Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #118

[tresir2012]

LE would have found touch DNA from the girls anywhere the girls touched their own or each other's clothing or belongings. LE would have to test every sample to see whether it belonged to the girls or to someone else. They might not have found anyone else's DNA.

Might not but unlikely IMO. Abby herself was wearing the same clothes she had been photographed in the day she was photographed at the hotel with her grandfather and both were wearing borrowed sweatshirts and had travelled to the trails in a vehicle belonging to Libby's sister, therefore would also have picked up touch DNA from the vehicle interior and door handles plus touch DNA from Libby's home and from any visitors to the home. It is mind boggling.

ETA. Also, if they had identified all the DNA, as you suggest, why are they swabbing suspects or obtaining DNA from people like Etter?

 

[MingyMoo]

Would it be possible to attach the photo. I'm outside USA and get denied access to the link. Thanks

I am in the same boat :-(

 

[MingyMoo]

DBM

 

[Ozoner]

Might not but unlikely IMO. Abby herself was wearing the same clothes she had been photographed in the day she was photographed at the hotel with her grandfather and both were wearing borrowed sweatshirts and had travelled to the trails in a vehicle belonging to Libby's sister, therefore would also have picked up touch DNA from the vehicle interior and door handles plus touch DNA from Libby's home and from any visitors to the home. It is mind boggling.

ETA. Also, if they had identified all the DNA, as you suggest, why are they swabbing suspects or obtaining DNA from people like Etter?

True--they may have touch DNA from random people. They probably don't have DNA that's obviously from the killer (such as from semen or from blood that wasn't Abby's or Libby's).

 

[tresir2012]

Arrest in 2015 Trail Assault-Updated 4/10/19

This was a vicious assault but the victim lived. This took four years until his DNA showed up in CODIS. He would have been 20 in 2015 in Iowa but was arrested in Aurora, Colorado. $1.5m bail. If BG is young this could be why his DNA is not in the system yet.

 

[Falling Down]

Might not but unlikely IMO. Abby herself was wearing the same clothes she had been photographed in the day she was photographed at the hotel with her grandfather and both were wearing borrowed sweatshirts and had travelled to the trails in a vehicle belonging to Libby's sister, therefore would also have picked up touch DNA from the vehicle interior and door handles plus touch DNA from Libby's home and from any visitors to the home. It is mind boggling.

ETA. Also, if they had identified all the DNA, as you suggest, why are they swabbing suspects or obtaining DNA from people like Etter?

My guess would be they had to rule him in or out re: other cases.

JMO

I never thought Etter was involved in the Delphi case, however I figured LE would at least get his DNA on file for obvious reasons.

 

[Falling Down]

Could the white loopy thing sticking up from beneath BG'S clothing be some kind of hand action pump and tubing used to spray the scene with some chemical that might eradicate DNA or make it harder to identify? I know, sounds pretty far fetched, just trying to think outside the box here...

Your guess is as good as anyone's. He could have had a Camelback or some other thing connected to it.

I think it's part of a tool/weapon, but who knows?

JMO

 

[Peppery]

UPDATED: Foul play suspected after bodies found along Deer Creek in Delphi; vigil held

Photo #5 FWIW, I don’t think this is Leazenby, and I don’t see a shoe print, moo

 

[tresir2012]

UPDATED: Foul play suspected after bodies found along Deer Creek in Delphi; vigil held

Photo #5 FWIW, I don’t think this is Leazenby, and I don’t see a shoe print, moo
View attachment 219266

Thanks for posting. No forensics suit, gloves or feet coverings on him, whoever he is stomping around the crime scene. I agree he is not Leazenby, but wonder who it is contaminating the scene?

 

[almagata]

Arrest in 2015 Trail Assault-Updated 4/10/19

This was a vicious assault but the victim lived. This took four years until his DNA showed up in CODIS. He would have been 20 in 2015 in Iowa but was arrested in Aurora, Colorado. $1.5m bail. If BG is young this could be why his DNA is not in the system yet.

This case as a good find. Thank you for posting it.

There was another article :UPDATE: Bond set at $1.5 M in 2015 trail attack

It says that in 2017, Burt had an outburst at his father's house over a video game and was arrested. It was that arrest that eventually lead to his DNA being submitted to CODIS. So it took another two years from that arrest before the match was made to the DNA from the 2015 case.

On one of Burt's Facebook pages, he has three, there was a post about a month before the 2015 attack where Burt was telling family and friends to F-off.

I have to imagine that BG has similar anger outbursts in his history and has problems with his relationships with family and friends. MOO

 

[tresir2012]

On that last link can someone copy pasta it in directly as I cannot read it where I live.

(Subject to 10% rule of course)

 

[tresir2012]

Is there a map anywhere showing the location their bodies were found and how that relates to the bridge?

Go to post 1 on here and check out the link to maps, media and timeline thread. There is also a case map by skibaboo.

 

[stattlich1]

UPDATED: Foul play suspected after bodies found along Deer Creek in Delphi; vigil held

Photo #5 FWIW, I don’t think this is Leazenby, and I don’t see a shoe print, moo
View attachment 219266

I saved that photo to my drive, then opened it, and enlarged it. There is not a shoe print in terms of the exact pattern of the bottom of a sneaker, (at least not that I have found) rather a spot above that dead tree roots where it appears the dirt in the bank has been disturbed such that a person planted their foot there to step up that steep bank.

Whoever that guy is, he appears to be carrying a firearm, and a few other goodies.

carry on

 

[tresir2012]

That's a bit depressing if it is taking 2 years to match DNA from CODIS isn't it? 2 years from his crime till they luckily got his DNA then another 2 years for matching. And he travelled at least 800 miles in the meantime. I found the original post of the Waterloo incident on the Alicia Hummel thread then searched and realised they had got him this year. I hope they check the Alicia Hummel murder and Abby and Libby as it is similar. As well as checking Lyric and Lizzie case too as he lived in Cedar Falls.

 

[Thelastleg]

UPDATED: Foul play suspected after bodies found along Deer Creek in Delphi; vigil held

Photo #5 FWIW, I don’t think this is Leazenby, and I don’t see a shoe print, moo
View attachment 219266

@MingyMoo this is what I was asking for. Thanks Peppery

 

[sunshineray]

LE has hinted that they have DNA, but never confirmed. As I pointed out earlier, 1st Sgt Holeman stated at the 2018 CrimeCon, they 'will not deny nor confirm they have DNA'. Sgt Kim Riley stated within the first couple of months that they never said they have DNA.

Yes but Sheriff Leazenby kind of confirmed it in an article, a RadarOnline article (still wondering how that one came about).

“We sent more evidence to the FBI at Quantico just before Christmas,” Sheriff Leazenby told Radar in an exclusive interview and said they were doing “DNA testing research,” with regards to the case..."

There would be none of that "DNA testing research" without recovered crime scene DNA

Cops Send Evidence To FBI In Indiana Teens Abigail Williams & Liberty German’s Murder

 

[stattlich1]

As far as if LE has the killers DNA or not, to state either way would likely be pure speculation, however, it is clear they have indicated on more than one occasion that they do have DNA from the crime scene.

I would surmise Holeman saying he would neither confirm nor deny the existence of DNA was simply a tweak in strategy in an attempt to keep the killer guessing.

carry on!

 

[155etta]

Things I def remember from waaaaaay back, but sadly have no links for... perhaps others may recall as well-

RL blurting out in an interview those very earliest days something about (paraphrasing)
*I just thought they were just kids getting into a car, as kids do...*

LE saying (paraphrased) *At first approach we didn't realize it was the/a crime scene* (which lead ME to then ponder hanging, the need to look up...)

A searcher saying he spotted two deer then looked up to see the girls (again, up... ???) I don't believe Abby's Mom got the whole story, saying recently she heard they were found side by side. I don't take that to be necessarily true, she may have been misinformed...)

And finally, talk of other kids (boys?) sleeping over somewhere too that fateful wkend... maybe some watched or were by some other means aware as the girls drove off... and decided to follow? Maybe someone was following location of Libby's phone? (I do find it odd her phone was acting up just a day or so before... I think somebody messed with it, trying to erase evidence of perhaps having messed with HER. It happens to many, too many girls.

Again no links, things I recall reading, unsure just where and how reliable ...

Wow. I'd never thought of hanging. That could explain why there is so little DNA. And no blood. After following another case here of a double hanging, I'm wondering about the mechanics of hanging them outdoors. No chairs to kick out from under them. <modsnip> How would he hoist them up?

 

[stattlich1]

Wow. I'd never thought of hanging. That could explain why there is so little DNA. And no blood. After following another case here of a double hanging, I'm wondering about the mechanics of hanging them outdoors. No chairs to kick out from under them. <modsnip> How would he hoist them up?

The one thing that continually comes up in my mind is that nobody heard a thing. No screams? No gunfire?

I've read the argument about the remoteness, etc. But I'm a country boy, and I guarantee somebody that was on that trail would have heard a gunshot, or a scream.

I think they had to have been gagged, or murdered, real early on OR.....

they willingly went with BG, because they thought they were meeting up with someone that was not a threat.

It will take some convincing for me that one girl watched the other die, without screaming.

 

[Brubon]

Arrest in 2015 Trail Assault-Updated 4/10/19

This was a vicious assault but the victim lived. This took four years until his DNA showed up in CODIS. He would have been 20 in 2015 in Iowa but was arrested in Aurora, Colorado. $1.5m bail. If BG is young this could be why his DNA is not in the system yet.