GUILTY NJ - Detective Joseph Seals, slain, 5 others killed including 2 suspects, Jersey City, 9 Dec 2019
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There was an orthodox Jew that was slashed, stabbed and beaten by two people back on November 20th, they haven't caught the attackers. It was in Monsey, NJ, which is about a 45 minute drive away from this shooting. Trying to find other attacks on Jews in the vicinity, and sadly there are a few to many to establish clear patterns.
There was an orthodox Jew that was slashed, stabbed and beaten by two people back on November 20th, they haven't caught the attackers. It was in Monsey, NJ, which is about a 45 minute drive away from this shooting. Trying to find other attacks on Jews in the vicinity, and sadly there are a few to many to establish clear patterns.
MassGuy
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Here’s an article about the murder that the deceased police officer may have been investigating when he approached the suspects.
Michael Rumberger: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com
Michael Rumberger: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com
I am counting 8 short (1-3 minutes) videos at this DM article - WARNING some contain lots of gunfire. TV news has used terms like 'hail of gunfire' and Chief Kelly stated in the presser '100s of rounds'. Apparently the suspects shot at any passersby, at police, and across the street at the Sacred Heart School where over 200 children PK-8 were on lockdown (photos at link).
They have updated the article with photos of deceased Det Seals with his family, kids inside that school. DM article is also updated that both suspects are MALE, although the link wording below is still incorrect with "female", and they are no longer calling them juveniles either. The other two wounded officers are Ray Sanchez and Mariela Fernandez who have both been released from the hospital (maybe that's where the male & female confusion started, 2 wounded officers vs 2 suspects?)
Jersey City gun battle: male and female shooters kill policeman | Daily Mail Online
They have updated the article with photos of deceased Det Seals with his family, kids inside that school. DM article is also updated that both suspects are MALE, although the link wording below is still incorrect with "female", and they are no longer calling them juveniles either. The other two wounded officers are Ray Sanchez and Mariela Fernandez who have both been released from the hospital (maybe that's where the male & female confusion started, 2 wounded officers vs 2 suspects?)
Jersey City gun battle: male and female shooters kill policeman | Daily Mail Online
NJSleuth91
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"NBC New York reported that, according to law enforcement sources, it believed that “Seals saw a U-Haul truck possibly linked to a murder from over the weekend in Bayonne. As he approached the truck, one of the suspects got out of the car and shot him.”
Added NBC: “It was not immediately known why or how the U-Haul truck that Det. Seals approached was linked to the death of livery driver Michael Rumberger.”"
"Scanner transmissions indicated that the suspects were clad all in black and possibly wearing trench coats or rain coats."
Yeah, although it was raining today, that's definitely not typical gang related shooting attire. TBH it's a bit of a 90s throwback even for mass shooter attire...so are the pipe bombs....
kaen
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The stabbing in Monsey, NY is referenced in this article:
Monsey: Stabbing of man walking to morning prayers shakes community: 'I don't feel safe'
kaen
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I am not sure that this incident is linked to what happened in JC, NJ yesterday.
But, in Monsey and many enclaves in Rockland NY have had issues about control and funding of the local public schools. Elections have been tense and arrests have been made in other areas (Ramapo) in relation to funding (older but good article here: A Heavy Blow to One of America's Most Controversial School Boards).
Although I did read that there are some issues between the newer local ultra-orthodox community and long standing members of the Jersey City community relating to power, education, etc. It seems that the impact of larger community immigration may be cause for issues. From 2017:Uneasy Welcome as Ultra-Orthodox Jews Extend Beyond New York Different community issues from 2016: Race, religion, corruption and politics: A guide to the crisis in Lakewood
I have family in some of these communities and have heard the complaints first hand.
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NJSleuth91
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Map I made of the locations (click to enlarge). As you can see Eastern Parkway, where a home was searched, is very close to the cemetery, and both are also fairly close to the kosher supermarket.
GordianKnot
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3 victims named in Jersey City shooting attack, mayor says mkt. targeted
SABBM:
An eyewitness has confirmed that two of the civilians murdered in Tuesday's Jersey City shooting attack are members of the local Chassidic community: Leah Minda Ferencz, who owned the store with her husband, and Moshe Deutsch, 24, Chabad.org reported. A third victim was identified earlier as veteran police officer Joe Seals, father of five, by the mayor of Jersey City, Steven Fulop.
The attack is now being investigated as a hate crime. According to Fulop, those who opened fire in a Jewish supermarket on Tuesday "targeted the location they attacked."
___________________
Any time LE and/or MSM is reluctant to release names of shooters, my antenna goes up.
Hope names aren't being withheld due to an overabundance of political correctness.
They were certainly quick to come out and say it didn't appear to be a hate crime.
As it happens, they were a little too quick to say it.
JMO.
SABBM:
An eyewitness has confirmed that two of the civilians murdered in Tuesday's Jersey City shooting attack are members of the local Chassidic community: Leah Minda Ferencz, who owned the store with her husband, and Moshe Deutsch, 24, Chabad.org reported. A third victim was identified earlier as veteran police officer Joe Seals, father of five, by the mayor of Jersey City, Steven Fulop.
The attack is now being investigated as a hate crime. According to Fulop, those who opened fire in a Jewish supermarket on Tuesday "targeted the location they attacked."
___________________
Any time LE and/or MSM is reluctant to release names of shooters, my antenna goes up.
Hope names aren't being withheld due to an overabundance of political correctness.
They were certainly quick to come out and say it didn't appear to be a hate crime.
As it happens, they were a little too quick to say it.
JMO.
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NJSleuth91
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Given the area where it happened, I had the exact same thought.
NJSleuth91
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Again given the area, my current guess is possibly terror related? Not part of an official group but radicalized through the internet kind of thing. These two may have been relatives, similar to the Tsarnaevs. It's possible they may have been students (either current or dropped out) at one of the local colleges -- there are a few nearby.
Not sure how the other guy fits into this, could be due to a personal grievance, or they could have killed him opportunistically for something he had in preparation for the spree.
The store where it happened is tiny, though. Not really what you would think of as a terror target. It's possible the specific choice of target was based on a personal grievance but with a hate crime aspect to it.
Not sure how the other guy fits into this, could be due to a personal grievance, or they could have killed him opportunistically for something he had in preparation for the spree.
The store where it happened is tiny, though. Not really what you would think of as a terror target. It's possible the specific choice of target was based on a personal grievance but with a hate crime aspect to it.
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jaejae
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Here is BBC news report about the case:
Deadly gun battle erupts in Jersey City
A Sky News report:
Jewish supermarket 'targeted' in New Jersey gun battle that left six dead
Deadly gun battle erupts in Jersey City
A Sky News report:
Jewish supermarket 'targeted' in New Jersey gun battle that left six dead
Man Found Beaten To Death In Car Trunk In Bayonne
BAYONNE, NJ — A 34-year-old Jersey City man was found beaten to death in the trunk of a car in Bayonne Saturday night, Dec. 7, according to the office of the Hudson County Prosecutor, Esther Suarez.
The man was later identified as Michael Rumberger, 34, of Jersey City. He was found to have trauma to his head and was pronounced dead at the scene at approximately 11:00 p.m.
Jersey City Shooting: Suspect Published Anti-Semitic Posts, Official Says
"Investigators in the firefight that left six people dead at a cemetery and kosher market believe the attack was motivated by anti-Semitic and anti-police sentiments, an official said.
A suspect had published anti-Semitic and anti-police posts online and officials say camera footage indicates a kosher market was targeted."
New Jersey shooting: Gunmen target Jewish grocery store, 6 dead | DW | 11.12.2019
"Gunmen deliberately targeted a kosher supermarket in a deadly shootout with police that killed six people, a US mayor announced on Wednesday.
The two gunmen attacked the local kosher market in Jersey City, New Jersey, on Tuesday. One police officer and three civilians, in addition to the gunmen, were killed in the gun battle.
Police were on high alert in Jewish neighborhoods in the New York metropolitan area after the hourslong shootout with police."
"Tonight NYPD assets are being deployed to protect key locations in the Jewish community. Tomorrow we will announce
additional measures," he said. "This tragically confirms that a growing pattern of violent anti-Semitism has now turned into a crisis for our nation. And now this threat has reached the doorstep of New York City."
"Investigators in the firefight that left six people dead at a cemetery and kosher market believe the attack was motivated by anti-Semitic and anti-police sentiments, an official said.
A suspect had published anti-Semitic and anti-police posts online and officials say camera footage indicates a kosher market was targeted."
New Jersey shooting: Gunmen target Jewish grocery store, 6 dead | DW | 11.12.2019
"Gunmen deliberately targeted a kosher supermarket in a deadly shootout with police that killed six people, a US mayor announced on Wednesday.
The two gunmen attacked the local kosher market in Jersey City, New Jersey, on Tuesday. One police officer and three civilians, in addition to the gunmen, were killed in the gun battle.
Police were on high alert in Jewish neighborhoods in the New York metropolitan area after the hourslong shootout with police."
"Tonight NYPD assets are being deployed to protect key locations in the Jewish community. Tomorrow we will announce
additional measures," he said. "This tragically confirms that a growing pattern of violent anti-Semitism has now turned into a crisis for our nation. And now this threat has reached the doorstep of New York City."
rbbm.
Jersey City suspects 'targeted' kosher store where 3 died, officials say
"Jersey City Mayor Steven Fulop said at a news conference on Wednesday morning that security footage from the Tuesday incident showed the shooters traveling slowly through the streets in a U-Haul van, stopping outside the store armed with long guns and immediately opening fire.
"There were multiple other people on the streets," Public Safety Director James Shea said. "There were many other targets available to them that they bypassed to attack that place. So it was, clearly, that was their target, and they intended to harm people inside there."
Four law enforcement sources familiar with the case identified the suspects as David Anderson and Francine Graham."
Francine Graham: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com
"The description was “black male and a black female” wearing all black clothing, possibly with rain or trenchcoats."
"Armed with high-powered rifles, the two suspects were described on scanner transmissions as wearing all black and possibly clad in trench or raincoats. There were conflicting reports early on about whether they were two men or a male and a female. The latter report first came over the scanner, but Kelly later said they were “preliminarily” believed to be two males. Authorities later found an inert pipe bomb in a U-Haul truck they were driving.
The Jewish media named two of the victims as Leah Ferencz, who co-owned the grocery with her husband, and Moshe Deutsch. Authorities have not yet released their names. Chabad.org talked to a survivor who was in the store. “I was standing by the salad bar in the grocery and I heard three shots, bullets shattered the glass of the grocery,” he told Chabad. “Suddenly I saw two people come in, with long black raincoats and long guns. They tried to point the gun at me, I pushed it away and ran away.” Read more about Leah and the JC Kosher Supermarket where the standoff occurred here.
When officers responded, they were “immediately engaged by high-power rifle fire,” Kelly said. At the same time, they learned an officer, later identified as Detective Joseph Seals, a Cease-Fire unit officer known for removing guns off the streets, “was down in another part of the city.”
Jersey City suspects 'targeted' kosher store where 3 died, officials say
"Jersey City Mayor Steven Fulop said at a news conference on Wednesday morning that security footage from the Tuesday incident showed the shooters traveling slowly through the streets in a U-Haul van, stopping outside the store armed with long guns and immediately opening fire.
"There were multiple other people on the streets," Public Safety Director James Shea said. "There were many other targets available to them that they bypassed to attack that place. So it was, clearly, that was their target, and they intended to harm people inside there."
Four law enforcement sources familiar with the case identified the suspects as David Anderson and Francine Graham."
Francine Graham: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com
"The description was “black male and a black female” wearing all black clothing, possibly with rain or trenchcoats."
"Armed with high-powered rifles, the two suspects were described on scanner transmissions as wearing all black and possibly clad in trench or raincoats. There were conflicting reports early on about whether they were two men or a male and a female. The latter report first came over the scanner, but Kelly later said they were “preliminarily” believed to be two males. Authorities later found an inert pipe bomb in a U-Haul truck they were driving.
The Jewish media named two of the victims as Leah Ferencz, who co-owned the grocery with her husband, and Moshe Deutsch. Authorities have not yet released their names. Chabad.org talked to a survivor who was in the store. “I was standing by the salad bar in the grocery and I heard three shots, bullets shattered the glass of the grocery,” he told Chabad. “Suddenly I saw two people come in, with long black raincoats and long guns. They tried to point the gun at me, I pushed it away and ran away.” Read more about Leah and the JC Kosher Supermarket where the standoff occurred here.
When officers responded, they were “immediately engaged by high-power rifle fire,” Kelly said. At the same time, they learned an officer, later identified as Detective Joseph Seals, a Cease-Fire unit officer known for removing guns off the streets, “was down in another part of the city.”
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SUSPECTS IDENTIFIED: Allegedly Members of “Black Hebrew Israelite Movement” | Yeshiva World News
"Three sources say Anderson was a one-time follower of the group, the Black Hebrew Israelite movement. There was a note with religious writings in the U-Haul he and Graham allegedly drove to the scene.
Officials also said there were online postings connected to Anderson’s social page with anti-police and anti-Jewish writings. Investigators are looking to see if Anderson himself posted that material."
Black Hebrew Israelites in the State of Israel
"The Black Hebrew Israelites are a fascinating group to study in the context of religion, race, Jewish and African American relations, and Israel. The Black Hebrews was founded in 1892 by William Saunders Crowdy, who claims to be a prophet. The core belief of the Black Hebrews is that Black Americans, and all those descended from Africa, are God’s true Chosen People. They believe that those who identify as Jews today are imposters, although they do not identify as Jews or even as a religion, but instead as a nation (Weisbord 1975). Their places of worship are called churches, and they primarily use Christian text as the foundation for their teachings. The Black Hebrew Israelites are considered a hate group in America due to the use of violence and harassment as a means to spread their messages."
rbbm.
"Three sources say Anderson was a one-time follower of the group, the Black Hebrew Israelite movement. There was a note with religious writings in the U-Haul he and Graham allegedly drove to the scene.
Officials also said there were online postings connected to Anderson’s social page with anti-police and anti-Jewish writings. Investigators are looking to see if Anderson himself posted that material."
Black Hebrew Israelites in the State of Israel
"The Black Hebrew Israelites are a fascinating group to study in the context of religion, race, Jewish and African American relations, and Israel. The Black Hebrews was founded in 1892 by William Saunders Crowdy, who claims to be a prophet. The core belief of the Black Hebrews is that Black Americans, and all those descended from Africa, are God’s true Chosen People. They believe that those who identify as Jews today are imposters, although they do not identify as Jews or even as a religion, but instead as a nation (Weisbord 1975). Their places of worship are called churches, and they primarily use Christian text as the foundation for their teachings. The Black Hebrew Israelites are considered a hate group in America due to the use of violence and harassment as a means to spread their messages."
rbbm.
Elley Mae
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Jersey City shooting suspect published anti-Semitic posts online, report claims; officials say kosher market 'targeted'
Jersey City shooting suspect published anti-Semitic posts online, report claims; officials say kosher market 'targeted'
......
Ok, so when when they be named and photos shown.
Jersey City shooting suspect published anti-Semitic posts online, report claims; officials say kosher market 'targeted'
......
Ok, so when when they be named and photos shown.
NJSleuth91
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Well that explains the initial "it wasn't a hate crime" snap judgment....
What a random target for an attack though, especially with that much weaponry. I still wonder if the choice of target was due to a personal grievance against a person there. Or if they had a larger target in mind but recalculated after being interrupted by the cop.
Also interested to know how old they are. Sounds like probably quite a bit older than initially reported.
What a random target for an attack though, especially with that much weaponry. I still wonder if the choice of target was due to a personal grievance against a person there. Or if they had a larger target in mind but recalculated after being interrupted by the cop.
Also interested to know how old they are. Sounds like probably quite a bit older than initially reported.
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