Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #49

[Warshawski]

Bearbear, Whangarei, when did this chance happened in Victoria.
Because in First week February 2015 I and another Mum witnessed a strange incident where the incident happened was in small country Victorian Town .
I know the date and time as I just dropped off my child first day at, 8.45 am the newly build Kinder it was it's first opening day as well since the first day was only for two hour session, few of the Mums decided to hang around nearby in case we got called,so we were going to cafe at the petrol station on the Highway about 10 minute walk.
Due to the heat was already rising( Was very hot day) Mums decided to take their cars, I decided to walk with another mum, to the cafe. Just as we were going past park,the mum in her condition needed to go to the Bathroom, from the road we saw a black station wagon parked in front of the toilet block which struck us both as odd as you are not allowed to drive in.
.
A man was standing beside the car, on the right side were the men toilets were, wearing blue singlet shorts, build and attitude of a bouncer, smoking throwing the butt on ground She was concerned about that asked me to join her when we both notice a small child , I would say 4-5 years but it was only a glimese year leaving the car, short light hair but what struck us odd it was already very warm was wearing long grey track suit why was the child not at Kinder or school as there had already started. We presumed he was going to his Mum as he was running down the left side to entrance to the Ladies Toilet. Due to this my friend and I thought it was it was safe for her to go I could go to the cafe ahead.
All of this happened in the time of 15 minutes, I got to the cafe but change my mind I had a bad gut feeling as I remember the man had a very angry attiude was shouting at the child, I mention to one of the Mums about the man smoking,when she told there was a no smoking sign in the park. I left the cafe I saw my friend not far from the main road in a distressed state. I saw and screech of brakes as the black station wagon swung behind her,the car stopped on angle nearly across the of the road, the driver's window was wind down, I could see the guy giving her rude gestures with his arm he was mouthing(she said it sounded like abuse but she did not hear the words) he indicated for her to move. She told him, I could hear her words, "well go pass me I am not on the road". He pointed to her which direct to the right she was to walk,which would mean she had turn her back on the car he did this quite a few times.She finally shouted at him,"What is your problem, you can go pass, I am on the sidewalk". The guy sprung the car around sharply, a lot a dirt\ dust and pebbles when up in the air and drove fast down the country road.
I found out my friend could not move from the side of the road or take the direction the indicated for her to take as she had had an accident. Both calls of nature she was very upset. She said the guy would not let her go into the toilet, shouted abuse her and chase her away when she came near or to explain she needed to go. When the guy abused her on the road,the car windows were tinted,with the driver's window she saw no female on the front passenger side. (If I had known that I would had gone with her to the park). I ran to the toilet block to female side,( thinking did we imagine seeing the child going into Female toilet) The toilet were freshly cleaned were opened at 9.15 am.(I found out) only one toilet had been used(other two still had the cleaning products in them) the one used middle one had not been flushed, there were drips on the seat four on the ground in front of the toilet, it had the smell a child's urine confirmed by other Mums.
The Mum did not want to file a complain,we kept an eye out for the car and man but never saw them again. After the Kinder year I had not seen her again.

I have keep and open mind about this.
Before and during 2015 I believed William had been lost in the Australian Bush.

This is quite a poignant & alarming post Shadow. Have you reported to any 'authorities' ?

 

[deugirtni]

And we know from the Inquest that GO was in Kendall that morning ...( the day WT went missing) paying his advertising at the Kendall Community Centre ....

We know the Community Centre was open on Thursday Mornings from the local paper ....

We do have links for this info .... if some one has them please feel free to post ... and greatfully accepted .... Or I will post them later .... I just don’t have a lot of time right now ... sorry ...

I think I am missing the point being made about the Centre being open on Thurs mornings? GO was there on Fri morning between 10-11am, which includes the same timeframe in which W disappeared, so I'm wondering if there is also relevance to the centre being open on the Thursday? (Or did you just mean to type Friday instead?)

 

[peekinandy]

I just find it coincidental that they were searching at a sawmill at Herons Creek - I believe around the time that Geoff Owen appeared at the inquest. Now we hear that Geoff Owen was donating his time/labour/materials/whatever for cleanup at the Herons Creek cemetery, and adjacent sawmill, 6 months after William went missing.

And we already know that Geoff Owen was in Kendall that morning around the time that William went missing. We also know that Geoff Owen worked on FGM's plumbing at one point, then later was back to measure up her deck, then later was back to work on the deck.

I am very curious about him .... and his possible associate, Frank Abbott.

(And, no, I don't believe we have heard that Frank Abbott was with Geoff Owen on the morning that William disappeared. We have only speculated about it.)

Yes coincidental - indeed - re timing of the search & Owen's testimony. Was thinking the same.

They were laying a new concrete slab @ the cemetery, as part of their upgrade - photos here
Herons Creek News - Herons Creek

An earlier article:
Our working group is blessed to have the assistance of some very generous and talented local tradespeople; people like Martin Hocking, Ron Morris and Geoff Owens, who help us stretch the funding considerably," Mr Parish explained.
CEMETERY WORKING BEE UPDATES 1st April 2015 - Herons Creek

 

[peekinandy]

I think I am missing the point being made about the Centre being open on Thurs mornings? GO was there on Fri morning between 10-11am, which includes the same timeframe in which W disappeared, so I'm wondering if there is also relevance to the centre being open on the Thursday? (Or did you just mean to type Friday instead?)

I thought the significance might be - if the centre is only open on a Thursday, what is he doing there on a Friday? Maybe it is open on Friday for invoices, I have no idea...

Was part of Owen's testimony closed?

 

[bearbear]

i hope little william isnt hidden anywhere in these nsw bushfire areas,
and they are getting very close to middle brother forest...
Fires Near Me

 

[SLouTh]

I thought the significance might be - if the centre is only open on a Thursday, what is he doing there on a Friday? Maybe it is open on Friday for invoices, I have no idea...

Was part of Owen's testimony closed?

Yes part of Owens testimony was heard under closed court..,......

I can find any data from 2014 as yet to conclude the Community Center was open on Friday???

the office in 2019 is open Mon - Friday ... but haven’t found anything to support the opening hours back then..... in 2014.... ??

 

[bearbear]

not sure if this june 2015 photo of herons creek cemetary cleanup volunteers and committee is of any interest?
History preserved and restored in Herons Creek: PHOTOS

 

[JLZ]

Yes part of Owens testimony was heard under closed court..,......

I can find any data from 2014 as yet to conclude the Community Center was open on Friday???

the office in 2019 is open Mon - Friday ... but haven’t found anything to support the opening hours back then..... in 2014.... ??

There would seem to be a distinction between the community centre being open for use by the community and the office being open for administrative purposes.

 

[peekinandy]

i hope little william isnt hidden anywhere in these nsw bushfire areas,
and they are getting very close to middle brother forest...
Fires Near Me

Geez! I hope not too. If he's alive - then I hope his captor/s will leave safely with him...

If he's not alive, maybe the forest will expose something awful?

 

[drsleuth]

Yes part of Owens testimony was heard under closed court..,......

I can find any data from 2014 as yet to conclude the Community Center was open on Friday???

the office in 2019 is open Mon - Friday ... but haven’t found anything to support the opening hours back then..... in 2014.... ??

None of GO's evidence was heard in closed court that I can re-call ( and we are only part way thru his evidence ) He was told by the coroner that he would have to return.............he was only in the witness stand for about 1/2 hr if that.

 

[peekinandy]

None of GO's evidence was heard in closed court that I can re-call ( and we are only part way thru his evidence ) He was told by the coroner that he would have to return.............he was only in the witness stand for about 1/2 hr if that.

Can you say drsleuth - whether Owen and FA hung out together? worked together? or both? from the info gathered so far - at the inquest?

 

[drsleuth]

Can you say drsleuth - whether Owen and FA hung out together? worked together? or both? from the info gathered so far - at the inquest?

From the brief evidence we heard, GO didn't speak to highly of FA. They may have once been friends??

Mr Craddock said to GO, " I think it's the case that you were familiar with Frank Abbott, lived in the same area in a caravan up the road ( Heron's Creek Rd )"

" Were you aware that he was also a bit of a jack of all trades, did same sort of jobs"

GO agreed.

Mr Craddock than went on to talk about if he ever would get FA to carry out work for him if he was unable to do the work himself ( he was unwell & awaiting a date for surgery at this time ) & GO said he had no confidence in FA " I didn't have any work already booked in & I wouldn't get FA to do it anyway"

GO said FA lived in a caravan 1/2km down the road & he got kicked out of there, than he lived in a caravan next door to my place ( ? 16 Misty Way )

He explained to the coroner that he was able to stay in the caravan if he "fixed it up"

He explained to the coroner the he ( GO ) didn't like the way that FA "fixed up the caravan " & that the work was " not to his standards"

The coroner directly asked him " Did you do work together?" He replied " No not really, nothing worth mentioning, put it that way"

GO drove a Mazda 626

I got the impression that GO no longer lived at Misty Way ( He couldn't initially remember the address that he lived at in 2014 ( 14 Misty Way Logans Crossing) when he first got on the stand.

 

[peekinandy]

From the brief evidence we heard, GO didn't speak to highly of FA. They may have once been friends??

Mr Craddock said to GO, " I think it's the case that you were familiar with Frank Abbott, lived in the same area in a caravan up the road ( Heron's Creek Rd )"

" Were you aware that he was also a bit of a jack of all trades, did same sort of jobs"

GO agreed.

Mr Craddock than went on to talk about if he ever would get FA to carry out work for him if he was unable to do the work himself ( he was unwell & awaiting a date for surgery at this time ) & GO said he had no confidence in FA " I didn't have any work already booked in & I wouldn't get FA to do it anyway"

GO said FA lived in a caravan 1/2km down the road & he got kicked out of there, than he lived in a caravan next door to my place ( ? 16 Misty Way )

He explained to the coroner that he was able to stay in the caravan if he "fixed it up"

He explained to the coroner the he ( GO ) didn't like the way that FA "fixed up the caravan " & that the work was " not to his standards"

The coroner directly asked him " Did you do work together?" He replied " No not really, nothing worth mentioning, put it that way"

GO drove a Mazda 626

I got the impression that GO no longer lived at Misty Way ( He couldn't initially remember the address that he lived at in 2014 ( 14 Misty Way Logans Crossing) when he first got on the stand.

Wow. Like geez! thank you so much Drsleuth... very helpful. I have heard that they lived nearby each other. Funny that GO can't remember where he lived, considering if you were called to an inquest you might want to re-think your living arrangement for back then. I would anyway!? Just plain old weird IMO...

 

[Warshawski]

i hope little william isnt hidden anywhere in these nsw bushfire areas,
and they are getting very close to middle brother forest...
Fires Near Me

[/QUOTE]

There is so much tragedy in these bushfires. We lost a colleague a few days ago . It seems in that case the Lord did Call on the Young ; conversely I also lost my dear Aunt - dementia impacted - but I choose to still believe in the Greater Good.

 

[Whàngarei]

Who is JW?

Judy Wilson

 

[stormbird]

There's a tweet by Lia Harris (quoted below, bolded by me) saying that when GO rang FGM's house he spoke to FGM's "other daughter". Here's the sequence of tweets leading up to it:

@LiaJHarris: "The court heard [GO] has contact with the foster grandmother about plumbing at her house earlier in 2014 before doing some work at her house." [Twitter link]

@LiaJHarris: "The court heard he was then contacted by the foster grandmother again to repair some decking on September 8 before attending the house to inspect the decking." [Twitter link]

[In reply to Lia's previous tweet] @luana71luana: "Lia can you tell us about the person answering the phone at the grandcarers home... Didn't [GO] say it was her daughter which answered... So which one as the female foster carer picked up her sister from airport... Sounds like she was already there." [Twitter link]

@LiaJHarris: "It was her other daughter who answered the phone, not William’s foster mother." [Twitter link]

Another Twitter member's replies to Lia's tweets say in part: "[GO] states he spoke to foster grandmothers daughter the day before William disappeared." BBM [Twitter link] and "He states it wasn’t [FFC he was talking to]" [Twitter link].

Here's what I'm wondering:
- When did GO make the phone call which was answered by Other Daughter? Monday 08 Sep 2014 (about the decking job)? Earlier in the year (about the plumbing job)? The day before William disappeared (Thu 11 Sep)?
- When did GO go to FGM's house to inspect the decking? Was the other daughter there?
- Who used the term "other daughter"? Was it just a description used by Lia, or did GO say those words in his evidence (which would mean he knew there was more than one daughter in FGM's family)? Did he specifically say in his evidence that the person he was talking to "wasn't FFC"?
- Was the court told why Other Daughter answered FGM's phone or how long she was at the house?

GO appeared at the inquest in Taree on Friday 23 August 2019. In case anyone hasn't seen this, Lia's tweets about his testimony were relayed to WebSleuths by UndiscoveredTruth in thread 44, starting at post #341. For each of those WebSleuths posts you can go to the quoted tweet on Twitter (where replies to that tweet are then visible) by clicking on the timestamp after the Twitter user's name in the WebSleuths post e.g. if it says @LiaJHarris 1m1 minute ago, click on the "1m1 minute ago".

 

[JLZ]

From the brief evidence we heard, GO didn't speak to highly of FA. They may have once been friends??

Mr Craddock said to GO, " I think it's the case that you were familiar with Frank Abbott, lived in the same area in a caravan up the road ( Heron's Creek Rd )"

" Were you aware that he was also a bit of a jack of all trades, did same sort of jobs"

GO agreed.

Mr Craddock than went on to talk about if he ever would get FA to carry out work for him if he was unable to do the work himself ( he was unwell & awaiting a date for surgery at this time ) & GO said he had no confidence in FA " I didn't have any work already booked in & I wouldn't get FA to do it anyway"

GO said FA lived in a caravan 1/2km down the road & he got kicked out of there, than he lived in a caravan next door to my place ( ? 16 Misty Way )

He explained to the coroner that he was able to stay in the caravan if he "fixed it up"

He explained to the coroner the he ( GO ) didn't like the way that FA "fixed up the caravan " & that the work was " not to his standards"

The coroner directly asked him " Did you do work together?" He replied " No not really, nothing worth mentioning, put it that way"

GO drove a Mazda 626

I got the impression that GO no longer lived at Misty Way ( He couldn't initially remember the address that he lived at in 2014 ( 14 Misty Way Logans Crossing) when he first got on the stand.

So GO was unwell awaiting surgery at this time, to the extent that he hadn't booked in any work, and yet he reattended FGM's place to scope work on the decking? How soon would he have been able to do the work had not William disappeared? Was he hoping to do it before or after surgery (which happened when?)

I'm seeing a possible additional motive for FA here, as a business competitor to GO. That's if he had any knowledge of the upcoming job.

Is FA a large man with sandy hair?

 

[JLZ]

I wonder if it might have been a condition of the property sale that improvements be made to the decking. In which case more people would have known about the potential job.

 

[drsleuth]

There's a tweet by Lia Harris (quoted below, bolded by me) saying that when GO rang FGM's house he spoke to FGM's "other daughter". Here's the sequence of tweets leading up to it:

@LiaJHarris: "The court heard [GO] has contact with the foster grandmother about plumbing at her house earlier in 2014 before doing some work at her house." [Twitter link]

@LiaJHarris: "The court heard he was then contacted by the foster grandmother again to repair some decking on September 8 before attending the house to inspect the decking." [Twitter link]

[In reply to Lia's previous tweet] @luana71luana: "Lia can you tell us about the person answering the phone at the grandcarers home... Didn't [GO] say it was her daughter which answered... So which one as the female foster carer picked up her sister from airport... Sounds like she was already there." [Twitter link]

@LiaJHarris: "It was her other daughter who answered the phone, not William’s foster mother." [Twitter link]

Another Twitter member's replies to Lia's tweets say in part: "[GO] states he spoke to foster grandmothers daughter the day before William disappeared." BBM [Twitter link] and "He states it wasn’t [FFC he was talking to]" [Twitter link].

Here's what I'm wondering:
- When did GO make the phone call which was answered by Other Daughter? Monday 08 Sep 2014 (about the decking job)? Earlier in the year (about the plumbing job)? The day before William disappeared (Thu 11 Sep)?
- When did GO go to FGM's house to inspect the decking? Was the other daughter there?
- Who used the term "other daughter"? Was it just a description used by Lia, or did GO say those words in his evidence (which would mean he knew there was more than one daughter in FGM's family)? Did he specifically say in his evidence that the person he was talking to "wasn't FFC"?
- Was the court told why Other Daughter answered FGM's phone or how long she was at the house?

GO appeared at the inquest in Taree on Friday 23 August 2019. In case anyone hasn't seen this, Lia's tweets about his testimony were relayed to WebSleuths by UndiscoveredTruth in thread 44, starting at post #341. For each of those WebSleuths posts you can go to the quoted tweet on Twitter (where replies to that tweet are then visible) by clicking on the timestamp after the Twitter user's name in the WebSleuths post e.g. if it says @LiaJHarris 1m1 minute ago, click on the "1m1 minute ago".

Stormbird I have put my answers in red to your questions .

Here's what I'm wondering:
- When did GO make the phone call which was answered by Other Daughter? Monday 08 Sep 2014 (about the decking job)? Earlier in the year (about the plumbing job)? The day before William disappeared (Thu 11 Sep)? 11th september 2014

- When did GO go to FGM's house to inspect the decking? Was the other daughter there? 8th sep 2104. FGM only person there.

- Who used the term "other daughter"? Was it just a description used by Lia, or did GO say those words in his evidence (which would mean he knew there was more than one daughter in FGM's family)? Did he specifically say in his evidence that the person he was talking to "wasn't FFC"? This is what I have in my notes "spoke to female who said she was the daughter, told police was a different daughter, wasn't WT's FFC ". This is what Mr Craddock put to GO I think.


- Was the court told why Other Daughter answered FGM's phone or how long she was at the house?
Nope

 

[drsleuth]

So GO was unwell awaiting surgery at this time, to the extent that he hadn't booked in any work, and yet he reattended FGM's place to scope work on the decking? How soon would he have been able to do the work had not William disappeared? Was he hoping to do it before or after surgery (which happened when?)

I'm seeing a possible additional motive for FA here, as a business competitor to GO. That's if he had any knowledge of the upcoming job.

Is FA a large man with sandy hair?

My answers are in red JLZ

So GO was unwell awaiting surgery at this time, to the extent that he hadn't booked in any work, and yet he reattended FGM's place to scope work on the decking? How soon would he have been able to do the work had not William disappeared? Was he hoping to do it before or after surgery (which happened when?) GO said he could do the work on the deck on the 16/9/14, FGM was fine with that.
He was waiting on a call from the hospital for surgery ( prostate cancer ) . He went to a cancer support meeting @ Port Macquarie hospital @ 5pm on the 11/9/2014

He was admitted to hospital on the 18/9/2014 , was in hospital for 6 days