TX TX - Huntsville, 'Walker County Jane Doe', WhtFem 14-16, 91UFTX, Nov'80 #2 *NAME NOT RELEASED*

[MissInvizzible]

Do you think records were kept for part time employees? If you look back over people that would have worked in the area and check them against current criminal records, could that offer up new suspects? Is that even possible?

Thinking probably yes to a certain extent.
However I'm not sure if someone having a premeditated thought (if one existed) to harm the girl, would have been a legitimate employee or made record of her had they been. I did find a pretty neat pdf file that gave very good information about this particular prison and its documented MAJOR state employees but I feel like it was pretty limited as far as the smaller branches within or that would have been employed below such persons. Its certainly worth looking into.

 

[cvaldez1975]

I’ve read about the con thing somewhere.
You are right, those people weren’t too concerned. It is strange! She looks no older than 15...
What exactly would one mean though by “she looks as if she could pull a con”? Street smart, confidence? Maybe I’m naive but she looks like an innocent young girl to me.
She could’ve been involved in something?

the innocent look was the drawing. she may have been young but been through a lot / had to fend for herself. it lends to a hardness and non vulnerability.

 

[MissInvizzible]

I’ve read about the con thing somewhere.
You are right, those people weren’t too concerned. It is strange! She looks no older than 15...
What exactly would one mean though by “she looks as if she could pull a con”? Street smart, confidence? Maybe I’m naive but she looks like an innocent young girl to me.
She could’ve been involved in something?

Yes. I would think that is what that would mean most likely. Very able to run game on someone else who was not expecting such coming from a young lady. Which would immediately be, in my own personal opinion a great indication that she would have either grown up until that point having to find her own means of survival to live day to day, or that she would have possibly have been in a position where she had regular interaction with someone who did. Otherwise that person would have been inclined for that behavior just for the thrill of it.

I'm still incredibly curious about the niece of ottis toole who was "supposedly" killed by Henry lee lucas previously to said date. Yet it seems anything that he said should be taken only half seriously. It would be incredibly difficult to be fully sure that any story that he told to be the complete accurate truthful account. I have some suspicion that his assumed lies, included half or partial truths and that his assumed honest accounts included partial dishonesty. Look up the pictures of her. Also take note of the role she was playing in regard to ESPECIALLY the trucker's. And how they would drop her off and have her case businesses by asking directions etc.. also many unsuspecting people who felt inclined to assist a young lady in distress were to find themselves being surprised by other individual(s) upon agreeing to let her in or come to her aid.

The time lines 1.. could be argued most definitely. Yet I have not located any form of foolproof evidence that could not have been mistaken, not substantiated or even absentmindedly documented or assumed.
His account of what happened to her seemed like he would be only half honest. And to me the honest portion would have been the part where he seemed very much like a little child who was basically bad at keeping track and probably felt inclined to add detail that may have been irrelevant in order to seem more organized than he really was? He said after the initial statement that he murdered her...that he didnt really know and the last time he saw her she was looking at him out the window of a big rig and driving away.

Maybe the last time he really saw her was instead the result of a backfired plan to pull a con on someone dangerous. Even more so than he himself. I don't know. just something to ponder.

 

[MissInvizzible]

Yes. I would think that is what that would mean most likely. Very able to run game on someone else who was not expecting such coming from a young lady. Which would immediately be, in my own personal opinion a great indication that she would have either grown up until that point having to find her own means of survival to live day to day, or that she would have possibly have been in a position where she had regular interaction with someone who did. Otherwise that person would have been inclined for that behavior just for the thrill of it.

I'm still incredibly curious about the niece of ottis toole who was "supposedly" killed by Henry lee lucas previously to said date. Yet it seems anything that he said should be taken only half seriously. It would be incredibly difficult to be fully sure that any story that he told to be the complete accurate truthful account. I have some suspicion that his assumed lies, included half or partial truths and that his assumed honest accounts included partial dishonesty. Look up the pictures of her. Also take note of the role she was playing in regard to ESPECIALLY the trucker's. And how they would drop her off and have her case businesses by asking directions etc.. also many unsuspecting people who felt inclined to assist a young lady in distress were to find themselves being surprised by other individual(s) upon agreeing to let her in or come to her aid.

The time lines 1.. could be argued most definitely. Yet I have not located any form of foolproof evidence that could not have been mistaken, not substantiated or even absentmindedly documented or assumed.
His account of what happened to her seemed like he would be only half honest. And to me the honest portion would have been the part where he seemed very much like a little child who was basically bad at keeping track and probably felt inclined to add detail that may have been irrelevant in order to seem more organized than he really was? He said after the initial statement that he murdered her...that he didnt really know and the last time he saw her she was looking at him out the window of a big rig and driving away.

Maybe the last time he really saw her was instead the result of a backfired plan to pull a con on someone dangerous. Even more so than he himself. I don't know. just something to ponder.

They never actually did any real forensics on the pieces recovered that were supposed to have been her. and I read the coroner would not offer any guarantee that the body was indeed her own. only that it appeared to be a female and around the same age. It seems feasibly possible that body could have been a whole different girl that he would have known the location of to create a buffer to fill the inconsistency in his statement.

 

[sloane7777]

Yes. I would think that is what that would mean most likely. Very able to run game on someone else who was not expecting such coming from a young lady. Which would immediately be, in my own personal opinion a great indication that she would have either grown up until that point having to find her own means of survival to live day to day, or that she would have possibly have been in a position where she had regular interaction with someone who did. Otherwise that person would have been inclined for that behavior just for the thrill of it.

I'm still incredibly curious about the niece of ottis toole who was "supposedly" killed by Henry lee lucas previously to said date. Yet it seems anything that he said should be taken only half seriously. It would be incredibly difficult to be fully sure that any story that he told to be the complete accurate truthful account. I have some suspicion that his assumed lies, included half or partial truths and that his assumed honest accounts included partial dishonesty. Look up the pictures of her. Also take note of the role she was playing in regard to ESPECIALLY the trucker's. And how they would drop her off and have her case businesses by asking directions etc.. also many unsuspecting people who felt inclined to assist a young lady in distress were to find themselves being surprised by other individual(s) upon agreeing to let her in or come to her aid.

The time lines 1.. could be argued most definitely. Yet I have not located any form of foolproof evidence that could not have been mistaken, not substantiated or even absentmindedly documented or assumed.
His account of what happened to her seemed like he would be only half honest. And to me the honest portion would have been the part where he seemed very much like a little child who was basically bad at keeping track and probably felt inclined to add detail that may have been irrelevant in order to seem more organized than he really was? He said after the initial statement that he murdered her...that he didnt really know and the last time he saw her she was looking at him out the window of a big rig and driving away.

Maybe the last time he really saw her was instead the result of a backfired plan to pull a con on someone dangerous. Even more so than he himself. I don't know. just something to ponder.

that would make sense and some of the pictures of her are very close , but her grandmother died in 1982 and that's when she was sent to the state shelter , So if that info is correct our girl was murdered in 1980 so cant be "Becky"

 

[carbuff]

Might have been a reference to her lying about her age? Maybe somebody thought the innocence was an act?

that would make sense and some of the pictures of her are very close , but her grandmother died in 1982 and that's when she was sent to the state shelter , So if that info is correct our girl was murdered in 1980 so cant be "Becky"

I wonder if he had somebody else working with him before "Becky."

 

[cherrymeg]

Might have been a reference to her lying about her age? Maybe somebody thought the innocence was an act?


I wonder if he had somebody else working with him before "Becky."

It could have been the combination of looking young but seeming comfortable in a truck stop. It could have been her attitude. It doesn't seem like people thought she was a prostitute so maybe she seemed out of place. The shoes seem to not fit with her outfit. Teenagers can be confusing and act tougher than they are.

 

[cherrymeg]

I’ve read about the con thing somewhere.
You are right, those people weren’t too concerned. It is strange! She looks no older than 15...
What exactly would one mean though by “she looks as if she could pull a con”? Street smart, confidence? Maybe I’m naive but she looks like an innocent young girl to me.
She could’ve been involved in something?

I wonder if it was just her attitude. If you look sweet or are a woman or teenage girl people tend to expect certain reactions or behaviors. If you don't respond like a "lady" and are rude or defensive, you usually aren't described kindly. Sometimes that attitude saves your life. Unfortunately it didn't in her case.

 

[LucyOso]

That is a good question. Hazel eyes can look different depending on what someone wears or the light, right? When they found her she had bruising that occured prior to her death. Sorry if this has been asked but how long would it take for bruises to appear?

I've been in fights as a teenager that left immediate bruising near the eye. I both gave them and received them. It depends how hard you are hit and where really. The face is probably quick in comparison to a bruise on a portion of the body that has less cushion..

Heads and facial areas are extremely vascular, so any trauma or injury could have significant swelling, bleeding, and/or bruising. Hematomas and bruises can form fairly fast and pallor also enhances the appearance of bruising. These injuries can cause swelling and this can distort facial features. Injuries postmortem won’t bruise or swell after the fact, though there might be some leakage and lividity. Horrifically, you can tell, based on how swollen features are, if the person succumbed quickly to their injuries or where abused awhile before killed.

 

[TmmEye]

I did some profiling on the case recently using the guides of things such as cluster analysis, analysis of the crime scene (using the description and area) to determine Organized/Disorganized profile, and the type of killer WCJD was most likely killed by.

My research brought these ideas up:

• Jane Doe’s killer was likely very organized, undisciplined, sexually competent, and likely had average or above-average intelligence
• Jane Doe’s type of killer is what is considered a thrill killer, someone who killers for gratification, a good example of that would be a sexually motivated crime
• Cluster analysis was greater than a 4, which indicates she was likely killed by a Male
• Jane Doe’s killer was likely geographically dispersed when she died, indicating she died closer to the gas station she was possibly seen at

 

[Sweetluv]

I wonder how much search effort was put into the Capri car that dropped her off?...could of possibly had vital info. How many hours lapped between the time she was last seen and the time of estimated death?

 

[discardedwaffles]

Hi, I'm new and whatever, but I wanted to give my two cents on this case.

So, basically there's a website made by Microsoft called twinsornot.net, which actually does work with finding the person who you look similar to. I tested it to find a person who looks like me, and I apparently did find my doppelganger because the people I showed it to thought it was me. It makes me wonder if you can take reconstruction pictures of unidentifed deceased persons and compare them to pictures of people who have been missing for a long time.

I also wanted to add there's a website that automatically does 3d reconstructions of photos if that might be of any use. 3D Face Reconstruction

 

[Sweetluv]

If this was already discussed, apologies....but how do we get the DNA project to make our girl a candidate?!?!

 

[MissInvizzible]

Hi, I'm new and whatever, but I wanted to give my two cents on this case.

So, basically there's a website made by Microsoft called twinsornot.net, which actually does work with finding the person who you look similar to. I tested it to find a person who looks like me, and I apparently did find my doppelganger because the people I showed it to thought it was me. It makes me wonder if you can take reconstruction pictures of unidentifed deceased persons and compare them to pictures of people who have been missing for a long time.

I also wanted to add there's a website that automatically does 3d reconstructions of photos if that might be of any use. 3D Face Reconstruction

I've also been thinking about this.

 

[discardedwaffles]

I've also been thinking about this.

Here's a picture of Eileen Hynson that I imposed of a Jane Doe's autopsy photo on with a different angle with the 3d Reconstruction software.
I don't know about you guys, but this looks eerily similar.

So it makes me wonder if with a combination of FaceApp and 3d Reconstruction software that you could compare the jane doe's picture with that picture of Kathleen, but seeing what she might of looked like if she wasn't smiling.

 

[SVUfan]

Has WCJD been compared to Kelle Fernstrom ? She disappeared in 1980 and was a young looking twenty. It was posted that Kellie left behind a baby...a daughter. She was not officially reported missing until 2008

 

[TmmEye]

Has WCJD been compared to Kelle Fernstrom ? She disappeared in 1980 and was a young looking twenty. It was posted that Kellie left behind a baby...a daughter. She was not officially reported missing until 2008

I actually submitted that one. DNP ruled her out

 

[rosesfromangels]

I have always wondered what type of living circumstances WCJD must have come from that no one has claimed her, or seemingly put forth a missing persons report. We've seen this before with Buckskin Girl and Lyle Stevik. It defies my understanding, but apparently it happens.

I think this little gal must have been in the foster system, or just in a dysfunctional family that didn't want to draw any attention to themselves by filing police reports. If the latter was the case, I could see them saying to those that inquired, "oh she just ran off with some boy". If pressed, they might even say they heard from her from time to time.

WCJD was seemingly hardened at a young age; hitchhiking to a prison to visit someone, and responding with "who cares" when asked about her welfare. this demeanor could be teenage rebellion, or the byproduct of a neglected child.

I wonder if LE investigated any missing foster kids, or even considered it. Do foster kids have to give finger prints?

I suspect this is just a young gal from a dysfunctional family, but I think the foster angle is interesting too.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[LucyOso]

Here's a picture of Eileen Hynson that I imposed of a Jane Doe's autopsy photo on with a different angle with the 3d Reconstruction software.
I don't know about you guys, but this looks eerily similar.

So it makes me wonder if with a combination of FaceApp and 3d Reconstruction software that you could compare the jane doe's picture with that picture of Kathleen, but seeing what she might of looked like if she wasn't smiling.

I believe she was at some point. Carl?

 

[carbuff]

Has WCJD been compared to Kelle Fernstrom ? She disappeared in 1980 and was a young looking twenty. It was posted that Kellie left behind a baby...a daughter. She was not officially reported missing until 2008

Charley Project has her entered as Kelle Ferstrom Kelle Renee Ferstrom – The Charley Project

The nose is all wrong.