Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #118

[JudgeJudi]

QUOTE="stattlich1, post: 15640162, member: 253890"] ... my mind indicates that some extremely odd stuff may have been either

a. done to/with these girls' bodies, or
b. placed and/or arranged at the scene,
c. or both

Not to mention the words of Carter at the presser "And I can assure you that how you left them in that woods is not, IS NOT, what they are experiencing today."

And so, it would lead me to speculate that the killer was so enraged as to have done the most evil and satanic thing(s) imaginable at that scene, or the killer was so mentally deranged so as to have left a physical crime scene unlike many others, or both.[/QUOTE]

"Some of it is somewhat odd. The crime scene was physically strange. "
"As soon as I saw that, I knew something really bad happened."
"… bizarre and horrible"

I, and probably many others here, have read what allegedly happened to one of the girls. If it's true, it’s nothing short of gruesome in the extreme, yet these 3 men are describing something quite different. To me it sounds as if there was a ritualistic and possibly religious element to it, but I’m keeping my thoughts on this private.

As for Carter's words, IIRC the majority of people here thought he was referring to the fact that Abby and Libby are now in heaven.

May God bless these two girls. My thoughts and prayers are for their loved ones, not only over this holy season, but always.

 

[Yemelyan]

I've been unable to find the answer to this. If nothing else, I think they were probably regular churchgoers and associated with some other church-related groups. Libby's grandfather, Dennis Bridge, said, "We are Christians and Liberty went to church in Delphi." Abby's obituary said she attended several area churches with her family.

Libby's funeral was held at the Delphi United Methodist Church and vigils for both girls were held at this church.

I've only been able to find one video of the girls together and this is it, so for me it's poignant and special. They sing together beautifully.

Sorry, but I don't think this is them. Not only do they not look like Abby, Libby, or especially Anna, but if you look at other videos posted by this user, "Libby" and "Abby" continue to appear in new videos into 2019. The user who uploaded this video lives in Clermont, Florida, not Delphi, Indiana. Looks like her husband is a church music leader so she uploads some worship performances at their local church. It's just a coincidence on the names.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Sorry, but I don't think this is them. Not only do they not look like Abby, Libby, or especially Anna, but if you look at other videos posted by this user, "Libby" and "Abby" continue to appear in new videos into 2019. The user who uploaded this video lives in Clermont, Florida, not Delphi, Indiana. Looks like her husband is a church music leader so she uploads some worship performances at their local church. It's just a coincidence on the names.

Thanks for that. What a shame.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I don't use any social media platforms. I'm particularly interested in knowing if anyone here was able to view any of Libby's SM before they were shut down.

In particular, did she post any paintings or drawings, especially on Kik. Thanks.

 

[Charlot123]

It is familiar hocus pocus in a case like this. Don't allow the low percentage types to overrule base logic. In every unsolved high profile case it becomes an industry to betray conventional wisdom with some far flung theory. That's why I miss being in Las Vegas daily. In that realm the outlier theories are rejected and ridiculed for what they are: Oh, so you want to patch just the correct amount of absurdly thick hair at just the proper angle and color to somewhat cooperate with your one cherry-picked photo frame, while ignoring everything else subsequent and prior? Well isn't that special. Here, have a cookie.

@Awsi Dooger, I have already posted it, sorry for repeating myself ...

The problem is not in someone sticking to the theory that we might not share.

The problem is that there is nada, zilch, zero, news. And I suspect that Jan 2nd podcast (while no doubt providing a potluck of food for conversations and theories), will, essentially, be as uninformative as everything else.

What we have is: two murders, case unsolved, plus information vacuum. Either LE knows who it is and “working hard”, or knows and is sitting on the case, for some reason, or has no idea.

In this situation, everyone has full right to propose his theories. @Mike Britton believes that it was a young man, a local athlete megastar with thick hair - his right! Nothing that LE has said has disproved it, and NBG looks young.

I vacillate daily between “someone local” (as LE has hinted at it) and “a transient, and LE has no clue who he is”.

But given what we know - everyone is entitled to stick to own theory. Because - cold case. (I wish to be wrong).

 

[Charlot123]

Here is a quote from an Aug 14, 2017 Holeman interview (in the video at the end of the article), which some believed to mean your brother or father could be the person who was probably going to kill again.

I did not take it that way; I took it to mean BG could kill anyone, regardless of sex. If the person he kills next could be a male, then we need to re-think motives. IMO

@ mm 8:48:
" ...I still believe somebody knows, somebody knows what happened and for whatever reason they won't come forward.. uhm.. and we wish they would, obviously, because this person's probably going to do this again and I'd hate for that to happen to you or your loved ones....and that's the message I want to get out to the public is if you do know, for sure you need to let us know so ...we can possibly stop this from happening again to your daughter or your mother or sister or anybody, it could be your brother or father as well."

Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence

Do you believe serial killers attack men? Very seldom. Dahmer did, but he was attracted to males. Most often these cowards attack children or women. So, if “brother or father”, then either very young brother or very old father.

 

[Charlot123]

I'm torn on this. I can see your points about youth.

But I feel that mental issues/psychopathy could result in odd CS at any age. And I could see intelligence being anywhere on the spectrum. People have made cases that the risk involved with this crime shows lack of intelligence but it could also be complete lack of impulse control. Others have made the case for high intelligence because of the lack of DNA (rumor) and the fact that he still has not been caught.

Lack of DNA could be his high intelligence or lack of experience of the LE. People have mentioned BG spitting, but why do we assume that LE had collected the DNA from the spit?

 

[Charlot123]

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[tresir2012]

That is borderline laughable. You are taking the one interpretation among thousands that will remove the hat or hoodie. That is exactly the worst type of analysis. You are angling the head at just your desired angle and patching just the one singular hairstyle to strain to make it fit. Those of us who see the rim aren't forced into any type of manipulations like that. We are not desperately relying on one frame only. We see the rim because there is indeed a rim.

Let's just say I wish you made the daily betting lines. There would be bargains galore.

Originally, when LE only released one frame, many saw a hat, hair or a hoodie and so they chose one then three frames to release for obvious reasons of clarity.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I watched a video today with 3 members of S.T.A.L.K., a profiling team of professionals whose mission is to aid LE in the apprehension of serial killers through a comprehensive profiling process.

The video is extremely tedious to listen to as it’s s.l.o.w., and long (44:34), so I’ve outlined it all.

Their partial profile is as follows:

He’s a very sadistic white male; 5’8” – 5’10”; weighs approx. 200 lbs;
Not below average intelligence;
Very well organised and structured;
It definitely appears this wasn’t a random act; It seemed pretty obvious that he had some foreknowledge that the girls would be on the trail that day and he was equipped for it.
He probably stalked the girls in some way prior to this particular meeting. There's some kind of connection somehow, somewhere, some way, or else he just got really, really lucky.
He was extremely knowledgeable about that particular area;
Has a very visual primary intake sense;
Would probably have some kind of visual, hands-on type of job, perhaps in a slaughterhouse, or is a trucker;
Probably does visual things in his spare time;
May have taken photos of his “work” which he may find sexually stimulating. The Golden State Killer was also a visual predator;
Not a typically social person;
Can be seen as odd or weird;
Probably doesn’t have great language skills and doesn’t communicate a lot.
An insignificant person that has no moral sense and victimised the girls because it made him feel powerful.
Has a drastic need to control because he has such low self-esteem and low self-worth. He tries to cover that up with his pathological narcissism by being “the guy”, “the man”, the “man in control”;
Probably into hunting;
Somewhat of a visual braggart … “Let me show you this”, “Here’s a deer I got over here”, Here’s a fish I got over there”, etc.
The only thing he’s got going for him is what he can capture, control and probably kill. That’s his claim to fame in a lot of ways.
He could be focused on violent *advertiser censored*, specifically sado-masochistic activities.

They believe he watches YouTube all the time because that is the only place where he can get information, as have all the predators they’ve stalked over the years.

 

[tresir2012]

Tresir you ASTOUND me with your sleuthing of (and consequent knowledge of) this case. I'm always many, many paces behind you.

Stattlich, you are 6'1" ? I thought you were a girl. Ummm... guess not? LOL! I should have known by your avatar.

My apologies for many duplicate posts above. I will shut up for a while now.

P.S. Those who are lurking, please chime in!

Not me. But thanks for the compliment. Many exceptional posters on here help with sharing details for us to speculate and put info together so joint effort including you.

 

[tresir2012]

Because "Guys" and "down the hill" are separated by [the girls pleading or crying] or something else that has been removed. IMO

And it took two and a half years to remove that, which I cannot believe. I think they wasted time on other POIs, as we know.

 

[tresir2012]

Here is the entire album. Those photos are included. It's easier for me to do it this way than to figure out how to post directly to the thread:

https://tinyurl.com/tssdaaw

TYVM for that. Perhaps it can go in our media thread.

 

[tresir2012]

Also possible that BG is dead or in jail

I think the second is highly likely especially considering no warnings issued that the killer is still out there. I am hopeful anyway. MOO

 

[almagata]

Do you believe serial killers attack men? Very seldom. Dahmer did, but he was attracted to males. Most often these cowards attack children or women. So, if “brother or father”, then either very young brother or very old father.

Actually, there are quite a few serial killers that kill men. They may kill the man as part of a couple or they may just be indiscriminate killers.

Killers that have explosive rage will lash out at who ever is nearby. Sometimes it is their family and sometimes it is an acquaintance or coworker but sometimes it is a stranger.

 

[tresir2012]

I don't use any social media platforms. I'm particularly interested in knowing if anyone here was able to view any of Libby's SM before they were shut down.

In particular, did she post any paintings or drawings, especially on Kik. Thanks.

I remember seeing her Instagram with a lot of her photos and comments posted and messages. And of course old Instagram posts can be used to communicate. In fact some posters had posted condolence messages on her Instagram, after the girls' murder, it was very sad. LE will obviously have this now.

 

[JudgeJudi]

I remember seeing her Instagram with a lot of her photos and comments posted and messages. And of course old Instagram posts can be used to communicate. In fact some posters had posted condolence messages on her Instagram, after the girls' murder, it was very sad. LE will obviously have this now.

Thank you tresir. Do you remember if she posted photos of her paintings or drawings? The night before she went to the bridge, she and Abby stayed up well into the night doing a chocolate painting, whatever that is. I'm not interested in messages or comments, only artwork, and I don't need to know what the artwork is, only that she posted it. TIA

 

[cody22]

Hmmmm....I really don't think this is Delphi girls Abby and Libby singing....

Agreed.... This is not Abby and Libby.....moo

 

[FrostedGlass]

Do you believe serial killers attack men? Very seldom. Dahmer did, but he was attracted to males. Most often these cowards attack children or women. So, if “brother or father”, then either very young brother or very old father.

That's an interesting question. I'm not convinced he's a serial killer who targets only young girls. I'm also not convinced there is only 1 person involved.

Honestly, much of the info LE has put out there is so frustratingly ambiguous that I'm not convinced of much of anything.

Why did Holeman say that if he didn't believe it?

 

[Yemelyan]

Snipped by me

Why did Holeman say that if he didn't believe it?

Regarding why Holeman tossed "father or brother" into the conversation, JMO but I think he meant that a person capable of killing two young girls under these brutal circumstances is capable of killing absolutely anyone. Speak up if you know something because no one is safe while a person like this is out there.