OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #52

[Loomis124]

That is a really good point and I didn't think about the prosecution not wanting it released yet.

IMO, that opens the Jake/Dailey "true" custody files...still hush hush and for a good reason!

 

[Loomis124]

That is a really good point and I didn't think about the prosecution not wanting it released yet.

Dbl post

 

[Merrygirl]

The judge ordered the audio to be given to defense on 10/22/19. And I don't think this was the first mention of it not being turned over. Still on 12/2, there was still no audio provided to the defense. This is just my opinion, but I don't think the state is just "forgetting" to turn this over. I don't think they are going to turn it over until they are actually forced to. Obviously, there is something they feel would be useful to some/all defendants.

I believe FG said in the last pretrial of 12/3 that he understands there was a “mechanical malfunction” that still needs to be corrected but he wishes to receive it nonetheless. AC agreed to provide, just as she said previously but did not provide.

 

[Merrygirl]

DBM, double posting.

 

[Loomis124]

ETA:
Dropbox - Declaration.pdf - Simplify your life

Gerlach stated the difference in one of RN's prior hearings, when discussing the "tote." There is a huge difference in custody and guardianship. JMO

 

[Myland]

‘These are frequently referred to by these lawyers as “custody documents” but they are actually “Custody Upon My Early Demise” (Or something similar) documents. In other words they only take effect after death of the one who makes the bequeath. These are not the usual and customary docs for parental custody. It is believed by many of us sleuthers to be proof of motive for the murders. JMOO.

Jmo I still don’t understand the reason for George. He didn’t need it. Unless it was to try to use to make Jakes more believable. Jmo

 

[Loomis124]

Jmo I still don’t understand the reason for George. He didn’t need it. Unless it was to try to use to make Jakes more believable. Jmo

George would have definitely needed it if he had been killed the night of the murders. JMO

 

[Merrygirl]

Thank you. Now I can remove my link to this document (before you posted it here).

‘I’m sorry but I only responded to the post as I came to it. Obviously I was behind in conversation. I was away for a bit.

 

[Loomis124]

‘I’m sorry but I only responded to the post as I came to it. Obviously I was behind in conversation. I was away for a bit.

Oh no, no problem at all. You made it easier for the form to be seen. Thanks!

 

[Fight4justice]

In court at Fred's bond and arraignment hearing Canepa was very clear that Fred was present for the revenge and escape coversations.
What is not clear and has always peaked my interest is if Fred herself actually participated in those conversations because when Canepa says "they" discussed, it's not clear if the "they" includes Fred or not.

We at least know she was present for them and we can assume she heard the conversations but we don't know if she herself talked revenge or escape. Another thing that bothers me, did she even try to talk them out of it?

I am hoping if we have trials that all the "confidential reliable source" information will come to light, which I have always believed is from wiretaps.

I know the Wagner 4 are not smart, but I think they are at least smart enough not to invite people over to Fred's then talk revenge and escape in front of them. Opinion.

I always thought the same, if someone was present in the home when these discussions were taking place then they would know who the informant was therefore I always felt the discussion was captured via other sources.

 

[Myland]

George would have definitely needed it if he had been killed the night of the murders. JMO

Jmo that is true.

 

[Loomis124]

Jmo that is true.

The 4 Ws had no guarantee they wouldn't be killed that night, so they tried everything they could to keep control of SW and George's son, in case they were. They knew SW would inherit from the Rhodens upon their deaths, and then perhaps FW in inheritance. IMO, the 4W were listed every which way possible on those guardianship documents to ensure control. IMO, the reason for the tremendous overkill. OMG

 

[Caylee Advocate]

DBL POST.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

"A special prosecutor for the state, Angela Canepa, urged Deering to deny the request, citing conversations Wagner apparently had with what Canepa called a "confidential, reliable source."

"If one or more of them were arrested and one of them remained at-large, then that person should take revenge on anybody who went against them," Canepa said. "And they specifically also named special agent-in-charge (inaudible), Sheriff Reader and Mike DeWine and/or help the other individuals escape. ... I would say that specifically, George Wagner is probably the most vocal in making those threats."

Prosecutor: Pike County massacre suspect plotted revenge on anybody


Apple watches are so discreet to record with??? JMO

 

[Rutledge203]

Newcomb Discovery

I hope this link works to RN discovery.

The forged documents are entitled "declaration of appointment of guardian for my minor children in the case of my death or incapacity"

There is a document for HR, JW and GW4

Thank you for the refresher

 

[Cool Cats]

I always thought the same, if someone was present in the home when these discussions were taking place then they would know who the informant was therefore I always felt the discussion was captured via other sources.

Yah. When LE took out a sworn affidavit for a search warrant for Fred's place in May 2017, it makes sense they could have had probable cause to obtain a wiretap warrant. So while dozens of swat officers were distracting the family others were wiring up the place. Like the kitchen and living areas.

 

[sunshineray]

The prosecution still needs to prove that they all had a part in the forgery. It is not enough to say "they all had a part in it". If for instance you prove that 3 of them sighed a document but fail to offer proof to the jury regarding the 4th then the 4th would likely be found not guilty. Pls correct me if I'm incorrect.

And that's where RN comes in, she is the key to that. If she says she was not present at the drafting or signing of those documents AND the two brothers used those documents, they are guilty of being in on the forgeries.

You know if you sat with your grandma and completed these documents. Better still your grandma knows if you did...or didn't. She knows if HR was involved...or wasn't. AJMO

AW, GW4 and JW ought to be worried right about now. I'm loving it.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Sorry, I think she just didn't want to go to jail for a long time. I sure hope AC gets RN in front of a judge, steno and camera and gets her deposed about anything and everything. People who can slaughter 8 human beings in the middle of the night in their beds, some with infants sleeping with them, can have someone murdered.

Dropping those multiply felony charges to misdemeanors is a big deal. She better put out good. I can't believe I missed all this. Thanks to all who transcribed and gave moment to moments!

Anyone thinking witness protection program/WitSec?

 

[sunshineray]

Anyone thinking witness protection program/WitSec?

I know I'd be fearful in the same situation. Do you think she's excepted the fact that her daughter and grandsons murdered 8 human beings? If so...

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I know I'd be fearful in the same situation. Do you think she's excepted the fact that her daughter and grandsons murdered 8 human beings? If so...

I'm not sure how much she knew or suspected along the way. I go back and forth on that. However, I'd be fearful if I were in her shoes. I think anyone who provides information that has the potential to hurt the W4's case could be in danger. MOO