Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #118

[SeattleStew]

(O/T, this manual can also be found here for quick reference, I created a thread for this in the databases section a while back:

U.S. DOJ / FBI / BAU / Serial Murder - Pathways for Investigations )

ETA: @SeattleStew , can you please link the podcast/preview you mention? I am VERY interested to hear what you’re talking about re: their adjectives! Tia

Sorry, @margarita25 I had to run out before I saw your post, and thank you for having already creating a thread for this informative document.

@sunshineray Thank you for getting back to @margarita25 for me. I owe ya one.

 

[SeattleStew]

Came back to say that KG said on Twitter that "Scene of the Crime" podcast is 7 episodes.

I'm very much looking forward to this.

 

[10ofRods]

The age range thing has always puzzled me. "Might appear younger than his true age" - how could they know that? My first impression was that this meant they had a suspect in mind already.

Why such a large range? You'd be hard pressed to find an 18 year old and a 40 year old who look the same age. Not to mention at least 50% of suspects are going to fall within that range. Not easy to rule anyone out like that.

Also, it's fairly common for people to look older than they really are - especially young adults, like a 17 year old who looks 20 - but for men especially, it seems rare to find someone who looks younger.

This is particularly confusing because most people who saw the photo of BG immediately pegged him as 40+ years old. And now we're told he could be as young as 18, and look like a 16 year old? That doesn't fit at all with what I see in the video. When I look at the stills of BG, I see a middle aged man or a very grizzled young man who could appear much older.

Really, really confusing stuff. As much as I'd like to know more about this crime, I don't think any of us have a right to more information from LE just to sate our curiosities. Nonetheless, I think ISP has put out a lot of conflicting and confusing information that needs to be cleared up - starting with some clarification and explanations about the two sketches.

Joseph DeAngelo is probably alive today due to one policeman thinking he looked (way) younger than his actual age. And the composite created from that encounter shows someone who looks to be in their early teens. DeAngelo was 30.

 

[Boxer]

Dbm

Joseph DeAngelo is probably alive today due to one policeman thinking he looked (way) younger than his actual age. And the composite created from that encounter shows someone who looks to be in their early teens. DeAngelo was 30.

Could you link article? That is interesting.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Judi, this was done in 2015...are you sure that is Abby and Libby?

I was looking for videos of the girls on YouTube. The date of the video (not the date it was uploaded to YT) was June 6, 2015, 2 years before the murders, and the girls look younger.

There are numerous photos of Abby with her hair up on the internet, as it is in the video.
Abby’s hair is darker than Libby’s.
Anna also has dark hair in many photos, as it is in the video.
Libby’s hair is considerably lighter.

What are the odds of 3 people named Abby, Libby and Anna singing a religious song together.

I didn't doubt it when I saw it, but if it isn’t them, so be it.

Sorry, but I don't think this is them. Not only do they not look like Abby, Libby, or especially Anna, but if you look at other videos posted by this user, "Libby" and "Abby" continue to appear in new videos into 2019. The user who uploaded this video lives in Clermont, Florida, not Delphi, Indiana. Looks like her husband is a church music leader so she uploads some worship performances at their local church. It's just a coincidence on the names.

I'm really sorry it wasn't them, really sorry. The singing was just lovely.

 

[hall5885]

This is a case that's always bothered me. It's one that does hit home though. I went to school with Abby's Mom. While I hate that these things happen, I am also grateful to see so many people trying to piece things together to track down who did this. Thank you. I'm going to read through this whole thread and see if I can offer anything to it as well.

 

[JudgeJudi]

This is a case that's always bothered me. It's one that does hit home though. I went to school with Abby's Mom. While I hate that these things happen, I am also grateful to see so many people trying to piece things together to track down who did this. Thank you. I'm going to read through this whole thread and see if I can offer anything to it as well.

Hall. It's great to have you with us. We're all very committed to keeping these threads alive. It must be very distressing for you to have that connection with Anna and we look forward to your posts.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Here's a link to Websleuths Lingo that may come in handy.

Websleuths Lingo

 

[Spartygirl]

Here is what I will say, my 2 daughters (16 y/o), are on SM. There is a popular app that had a “ghost” mode. This allows any app follower to know exactly where you are at at all times.
My one daughter is a sober cab for many kids as she avoids parties but will pick up friends who have been drinking and give them a ride home. A few weeks ago, a party got busted and kids scattered. Her one friend needed a ride so she just followed her “ghost” and found her whereabouts to give her a ride home.
how creepy is that?

VERY CREEPY !!!! YIKES

 

[Yemelyan]

I'm really sorry it wasn't them, really sorry. The singing was just lovely.

It's okay. The singing was beautiful and I think you took comfort from the thought that it was them. I only commented because I feel it is so critically important to have accuracy here.

 

[BNA]

This is a compilation put together by Julie Melvin of Libby's music videos.

Looks like she is doing American Sign Language.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Well, he killed two and Holeman warns he might kill more. One more will make him a SK. And if there are two or three involved, even worse!

But honestly, most of them kill weak people. Some predators...the same type that would kill animals on safaris! Despicable. IRL, they are afraid of strong males.

(Or the guy who killed cats in Thurston County. What would you think of him? A true coward!)

I wasn't aware of that case. Since I'm a cat lover, I can't properly address what I think of him on this forum. Luka Rocco Magnotta would probably still be walking around free if he hadn't tortured a kitten live on the internet. So when he did the 1 Lunatic, 1 Ice Pick video (incognito), it showed a wall hanging by his bed. The enraged cat people remembered the same wall hanging from the kitten torturer video and they tipped LE. Insane people walk among us.

 

[Charlot123]

I wasn't aware of that case. Since I'm a cat lover, I can't properly address what I think of him on this forum. Luka Rocco Magnotta would probably still be walking around free if he hadn't tortured a kitten live on the internet. So when he did the 1 Lunatic, 1 Ice Pick video (incognito), it showed a wall hanging by his bed. The enraged cat people remembered the same wall hanging from the kitten torturer video and they tipped LE. Insane people walk among us.

OK. 13 cases in Thurston country and then it stopped. Now it started in Everett. Everett police give update on mutilated cat investigation

Everett is in Snohomish county. With its trails where the bodies of women who disappeared from Northern WA have been found.

I wonder if the LE ever cared to connect the two, murdered cats and murdered women?

 

[Tiger Stripes]

(SBM for focus) IIRC crime statistics tell us random stranger murder is the least likely scenario (and random stranger double murders are even less likely), and for me I have not seen an argument whose plausibility convinces me that this case would defy those odds so I continue to assume BG is at a minimum at least from the surrounding area to Delphi if not Delphi itself. I tend to think someone does know something and they have not said anything because they are either BG's close family and they feel conflicted about not ever seeing BG outside of a jail visiting room again and doing what's right (a parent would be the most prominent withholder of evidence if this was true), or they are peripherally involved in some way or the reason they know what they know is not on the up and up and they don't want to incriminate themselves in the process. I hope a scientific breakthrough, a slip of the tongue (perhaps a drug or alcohol fueled rant), or a deathbed confession brings closure but by all accounts I don't think as the 3rd anniversary nears anyone could reasonably argue that it hasn't gone cold. My $0.02 is that LE does know who did this but doesn't have the evidence to convict, as was the case for 2yrs with the Rhoden family mass murder in rural Pike County.

While I love your clarity at pinpointing the *unlikelihood* of this case having been the act of a random individual, @taximama24, I respectfully disagree with you that the case has gone cold (though based upon what *we*/non-LE know, it *does* "look" to have gone cold). Your $0.02 assessment sounds 110% accurate (JMOO): that LE is still working on acquiring the evidence to convict. I, along with so many others here on WS, am praying that LE would be able to access that evidence ASAP, and even in some unexpected way, via some unexpected source (though I myself have no idea who/where that source is right now).

 

[gregjrichards]

Here is what I will say, my 2 daughters (16 y/o), are on SM. There is a popular app that had a “ghost” mode. This allows any app follower to know exactly where you are at at all times.
My one daughter is a sober cab for many kids as she avoids parties but will pick up friends who have been drinking and give them a ride home. A few weeks ago, a party got busted and kids scattered. Her one friend needed a ride so she just followed her “ghost” and found her whereabouts to give her a ride home.
how creepy is that?

This ghost mode (was it snapchat?) and end to end encryption not being able to assist law enforcement should both not be allowed in my opinion. I agree that people should have privacy but not when it can help Monsters attack and/or murder victims.

 

[sunshineray]

I'm really sorry it wasn't them, really sorry. The singing was just lovely.

It was beautiful, no worries.

 

[margarita25]

Jumping off this post:

Nicole Bowen's murderer, Garett Kirts, has allegedly murdered her and an older man (not charged yet), separately but somewhat connected - and GK is from the general area with Delphi connections as close as RL's property.

Just to say that sometimes killers don't have an apparent "type" it seems.

This is SO TRUE, Moo, and what I’ve been saying all along about MOs and victim preference.

(Sorry to shout there lol)

 

[Charlot123]

Jumping off this post:

Nicole Bowen's murderer, Garett Kirts, has allegedly murdered her and an older man (not charged yet), separately but somewhat connected - and GK is from the general area with Delphi connections as close as RL's property.

Just to say that sometimes killers don't have an apparent "type" it seems.

But GK is sort of an alpha male. A stupid and meth-infused, but an alpha, or trying to be the one. His behavior, his fights, his need to assert himself, fights with other guys. Very different from BG. MOO.

 

[Charlot123]

While I love your clarity at pinpointing the *unlikelihood* of this case having been the act of a random individual, @taximama24, I respectfully disagree with you that the case has gone cold (though based upon what *we*/non-LE know, it *does* "look" to have gone cold). Your $0.02 assessment sounds 110% accurate (JMOO): that LE is still working on acquiring the evidence to convict. I, along with so many others here on WS, am praying that LE would be able to access that evidence ASAP, and even in some unexpected way, via some unexpected source (though I myself have no idea who/where that source is right now).

The problem is, he might be arrested somewhere else now, as a stalker or a voyeur. And not all states have the same laws re DNA that Indiana does.

 

[book-thinker]

OK. 13 cases in Thurston country and then it stopped. Now it started in Everett. Everett police give update on mutilated cat investigation

Everett is in Snohomish county. With its trails where the bodies of women who disappeared from Northern WA have been found.

I wonder if the LE ever cared to connect the two, murdered cats and murdered women?

This is creepy! A good friend recently retired from the Everett police force. He
still has plenty of friends over there.
I will see what he knows. I didn’t realize we had a problem with cats being mutilated here in Everett. I’m going to worry about my little Jack Russell dog being outside at any length of time.
We definitely have a share of creepy individuals in the northwest.