GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #72

[Utsarah]

NuttMegg, I am probably starting it tonight. It’s available on Kindle Unlimited if anyone else has a subscription.

 

[Pasasana]

Is anyone else reading the Derhally book? I just finished it and am going to re-read the last half again tonight. I don't have the background in psychology to "review" it, I started flagging insightful parts on my kindle to share or discuss with the board, but now I have too many highlighted. Very well written.

I just started it.

 

[scdiv]

What happened to Mama Watts book, was there actually a book? I'm getting confused between these books.

 

[NuttMegg]

What happened to Mama Watts book, was there actually a book? I'm getting confused between these books.

No, it hasn't been published yet, the parts spread around, ie the first 5 chapters, were leaked. There was the letters from cw book by Cadle. Then there is this one, by Derhally, a real book, written by a professional psychologist. Mama Watts book well there are just a lot of rumors.
There are some reviews on the Amazon page that give an idea what this new book addresses. It's called "My Daddy is my hero", by Derhally. It came out Monday.

 

[WhatDidYouDo]

I think the plan he concocted while he was in NC was that he was going to disappear/leave after he got rid of SW & the babies. That's what I think that note is really about.

It annoys me to no end that Shannan's name was disparaged by something Tammy suggested that the evil one then ran with but at the same time I have to remember that they were trying to locate everyone at that point. They didn't have proof yet that there was a murder. They had to try whatever they could. Im sure she will never put something like that out there again in a future interrogation. I'm going to watch that Oxygen show tonight (assuming its on my hulu) and I think someone upthread mentioned she's very remorseful for that.

‘I had to put the girls in the tanks so they wouldn’t get up the second time’: SHOCK confession from killer dad Chris Watts, who now says he planned family murder, and had earlier tried to kill his daughters: Report

“August 12th when I finished putting the girls to bed, I walked away and said ‘That’s the last time I’m going to be tucking my babies in,'” Watts reportedly said. “I knew what was going to happen the day before and I did nothing to stop it!’ he wrote.
​

I actually believe he knew the particular day ahead of time but just didn't count on the flight delay and the wellness check.

It is just my uneducated opinion that if the police had used a simple process of elimination to determine that his family could have only left through the garage, they could have detained CW briefly while reviewing the rest of the security footage from that morning. Once they deduced that the only way his family could have left was in his truck, he should have been arrested, IMO.

I think if he had been confronted with the fact that they knew had to have put them in the truck, his confession that day would have matched what he gave them at the prison if Tammy hadn't given him the idea to blame Shanann.

His original plan was to claim Shanann disappeared with the girls after threatening that he would never see them again when he asked for the separation. Of course he transitioned that into the source of his so-called rage in the prison interview.

I'll bet he was shocked when they didn't arrest him during the wellness check and that's why he was smirking in those porch interviews. Unfortunately for him, even Sandi Rzucek remembered his truck GPS and told LE.

No, he wouldn't have told the truth about his possible plan to dispose of her car, but if they had arrested him, seized his phones, protected the crime scene, etc, I believe we would have known for certain one way or the other if there was an accomplice since it wasn't until the next day that NK instructed him to delete everything.

 

[Chloe_ee]

I watched the “Confessions” show today .. it’s really *really* upsetting ... just a warning Watch when alone and with plenty of tissues .. I don’t know what I was thinking watching it - I was unprepared for the sorrow you will feel for Shannan and the girls.

I thank God for Shannan’s friend who was on her missing so quickly - which clearly CW NEVER expected. Watching his truck pull up and the officers are already at his house just hours after what he had done. He must have been beyond panicked and also LIVID that he wasn’t going to get away with it. Obviously his seething hatred and rage at SW and their kids was constantly bubbling under his surface and oh it blew .. IMHO he just hated them all and wanted them gone. And that was exactly what he did .. made them gone.

Thankful for the neighbor with the cameras - saying CW is acting strangely.

I do hate that CW picked up the story that SW killed the girls from Tammy (the investigator), and agree with PP she will likely not use that particular interrogation technique again. It yielded the confession but .. ugh...

I also didn’t know the girls were alive until CW got to the tanks... that was unexpected and deeply upsetting. Jesus leave them anywhere..

Whenever I think about this case I always just say to myself if SW stayed in North Carolina - she was gone for six weeks

 

[riolove77]

I disagree with folks holding it against Tammy for using that interrogation technique. This is by no means a novel interrogation tactic. Cops use this ALL the time, because (as we saw here), when a defendant thinks perhaps the blame is being shifted to the deceased victim, they are more likely to let down their guard and start talking. It pays off - you get the info you need and you lock down your suspect. They did that here and they got their convictions on all counts.

CW is NOT the first suspect to take the bait and run with it. It doesn't work and in this case, it didn't with the majority of the American people either. There are two points here that make this particular situation unique: one, CW's family is particularly vile and VERY outspoken about it, and two, SW and CW's lives were very openly broadcast for everyone to see on social media, and the small portion of the population that wanted to hate her found a way to do so via her personality and social presence.

My point is that the Shanann haters would've hated Shanann whether Tammy used that interrogation tactic or not.

 

[NuttMegg]

I disagree with folks holding it against Tammy for using that interrogation technique. This is by no means a novel interrogation tactic. Cops use this ALL the time, because (as we saw here), when a defendant thinks perhaps the blame is being shifted to the deceased victim, they are more likely to let down their guard and start talking. It pays off - you get the info you need and you lock down your suspect. They did that here and they got their convictions on all counts.

CW is NOT the first suspect to take the bait and run with it. It doesn't work and in this case, it didn't with the majority of the American people either. There are two points here that make this particular situation unique: one, CW's family is particularly vile and VERY outspoken about it, and two, SW and CW's lives were very openly broadcast for everyone to see on social media, and the small portion of the population that wanted to hate her found a way to do so via her personality and social presence.

My point is that the Shanann haters would've hated Shanann whether Tammy used that interrogation tactic or not.

@riolove77 Is it pretty unusual for the general public to even find out that the technique was used? If it weren't for the release of all the discovery/interviews etc it would have remained as though he thought it up all by himself, (ie blaming SW) per the charging docs?

 

[Chloe_ee]

@riolove77 Is it pretty unusual for the general public to even find out that the technique was used? If it weren't for the release of all the discovery/interviews etc it would have remained as though he thought it up all by himself, (ie blaming SW) per the charging docs?

I had wondered how he came up with it in real time back when the case was unfolding. I couldn’t even fathom how he came up with oh - she killed the girls - so I killed her. It was beyond comprehension. But he was a trapped rat and that was the story he went with at first.

I do wonder what he told his dad tho before the SW killed the girls so I killed her story. Because Dad doesn’t seem like he knew where CW was going in that interrogation room.

I don’t hold it against Tammy for using her techniques to get a confession and locate the bodies, I just hate anyone believing SW would have hurt her kids. But you are right. Those that hated her like CW family would believe it regardless.

I’m always shocked by Ronnie Watt’s in the interrogation room - not caring in the least that his grandchildren and daughter-in-law were dead. Just nothing.

With Jennifer Dulos still missing - and hopes of a Body recovery or ever finding out what happened to her - or her manner of death possibly gone - due to time and never finding her - it’s satisfying that Chris Watts confessed even with the initial victim blaming. He’s behind bars forever.

 

[DaisyKenny]

I just wanted to point out that they had already located the bedsheet at CERVI 319 and the fresh earth movement by the time he was given the idea to blame Shanann. Yes, they did learn that Cece was in the other tank from the one Bella's hair was found on.

The idea to blame Shanann and his false confession wasn't what led to the plea deal. If anything it gave him a potential defense. Fortunately, even he wasn't stupid enough to think that jurors would buy it.

I strongly believe that LE let Shanann's family and friends let down in at least three ways. The first being that should have easily been able to determine (during the wellness check) that his family could have only left the house in his truck. The second being that since the crime scene and his demeanor didn't indicate a crime of passion, but rather premeditation, they should have considered what he planned to do with her car and if he would have needed an accomplice to dispose of it. Lastly, IMO they shouldn't have immediately closed their investigation once he pleaded guilty.

 

[scdiv]

I disagree with folks holding it against Tammy for using that interrogation technique. This is by no means a novel interrogation tactic. Cops use this ALL the time, because (as we saw here), when a defendant thinks perhaps the blame is being shifted to the deceased victim, they are more likely to let down their guard and start talking. It pays off - you get the info you need and you lock down your suspect. They did that here and they got their convictions on all counts.

CW is NOT the first suspect to take the bait and run with it. It doesn't work and in this case, it didn't with the majority of the American people either. There are two points here that make this particular situation unique: one, CW's family is particularly vile and VERY outspoken about it, and two, SW and CW's lives were very openly broadcast for everyone to see on social media, and the small portion of the population that wanted to hate her found a way to do so via her personality and social presence.

My point is that the Shanann haters would've hated Shanann whether Tammy used that interrogation tactic or not.

100% this... totally common technique for investigators to give the defendant an "out." Even if investigators have no evidence of what they are conveniently suggesting to the defendant. They sympathize with the suspect. Say they could even understand why he did it. Was it self-defense? Did that awful victim start it and he had no choice? Was he just trying to protect his family? Did he lose his cool in one awful second? Did the knife accidentally slip? Whatever. If they can just convince the defendant to tell just one more lie, it would instantly do away with the "they went missing" or "masked men" or whoever or whatever charade the defendant is trying to blame his crime on.

And then the investigators give a "reward." They thank the defendant for coming clean, for being so honest and telling the truth and doing such a hard thing. And then.... they can really get to work. "But here's the thing...." And start hammering away at the details and poking holes in the story.

I don't think Tammy was remorseful or should be for using that strategy, or that any LE will stop doing that in the future. It's unfortunate that CW is such trash to smear his innocent victim, but Tammy's goal was to get a confession in order to get a conviction. And her style was genius. A relaxed style that prompted CW to do the LAST thing he should do - talk. Even if what came out of his mouth wasn't the full story, but that can be just as good. Sometimes a provable lie is as good as the truth.

And Tammy did ask CW, "are you SURE this story is what you want to go with - you're okay with this out there and that the public thinking Shanann did this to your children??" CW is the only one to blame. I think the investigator's tactics were smart and solid. It's unfortunate and vile that the narrative got out there. CW's family definitely contributed to that. The pathetic part was CW dropped that story pretty fast. It was only in the initial confession that got released. Never pursued. Never argued by his attorneys. And his horrible mother kept insisting on it and circulating that story, even when CW pleaded guilty. And these weird bloggers and groupies kept it alive. In no normal universe would most people even consider that to be a viable story. Even his own attorneys didn't put that forward.

 

[CeeCeeCat]

I have just watched the Criminal Confessions documentary. I didn’t think I could admire Agent Tammy Lee more than I did before seeing the show, but I come away from it with even more regard for her, for Detective Baumhover (sp?) and for Graham Coder. They are all heroes in my mind. Nate came across really well, I loved that he kept stressing how much Shan’ann loved her girls, lived for her family.
I am even more convinced that Pa Watts knew about the murders before he walked into the interview room to sit with CW. The lack of emotion was truly chilling - these were your grandchildren, you cold-hearted dolt. There was no shock, no sadness, no real emotion. Ugh.
And oh my heart, towards the end of the documentary, when Bella and Celeste hugged Shan’ann - then Bella bent down and said she wanted to ‘hug the baby’...
That CW saw fit to snuff out four beautiful lives will forever be beyond my understanding. He is exactly where he needs to be for now...I consider his prison sentence merely a waiting room for his ultimate punishment, deep in the depths of Hell.

 

[PommyMommy]

I disagree with folks holding it against Tammy for using that interrogation technique. This is by no means a novel interrogation tactic. Cops use this ALL the time, because (as we saw here), when a defendant thinks perhaps the blame is being shifted to the deceased victim, they are more likely to let down their guard and start talking. It pays off - you get the info you need and you lock down your suspect. They did that here and they got their convictions on all counts.

CW is NOT the first suspect to take the bait and run with it. It doesn't work and in this case, it didn't with the majority of the American people either. There are two points here that make this particular situation unique: one, CW's family is particularly vile and VERY outspoken about it, and two, SW and CW's lives were very openly broadcast for everyone to see on social media, and the small portion of the population that wanted to hate her found a way to do so via her personality and social presence.

My point is that the Shanann haters would've hated Shanann whether Tammy used that interrogation tactic or not.

Bravo. And, thank you.

 

[Colorado303]

100% this... totally common technique for investigators to give the defendant an "out." Even if investigators have no evidence of what they are conveniently suggesting to the defendant. They sympathize with the suspect. Say they could even understand why he did it. Was it self-defense? Did that awful victim start it and he had no choice? Was he just trying to protect his family? Did he lose his cool in one awful second? Did the knife accidentally slip? Whatever. If they can just convince the defendant to tell just one more lie, it would instantly do away with the "they went missing" or "masked men" or whoever or whatever charade the defendant is trying to blame his crime on.

And then the investigators give a "reward." They thank the defendant for coming clean, for being so honest and telling the truth and doing such a hard thing. And then.... they can really get to work. "But here's the thing...." And start hammering away at the details and poking holes in the story.

I don't think Tammy was remorseful or should be for using that strategy, or that any LE will stop doing that in the future. It's unfortunate that CW is such trash to smear his innocent victim, but Tammy's goal was to get a confession in order to get a conviction. And her style was genius. A relaxed style that prompted CW to do the LAST thing he should do - talk. Even if what came out of his mouth wasn't the full story, but that can be just as good. Sometimes a provable lie is as good as the truth.

And Tammy did ask CW, "are you SURE this story is what you want to go with - you're okay with this out there and that the public thinking Shanann did this to your children??" CW is the only one to blame. I think the investigator's tactics were smart and solid. It's unfortunate and vile that the narrative got out there. CW's family definitely contributed to that. The pathetic part was CW dropped that story pretty fast. It was only in the initial confession that got released. Never pursued. Never argued by his attorneys. And his horrible mother kept insisting on it and circulating that story, even when CW pleaded guilty. And these weird bloggers and groupies kept it alive. In no normal universe would most people even consider that to be a viable story. Even his own attorneys didn't put that forward.

Importantly, when Tammy suggested perhaps SW had done something that made Chris disappear her there were still two little girls who had been missing for 48 hours. It was pretty clear Shanann was dead but we all held out hope CW had simply hidden the girls. There were no signs of foul play and we honestly believed he loved the girls very much. He may have hurt the girls too but for many who knew them it was equally if not more likely he killed SW so he could have the girls all to himself.

Tammy did what she needed to to save the girls if there was still time. Her priorities were exactly where they should have been IMO. I completely agree w/posters pointing out SW’s name would have gotten dragged through the mud anyway. But even if not, as awful as it was I would rather have had that happen than miss even the slimmest chance to find and save the girls.

 

[Satchie]

He wanted his family gone and that's it.

This is what I've come to believe about these, all too common, cases. I don't think he hated his wife and children, he was utterly indifferent to them. I think he was completely consumed with wanting out of his marriage and into a brand new life with the new woman. That's common enough, but unlike most people, he was psychopathic at that moment and couldn't see his family with any empathy whatever, they were merely obstacles to getting what he wanted, the way a soldier sees 'the enemy' as an obstacle to winning whatever the war is about.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Judge orders Chris Watts to pay $6M settlement to slain wife's family :: WRAL.com

 

[AgeofAquaruis]

I disagree with folks holding it against Tammy for using that interrogation technique. This is by no means a novel interrogation tactic. Cops use this ALL the time, because (as we saw here), when a defendant thinks perhaps the blame is being shifted to the deceased victim, they are more likely to let down their guard and start talking. It pays off - you get the info you need and you lock down your suspect. They did that here and they got their convictions on all counts.

CW is NOT the first suspect to take the bait and run with it. It doesn't work and in this case, it didn't with the majority of the American people either. There are two points here that make this particular situation unique: one, CW's family is particularly vile and VERY outspoken about it, and two, SW and CW's lives were very openly broadcast for everyone to see on social media, and the small portion of the population that wanted to hate her found a way to do so via her personality and social presence.

My point is that the Shanann haters would've hated Shanann whether Tammy used that interrogation tactic or not.

Spot on.

 

[Chloe_ee]

I don't think Tammy was remorseful or should be for using that strategy, or that any LE will stop doing that in the future. It's unfortunate that CW is such trash to smear his innocent victim, but Tammy's goal was to get a confession in order to get a conviction. And her style was genius. A relaxed style that prompted CW to do the LAST thing he should do - talk. Even if what came out of his mouth wasn't the full story, but that can be just as good. Sometimes a provable lie is as good as the truth.

And Tammy did ask CW, "are you SURE this story is what you want to go with - you're okay with this out there and that the public thinking Shanann did this to your children??" CW is the only one to blame. I think the investigator's tactics were smart and solid. It's unfortunate and vile that the narrative got out there. CW's family definitely contributed to that. The pathetic part was CW dropped that story pretty fast. It was only in the initial confession that got released. Never pursued. Never argued by his attorneys. And his horrible mother kept insisting on it and circulating that story, even when CW pleaded guilty. And these weird bloggers and groupies kept it alive. In no normal universe would most people even consider that to be a viable story. Even his own attorneys didn't put that forward.

I remember hearing that was CW initial story; and thought his parents are going to lawyer him all the way up; because we knew there were major financial issues with CW.. and I thought he is going to get away with this absurd lie...and SW will go down as perhaps murderer of her own children and somehow CW would get away with crime of passion or some shi-te. I was glad the entire lie was dispelled VERY quickly.

Early on in the Watts case; I thought CW would pull what Fotis Dulos pulled a year later...deny, can't find the bodies, no body, stonewall, completely deny, deny, deny, keep his mouth shut (enough)...and eventually get away with it..

CW did all that talking..when he said Bella loved with a D or Cee Cee loved with a D, in the initial interrogation; the officers knew - they were gone and he knew they were gone. CW would have said Bella LOVES, and Cee Cee Loves....very fortunate he needed to play the good guy and talk...and Fotis, he doesn't care about being 'seen' as a good guy, so he's stonewalling..

 

[steeltowngirl]

Anyone know where Watts is located now? He doesn’t show in a search of inmate lookup for DOC in either Colorado or Wisconsin.

Did I just miss it? Did he move again? Or is he not listed at all for security reasons?

Apologies if this was previously answered. I can’t find it.

 

[WhatDidYouDo]

I watched the Oxygen special last night and cried a lot. CW is my ex-husband in so many ways - such a nice guy who couldn't hurt a fly on the outside but a demon on the inside. They have all the same weird quirks right down to the world salad. What happened with Shannan could have been me but I'm lucky - or more realistically, it just hasn't happened to me yet.

I did have a nice take away in how much the police cared about Shannan tho - all of them will never forget her. I've been in terrible situations where the police escalated my DV, so I don't have the most positive outlook there but this restored my faith a tiny bit.