to pay months into the future? That just doesn’t add up for me. I absolutely believe the MS/CWW connection. That’s easy to buy into. But a friend of a friend with zero connection and zero reward? Hmmm...

JRR and CWW have a history and it's been described as mentor/mentee relationship in addition to being friends. They met while sharing a cell in jail years ago. CWW took a young, adrift JRR under his wing while in jail and the friendship continued once they were both out. There's a lot in JRR's growing up that's pretty sad and makes it more understandable. Nothing to excuse murder or any other brutality he's committed, but maybe for not hooking up with CWW, he could have gone a different direction.

And, according to TaySho, JRR took an instant dislike to MS when they encountered each other in the parking lot of CWW's wedding. MS was described something like rude, entitled and self-important.
 
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A character witness might be used during the penalty phase of the trial. His character or lack thereof is not relevant to the question of guilt or innocence. imo
Thanks, I forgot about people being able to speak at sentencing if it comes to that. Not as such, but getting people on the stand to testify to what a swell guy he is and that he'd never do anything like this... turns my stomach, but it happens. Even getting a couple of people who have some actual input for the defense who will also vouch for his swellness would have been something to show that they exist lol. I'm guessing though that the only people who would have testified to that would have been women he's manipulated and bedded. By this time, after all the ugly information out there including his sex notes, there might not be any willing to stand up for him.
 
JRR and CWW have a history and it's been described as mentor/mentee relationship in addition to being friends. They met while sharing a cell in jail years ago. CWW took a young, adrift JRR under his wing while in jail and the friendship continued once they were both out. There's a lot in JRR's growing up that's pretty sad and makes it more understandable. Nothing to excuse murder or any other brutality he's committed, but maybe for not hooking up with CWW, he could have gone a different direction.

And, according to TaySho, JRR took an instant dislike to MS when the encountered each other in the parking lot of CWW's wedding. MS was described something like rude, entitled and self-important.

that’s interesting information. I keep going back to the point that if I were to go off ONLY what’s been presented, I wouldn’t be able to find him guilty... and that’s such a shame. In my heart, I feel it and I see it in his smug look, but I’d have to go with what was in front of me and vote not guilty. I wish the state had presented this much differently. I hope they don’t end up regretting their work.
 
Fore CWW, sure. But why would JRR do this with zero relationship between him and MS and a promise to pay months into the future? That just doesn’t add up for me. I absolutely believe the MS/CWW connection. That’s easy to buy into. But a friend of a friend with zero connection and zero reward? Hmmm...
JRR was an idiot so to speak and a fall guy for both CWW and Mark. Sad truth MOO
Still no answer about 17 hammer blows. How did MS know if CWW or JRR didn't? Hidden camera? Skype? Who would actually keep count, and who could keep going that many strikes WITHOUT being on some kind of drugs or personal rage???
although I hate to speak it, it wouldn’t surprise me to know he was watching via something. Hence the 17 blows comment. Maybe this is literally how Mark knew exactly how many blows she sustained. They had a security system but have we ever heard if it had a camera? Hubby and I have had a Guardzilla for years and my family has a Canary at another property but both are controlled and viewed via internet and frankly I have no idea how to access or control them.
ETA both security devices I spoke of are internal and cannot be cut via exterior wiring. Didn’t we see in discovery that the security system company was subpoenaed? Does anyone recall? Maybe CWW served additional internet communications needs? Sorry but it’s been so long I cannot recall! TIA!
 
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Exactly. He had full access to the money. As trustee, he was responsible for distributions to the beneficiaries, and he himself was the primary beneficiary. And the terms of the trust were extremely broad.

The estate attorney was blowing smoke about it being overseen by the court. Theoretically, when the girls come of age, if the money was gone or misused, they could sue Mark for breach of fiduciary duty. It won't fly, though, because Mark is himself a beneficiary and the terms for distribution were very broad. Plus, even if they had a case and won, the money would still be gone.

BBM. Ms. Ross is very smart and asked specifically about this. She asked if individual (marital?) trusts are overseen by the court. Ms. Lyons hemmed and hawed and tried to talk around that. I thought Ms. Ross owned her in the end.

FWIW for those who don't have CourtTV, and take what they say with a grain of salt, but they think the prosecution has this in the bag.
 
that’s interesting information. I keep going back to the point that if I were to go off ONLY what’s been presented, I wouldn’t be able to find him guilty... and that’s such a shame. In my heart, I feel it and I see it in his smug look, but I’d have to go with what was in front of me and vote not guilty. I wish the state had presented this much differently. I hope they don’t end up regretting their work.

Absofreakinlutely I agree and it's frustrating that so much information isn't presented during trial or wasn't in this case.
I can only imagine how angry I'd feel after a trial that I had voted to acquit a defendant and then found out later so much bad, bad stuff that would have proved it, but wasn't allowed in for whatever reason. Intellectually, I'd be confident that I voted the right way (meaning following the law), but emotionally, it would be very difficult.
 
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Absofreakinlutely I agree and it's frustrating that so much information isn't presented during trial or wasn't in this case.
I can only imagine how angry I'd feel after a trial that I had voted to acquit a defendant and then found out later so much bad, bad stuff that would have proved it, but wasn't allowed in for whatever reason. Intellectually, I'd be confident that I voted the right way, but emotionally, it would be very difficult.

I couldn’t agree more! Exactly this ^
 
Thank you for clarifying. I hope there some members of the jury who understand it as well as you do. This is not my cup of tea....at all....but I think I still understood correctly (?) that the money in this trust was not going to be inaccessible to him. Is this correct?

Correct. With her dead, he would have broad access to income and distribution of the assets with little to no oversight. He would have tax reporting that he would have to do as part of the rules requiring reporting.
 
JRR was an idiot so to speak and a fall guy for both CWW and Mark. Sad truth MOO

although I hate to speak it, it wouldn’t surprise me to know he was watching via something. Hence the 17 blows comment. Maybe this is literally how Mark knew exactly how many blows she sustained. They had a security system but have we ever heard if it had a camera? Hubby and I have had a Guardzilla for years and my family has a Canary at another property but both are controlled and viewed via internet and frankly I have no idea how to access or control them.
ETA both security devices I spoke of are internal and cannot be cut via exterior wiring. Didn’t we see in discovery that the security system company was subpoenaed? Does anyone recall? Maybe CWW served additional internet communications needs? Sorry but it’s been so long I cannot recall! TIA!

OMG, you make perfect sense mom2chloe!!! WHAT AN EXCELLENT THOUGHT - We even know that MS was seen moving one of the outside security lightS (camera?) with a broom.
I feel like slapping my forehead - we have security cameras here and I couldn't imagine being without them. I monitor the porch every time the doorbell rings or a sensor is tripped. With all the bugaboo he had about the security lights and alarm needing to be armed (or conveniently left disarmed by his mom at his instruction on the night he had his wife murdered)...

Now, I can't stop thinking about this and can't imagine the two computer geniuses (geniui? lol) not having spycams in all kinds of places.

edited to correct spelling of mom2chloe . :) I hate when I misspell someone's name
 
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JRR was an idiot so to speak and a fall guy for both CWW and Mark. Sad truth MOO

although I hate to speak it, it wouldn’t surprise me to know he was watching via something. Hence the 17 blows comment. Maybe this is literally how Mark knew exactly how many blows she sustained. They had a security system but have we ever heard if it had a camera? Hubby and I have had a Guardzilla for years and my family has a Canary at another property but both are controlled and viewed via internet and frankly I have no idea how to access or control them.
ETA both security devices I spoke of are internal and cannot be cut via exterior wiring. Didn’t we see in discovery that the security system company was subpoenaed? Does anyone recall? Maybe CWW served additional internet communications needs? Sorry but it’s been so long I cannot recall! TIA!
I think an exterior system was installed post-event by CWW himself, but the fact that basic questions still linger and there are gaping holes in stories.
CWW made it sound like he and JRR had no discussions during the commute time. If JRR is that deranged, he had to have run his mouth on the way. I don't buy how there was no definitive attack plan up until the last moment. CWW might have been truthful, but I sense it's half-truth style. Something still smells fishy.
 
Correct. With her dead, he would have broad access to income and distribution of the assets with little to no oversight. He would have tax reporting that he would have to do as part of the rules requiring reporting.
And we know how he likes to maintain his tax obligations! And the life insurance policies were just a bonus MOO
 
OMG, you make perfect sense momtochloe!!! WHAT AN EXCELLENT THOUGHT - We even know that MS was seen moving one of the outside security lightS (camera?) with a broom.
I feel like slapping my forehead - we have security cameras here and I couldn't imagine being without them. I monitor the porch every time the doorbell rings or a sensor is tripped. With all the bugaboo he had about the security lights and alarm needing to be armed (or conveniently left disarmed by his mom at his instruction on the night he had his wife murdered)...

Now, I can't stop thinking about this and can't imagine the two computer geniuses (geniui? lol) not having spycams in all kinds of places.
Might explain Mark’s weird allowance/tolerance of the girls playing on the roof too? Maybe he was gauging exactly how cameras needed to be placed in order to view whatever he deemed necessary? I am certain the security company was interviewed but not necessarily regarding this angle so to speak...
Also because the devices I mention are interior plug ins anyone could have moved and/ or removed them at any given time and video or still images deleted as needed.
 
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Nevermind: I forgot that we have all kinds of fabulous files here for our access! Whoohoo off I go.

Having a brainfaht here. Was it brought up in any of the trials about the alarm system being disarmed and the fact that MS told his mom to "leave it off" that very night? It's in police interviews with Mark's mom Bonnie.

And were the remote commands turning on or off the security alarm brought up in court? I remember it being investigated and that would have been something to have the company testify if it had the proof.
 
Found the interview where Mark's mom said that he told her not to set it: 5360 and on
"BS: I should've set it after the afternoon. I didn't -- the morning when I came in, it worked, that, you know -- the alarm was done. And I set the alarm- -- I think I set it Monday when I left. It was early in the morning. I had to go to ushering at the church. And I think that's when he called and said, "You don't have to --" or text me about it -- "You don't have to worry about it because the motion detector and all that with the dogs." So I know that Sunday afternoon I did not set it. Dammit. Easy to blame Mark. Well, he said not to set because of the motion detector. " He said was concerned about the fee for false alarms when the dogs set it off.
 

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