Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #118

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I think he wore gloves.


MOO I don't think she was still alive when the phone rang.
But he knew it was time to go then.

Sometimes I wonder if he were a cleaner. You know, offices, windows, mabye Indiana Packers? Cleaners have all this stuff to get rid of the DNA by default, and cleaners are like mailmen - always around, but easily forgotten.
 
Media Timeline 14
Abby & Libby
Articles by WISH-TV News 8 (only)
Includes some videos

(@margarita25 for WS 12/9/2019)

——

Media Timeline
Abigail Williams & Liberty German
Delphi, Indiana
Feb 14, 2017 - Nov 19, 2019


2017

Feb 14, 2017

Community showing support for families of missing girls in Carroll County

ISP: Two bodies found, not yet identified in missing girls case

Photos: Vigil for Delphi murder victims


Feb 15, 2017

Police seek man in connection with Delphi teen killings


Feb 16, 2017

Police question multiple people in Delphi girls’ murders

Benefit ride to raise money for the families of Carroll County teens

Slain teens task force serves search warrant in connection to murder of Delphi teens


Feb 17, 2017

Delphi home searched in connection to double-homicide investigation

Delphi mayor humbled by community support after tragic event

As police continue Delphi homicide investigation, community comes together to help

Community continues to rally behind families of Carroll County teens


Feb 19, 2017

Suspect announcement gives residents sense of hope for justice


Feb 20, 2017

Delphi trail organizer in talks to put security cams on trail

Fitness centers offering free workshops in self defense to empower community


Feb 21, 2017

Elementary students send ‘penny prayers’ to Delphi families

Dispatchers receive close to 1,000 calls into tip line for Carroll County murder cases


Feb 22, 2017

Vigil held for slain Carroll County teens

ISP: Audio recovered from cellphone in Delphi double homicide investigation

Delphi reacts to suspect audio release: ‘Chills down my spine’


Feb 23, 2017

Reward for info leading to arrest in murders of Delphi teens increases to $50,000

FBI launch digital billboard campaign for Carroll County teens

Cyber expert discusses Delphi murders


Feb 24, 2017

Delphi bank raises money for trail cameras

Carroll Co. Sheriff clears up misconceptions on Delphi double homicide


Feb 25, 2017

Investigators continuing to follow up on leads in Delphi case

Benefit held for families of Abby Williams and Libby German

State police release PSA to help find suspect in murders of 2 teens


Feb 26, 2017

Larger headquarters for Delphi girls’ deaths investigation


Feb 27, 2017

Benefit held for families of Abby Williams and Libby German

Reward increases to $96,000 for info leading to arrest in Delphi case


Feb 28, 2017

Reward now more than $100,000 in Delphi murders of two teens

ISP says no arrest yet in Delphi murders

Locals light up Delphi in orange for justice


March 1, 2017

Donations from Pat McAfee, Jim Irsay raise Delphi reward to $211K

Police: Delphi rumors could hurt investigation

Butler Tarkington man pushes for answers in murder of little boy
(mentions Abby & Libby)


March 2, 2017

Singing Contractors make song, video tribute to murdered Delphi teens

Donations continue to come in for information leading to arrest in Delphi case

Investigators say every day is one step closer to finding suspect in Delphi murders


March 3, 2017

Investigation into murder of Carroll County teens heads into day 17


March 7, 2017

Business holds fundraiser to help find suspect in Delphi murders


March 9, 2017

ISP: Please avoid duplicating your tip in Delphi double murder investigation

Delphi teen murder victim’s family speaks publicly for first time


March 10, 2017

Investigators relying on training and faith during Delphi murder case


March 12, 2017

Mom of slain Delphi teen shares her story


March 13, 2017

Delphi trail task force explores ways to make paths safer

‘Person of interest’ in Delphi homicides to return to Indiana


March 16, 2017

Delphi homicide investigation leads to unrelated arrests


March 17, 2017

Search underway of home, property of man where Delphi teens were found

Search for suspect, support for family continues in Delphi double homicide case

More than a month later, the search is still on for who killed Abby and Libby


March 22, 2017

More than a month later, investigation continues in Delphi double murder case


March 23, 2017

Wheelchair tour to honor Delphi girls, raise money for kids in need

Award winning activist will use part of wheelchair tour to honor Abby Williams, Libby German


March 24, 2017

Investigation in Delphi still ongoing despite some investigators returning to their ‘home base’


March 27, 2017

After the 6-week anniversary of the unsolved murders in Delphi, there’s still hope


April 3, 2017

Owner of property where two teen girls went missing in Delphi visited dump on same day


April 10, 2017

Owner of property where bodies of girls in Delphi case were found sentenced to nearly 4 years for probation violation


April 14, 2017

Fundraiser scheduled to raise money to build softball field and park for Delphi girls


April 27, 2017

Families of murdered Delphi teens announce plans for fundraiser, memorial park


May 7, 2017

Delphi community invited to walk and restore hope


May 13, 2017

Delphi community invited to walk and restore hope


May 16, 2017

Girl Scout troop dedicates benches to Flora girls killed in house fire


May 19, 2017

Hundreds attend benefit concert for Delphi teens found murdered


June 10, 2017

Nancy Grace talks Delphi murders at Crime Con


June 16, 2017

Police: Delphi homicides far from cold case; 18K tips received


June 23, 2017

Slain Delphi girl would have turned 14 Friday

Fatal Flora fire discussion comes to a halt
(mentions Abby & Libby)


July 5, 2017

Group raising money to increase safety on trails in Delphi


July 17, 2017

New information on Delphi murder case to be released Monday

Mom of slain Delphi girl: ‘We’re one step closer’ after sketch released


July 18, 2017

Police add extra staff to analyze new tips in Delphi double murder


July 19, 2017

What goes into police sketch? Artist explains process


July 26, 2017

Thousands donated toward Delphi Trail Safety Task Force fundraiser


Aug 3, 2017

Delphi homicides tip leads to 2007 cold case arrest


Sept 5, 2017

Delphi ready for trail upgrades after 2 murders


Sept 27, 2017

Investigators in Delphi double homicide made ‘aware’ of Colorado arrestee


Sept 28, 2017

Grandpa of Delphi double homicide victim: ‘Don’t consider this solved’

Indiana State Police in Colorado to interview ‘person of interest’ in Delphi murders investigation


Oct 3, 2017

ISP: ‘No information to include or exclude’ Nations as suspect in Delphi case

Police review info after tip possibly links man to Delphi double homicides


Oct 5, 2017

Facebook post raises new questions in Delphi double murders


Oct 29, 2017

Veterans to accompany trick-or-treaters in Delphi


Nov 12, 2017

Carroll County prosecutor to retire amidst high-profile investigations


Dec 5, 2017

New prosecutor named in Carroll County


2018

Jan 15, 2018

Tenn. sheriff’s department says Delphi murder suspect not spotted in area


Jan 17, 2018

New interview brings Delphi murders to national attention


Jan 23, 2018

Indianapolis Special Agent in Charge discusses retiring after 30 year career


Jan 25, 2018

‘Person of interest’ in Delphi homicides to return to Indiana


Feb 4, 2018

Person of interest in Delphi murders returns to Indiana on unrelated charges


Feb 13, 2018

Video / Delphi Officials Hold Press Conference On Year Anniversary of Teens' Murders


Indiana police hope anniversary of teens’ murders spurs tips

Indiana State Police leader addresses Delphi murders on anniversary

Facebook:
WISH-TV


Feb 14, 2018

‘They both were just full of light’ Delphi Community Middle School principal, counselor remember Abby and Libby


Feb 25, 2018

1 year since sketch of suspect, police stay tight-lipped on Delphi girls’ murders


May 30, 2018

New FBI Special Agent in charge of Indianapolis division talks career, cases
(Updated: Jul 17, 2019)


July 17, 2018

1 year since sketch of suspect, police stay tight-lipped on Delphi girls’ murders


Sept 29, 2018

Community raises funds to finish Abby and Libby softball field


Sept 30, 2018

Delphi gathers to celebrate lives of Abby and Libby


Oct 12, 2018

Motorcycle raffle benefits Abby and Libby memorial


Nov 16, 2018

FBI still actively investigating Delphi double homicide case


Nov 21, 2018

Delphi, St. Louis police talk about man charged with murder in Catholic Supply store


2019


Feb 11, 2019

Delphi murders: Former FBI agent discusses unsolved 2017 case

It’s been almost two years since the Delphi murders. The case is still unsolved.


Feb 13, 2019

People come to Delphi church to remember murdered girls

Public urged to keep providing tips in 2 girls’ killings

Facebook:

Feb 14, 2019

Video:
Remembering Abby and Libby in Delphi

Delphi murders: Family, friends ‘Light up the Night’ to honor Abby and Libby


April 1, 2019

Families of Abby and Libby find healing through memorial park work


April 19, 2019

ISP to announce new direction of Delphi murders investigation


April 22, 2019

Video:
New information in 2017 Delphi murders

ISP releases another sketch, more video and sound in Delphi murder case

Facebook / Video:
WISH-TV - WATCH: Authorities provide detail on a "new...


April 23, 2019

Retired FBI agent analyzes new details in Delphi case

ISP releases another sketch, more video and sound in Delphi murder case

Police receive more than 1,000 tips after release of new Delphi evidence


April 24, 2019

Indiana State Police clarify reasons for 2nd sketch in Delphi murders case


April 30, 2019

Sheriff: Stop posting images of people you think committed Delphi murders


May 6, 2019

Police: Delphi homicides far from cold case; 18K tips received


May 16, 2019

ISP Superintendent Doug Carter talks Delphi murder investigation

ISP leader updates Delphi double murder investigation


July 9, 2019

Libby German's sister plans to address rumors involving family, Delphi case


July 10, 2019

Libby German’s sister dispels rumors on Delphi homicides during live stream


July 15, 2019

It’s been almost two years since the Delphi murders. The case is still unsolved.


Nov 16, 2019

Donations from Pat McAfee, Jim Irsay raise Delphi reward to $211K


Nov 19, 2019

Abby and Libby Memorial Park project gets donation of lights
 
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I totally believe this guy took a photo(s) of the clothing in the creek. I bet he has more than one because photographers take multiple shots so they can choose the best photo.

He also took this photo so he was very near the crime scene.

Thank you. That photographer got amazingly close. When I saw that photo #5 I couldn't figure out exactly where it was taken from other than it couldn't be zoom from far away. Trees would have blocked it, given the low angle.

Plus he seems to have taken pictures on both sides of Deer Creek.

He must have been there before the bodies were discovered, and then trusted his journalistic instincts once he saw the area of commotion. I have been in situations like that. The Tupac murder occurred only hundreds of yards from the Koval Lane (Las Vegas) apartment complex where I was living at the time. Law enforcement is too busy scrambling to figure out what happened and what steps they need to take, to worry about clearing out everyone from the general area. A well-equipped photographer has a big jump on things, especially if he is instinctive and patient enough to remain in the shadows just far enough away, instead of rushing forward and forcing spotlight upon himself.

Down near that creek there are plenty of areas to observe while not being conspicuous. Heck, that may have been what contributed to this tragedy in the first place. Then when opportunity presents itself the photographer can find the proper angle and emerge to take plenty of shots.

I don't doubt at all that he might have photos of clothing. Also he has many, many other pictures. In a situation like that it is hardly one at a time and then sit a spell like Jed Clampett.
 
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I take it to mean "DNA testing research" as what it says, research not just plain testing. That means they must have a sample they are trying to track and/or link. The Sheriff went on to say:

"The Sheriff told Radar that the Golden State Killer arrest was influential in their investigation. “We are very much looking into that as a way to move this case forward,” he explained. “We are doing DNA testing research. With 23 and Me and the other places that do it, that is something that has been discussed.”

This says to me the same DNA family research done in the GSK was also being tried in the Delphi case. Again, they would have to have some recovered DNA to do such research.

Then the DNA needs to be linked up with relatives, assuming relatives of BG have submitted DNA to DNA sites. It could take many months or even years to get a link to a distant relative.

Then they'd have to go through all kinds of public records to get to BG. The GSK investigators went stomping through cemeteries, too, based off of the work of forensic genealogists.

Now all things considered, let's say a bunch of people in and around Delphi have been swabbed. One would think they could get a familial match based off of that alone, and not go through all the hassle of having to go the GEDMatch route. I mention this based off of LE's insistence that the killer is at least fairly local. Far as I'm concerned I don't know what to think about the guy being local or not.
 
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Thank you. That photographer got amazingly close. When I saw that photo #5 I couldn't figure out exactly where it was taken from other than it couldn't be zoom from far away. Trees would have blocked it, given the low angle.

Plus he seems to have taken pictures on both sides of Deer Creek.

He must have been there before the bodies were discovered, and then trusted his journalistic instincts once he saw the area of commotion. I have been in situations like that. The Tupac murder occurred only hundreds of yards from the Koval Lane (Las Vegas) apartment complex where I was living at the time. Law enforcement is too busy scrambling to figure out what happened and what steps they need to take, to worry about clearing out everyone from the general area. A well-equipped photographer has a big jump on things, especially if he is instinctive and patient enough to remain in the shadows just far enough away, instead of rushing forward and forcing spotlight upon himself.

Down near that creek there are plenty of areas to observe while not being conspicuous. Heck, that may have been what contributed to this tragedy in the first place. Then when opportunity presents itself the photographer can find the proper angle and emerge to take plenty of shots.

I don't doubt at all that he might have photos of clothing. Also he has many, many other pictures. In a situation like that it is hardly one at a time and then sit a spell like Jed Clampett.
When I enlarged that #5 photo I noticed, on the right side, a somewhat blurry line running from top to bottom. At first I thought the area of the bank right there was crumbling because it looked like the dirt was in motion with a stop action blur. But in zooming out again, I think it's a blade of some vegetation in front of the camera lens causing it. So photographer was probably across the creek a distance away, maybe squatted down, probably trying not to be noticed and chased away.

I also see spots/areas of the bank in front of the investigator where it looks disturbed and possible foot hold marks going up the bank. AJMO and my eyes.
 
(SBM)

I hope they check the Alicia Hummel murder and Abby and Libby as it is similar. As well as checking Lyric and Lizzie case too as he lived in Cedar Falls.

Dear @tresir2012,

I totally agree with you that they consider that suspect as a potential POI in the Lyric and Lizzie case, especially since the driving distance between Cedar Falls and Evansdale is just 11.7 miles. Yet the drive between Cedar Falls, IA and Delphi, IN is well over 6 hours.
 
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Then the DNA needs to be linked up with relatives, assuming relatives of BG have submitted DNA to DNA sites. It could take many months or even years to get a link to a distant relative.

Then they'd have to go through all kinds of public records to get to BG. The GSK investigators went stomping through cemeteries, too, based off of the work of forensic genealogists.

Now all things considered, let's say a bunch of people in and around Delphi have been swabbed. One would think they could get a familial match based off of that alone, and not go through all the hassle of having to go the GEDMatch route. I mention this based off of LE's insistence that the killer is at least fairly local. Far as I'm concerned I don't know what to think about the guy being local or not.

@Falling Down, so let's say that, when LE *did* go through Delphi, getting all kinds of DNA swabs, the killer and his family members just *happened* to be "busy", or... unexpectedly "out of town" at the time. And suppose (entirely hypothetical, of course) that someone in the killer's immediate family also just *happened* to send out an all-family text message and/or an e-mail, advising family members in other parts of the state (or in other parts of the country, for that matter) to a. avoid being swabbed, or to b. avoid leaving ordinary things (think: paper cups, water bottles, etc.) in public trash containers near fast food places, etc., and even to c. avoid dining out...

What if?

All JMOO.
 
“Williams and German’s murder scene was so gruesome that State Police Superintendent Doug Carter expressed his horror at the crime. “I’ll never be able to unsee what I saw that day,” he said.
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That's strong language; it makes it sound like whatever was done to the girls was way outside the norm. I'm sure Carter has seen plenty of murder scenes where the victim was strangled or beaten to death. These killings must have been something much worse. So BG must have spent more time at the crime scene than I had thought
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However, the funerals were open casket, right? So presumably the girls hands and faces were unaffected by whatever was done to them.
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I really hope that whatever terrible things were done to the girls were done post-mortem. If they weren't, I might not want to know.
 
May 16, 2019

WIBC
ISP Superintendent to WISH on Delphi Murders: "We Just Can't Show Our Hand"

"I think if he wasn't in the room, he was close by. I'm 100% convinced he was watching," Carter said.

Sander asked Carter why the video of the man seen moving in the video wasn't released sooner.

"We'll be able to tell you one day what we know and why we didn't release it. We don't want to show our hand. We don't want to show the complete picture of what we know versus what we think," Carter said.

Sander later asked Carter why the public doesn't know how the girls died.

"Because only the killer knows that and so do we. But remember, while people starve for information, particularly for sensationalized events like this, we can't show our hand. We just can't," Carter said.”

Excellent post! Gives a great opportunity for a guy to speculate :)

MOO,

That he clearly states his belief the killer was close by, 100 percent convinced the killer was watching. Well, I don't interpret that as meaning the killer was in Indianapolis, or Lafayette, in particular when keeping in mind "We also believe this person is from Delphi- currently, or has previously lived here, visits Delphi on a regular basis, or works here."

I think the killer holds a position, likely a position of authority, in the community, has a job in Delphi, and is someone absolutely least likely to be suspect.

It appears the manner of death to be unique, such that few, if not ONLY one person would know the details.

The question that comes to my mind is, he implies there was a reason why they did not release the video earlier.....so what changed, in that, they eventually could release it?
 
“Williams and German’s murder scene was so gruesome that State Police Superintendent Doug Carter expressed his horror at the crime. “I’ll never be able to unsee what I saw that day,” he said.

The words 'gruesome' and 'horror' were not used by Carter, they appear to me to be sensationalist terms used by a sensationalist gossip tabloid.
 
The words 'gruesome' and 'horror' were not used by Carter, they appear to me to be sensationalist terms used by a sensationalist gossip tabloid.
Carter's words were strong enough on their own. One would think that seeing victims of strangulation or bludgeoning wouldn't faze him. Something truly horrific must have been done to the girls, but what? If the killer had taken any body parts with him, would we have heard? (I'm thinking of Ed Gein, who took skin from his victims or from graves that he robbed.)
 
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Carter's words were strong enough on their own. One would think that seeing victims of strangulation or bludgeoning wouldn't faze him. Something truly horrific must have been done to the girls, but what? If the killer had taken any body parts with him, would we have heard? (I'm thinking of Ed Gein, who took skins from his victims or from graves that he robbed.)

I get it. For me, to see any child, or person, who was murdered, would be horrific, no matter the circumstances of death.

My mind can speculate all sorts of stuff but I'll not mention most of it here.

A brutal crime scene and a lack of killer's DNA would be a question that comes up for me quite often, how do the two coexist?

The other thing that comes to mind is the searcher(s) that found the girls. Possibly they did not 'see' all the details? If they did see, then it stands to reason some trauma would follow, how is it they have remained silent for these few years?
 
@Falling Down, so let's say that, when LE *did* go through Delphi, getting all kinds of DNA swabs, the killer and his family members just *happened* to be "busy", or... unexpectedly "out of town" at the time. And suppose (entirely hypothetical, of course) that someone in the killer's immediate family also just *happened* to send out an all-family text message and/or an e-mail, advising family members in other parts of the state (or in other parts of the country, for that matter) to a. avoid being swabbed, or to b. avoid leaving ordinary things (think: paper cups, water bottles, etc.) in public trash containers near fast food places, etc., and even to c. avoid dining out...

What if?

All JMOO.
I cannot imagine if this were true that someone in the family wouldn't have tipped off LE by now, if you're doing that you're sending up red flags as the the "why" to all of your family, and someone is going to put two and two together. You would be banking on no one in your family having a conscious to take that risk. What's more likely, IMO, is perhaps BG is an only child of only children and the parents are already protecting him by lying about his alibi, etc, and avoiding any type of genealogy site is low risk for them. If they have begun this work and are still coming up empty, this would just be another angle where BG has "lucked out" and I have to believe at some point his luck is going to run out (maybe LE should be scrutinizing who is buying lottery tickets, because BG certainly should have by now with how lucky he seems to be so far!).
 
Excellent post! Gives a great opportunity for a guy to speculate :)

MOO,

That he clearly states his belief the killer was close by, 100 percent convinced the killer was watching. Well, I don't interpret that as meaning the killer was in Indianapolis, or Lafayette, in particular when keeping in mind "We also believe this person is from Delphi- currently, or has previously lived here, visits Delphi on a regular basis, or works here."

I think the killer holds a position, likely a position of authority, in the community, has a job in Delphi, and is someone absolutely least likely to be suspect.

It appears the manner of death to be unique, such that few, if not ONLY one person would know the details.

The question that comes to my mind is, he implies there was a reason why they did not release the video earlier.....so what changed, in that, they eventually could release it?

Possibly BG was spitting tobacco off the side, and the video shows that, and they did recover DNA from the spot.
 
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Dear @tresir2012,

I totally agree with you that they consider that suspect as a potential POI in the Lyric and Lizzie case, especially since the driving distance between Cedar Falls and Evansdale is just 11.7 miles. Yet the drive between Cedar Falls, IA and Delphi, IN is well over 6 hours.
Yes but travelling for him was not a problem as he was arrested 800 miles west of Waterloo/Cedar Falls in Colorado. I posted it to show how far these perps can travel.
 
I get it. For me, to see any child, or person, who was murdered, would be horrific, no matter the circumstances of death.

My mind can speculate all sorts of stuff but I'll not mention most of it here.

A brutal crime scene and a lack of killer's DNA would be a question that comes up for me quite often, how do the two coexist?

The other thing that comes to mind is the searcher(s) that found the girls. Possibly they did not 'see' all the details? If they did see, then it stands to reason some trauma would follow, how is it they have remained silent for these few years?
They haven't remained silent - hence the rumours.
 
I read a lot of the posts regarding DNA, and as a person who works on cold cases and does a little for the detectives on active cases, I can tell you that DNA is fragile, touch DNA is extremely hard to get and is in most cases, "not enough" to get any real results. TV and crime shows have given the public a false image of this technology for most of the cases. You have to have enough DNA to work with. Sometimes you only have DNA from the mother's side, because the father's side degrades quickly and does not stand up to elements. So now you have to have some one or another sample to compare to the mother's DNA. Sometimes you have enough to put into CODIS, but not what these other labs need to do Genealogy testing. DNA comes from blood, hair, bone, semen, skin cells, urine if there are skin cells, same with spit. All of the these samples are volatile. It depends on where you found them, how long they were out in the elements and if (in the case of hair) you have a root. If you have a root, then you get both "X & Y" A full profile. Same with a tooth, if you have pulp and it is not too degraded you get your profile. Partial profiles don't go to CODIS the national, they go to the State Labs, and they don't get searched unless you ask to search them. Not all states have them. So if they got DNA, they are not saying what kind, what shape, condition, because they don't want to "show their hand". There are new tests, but they are very expensive and your budget has to cover it. Hope this helps.
 
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