"Playing Doctor"?

[UKGuy]

Ramsey housekeeper cannot discuss grand jury testimony in book - The Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press

Ramsey housekeeper cannot discuss grand jury testimony in book

August 8, 2003

Tadpole12,
LHP knows where the skeletons are buried, she likely has a good idea as to who was responsible?

.

 

[Tadpole12]

I wonder if anyone ever pondered the question of the paintbrush being whittled as apposed to broken?

looks like a break, iirc has always been considered as such, but one could 'score' a wooden object with a blade before breakage.

 

[Tadpole12]

Tadpole12,
LHP knows where the skeletons are buried, she likely has a good idea as to who was responsible?

.

I guess the decision still stands, at this point in time?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

ya dc

In the 'tidder' recreation of the train track experiment,
the wounds looked like a puncture.
Idk? if JBR's body had been dragged on the carpet/tiles, wouldn't circumferential skin build up around the wound be observable, microscopically?, indicating dragging.
WS's scenario places JBR's body on the yellow raincoat,
the abrasion being a friction burn from a nautical style button.

I have yet to see a comparable circular abrasion within google images.

Tadpole, do you remember this:

No, an “abrasion” (in the medical sense) does not have to come from abrading the skin. Just like the medical use of the word “chronic” is misunderstood, Dr. Meyer’s use of abrasion misleads laypersons to misinterpret parts of the AR. He also called the red mark on her neck and the large spot on her cheek abrasions, but he doesn’t attribute the cause in either case. An abrasion, despite its etymology, is simply a term for a relatively low degree of damage to the outer surface of skin regardless of its cause.

From Wikipedia:

“In dermatology, an abrasion is a wound caused by superficial damage to the skin, no deeper than the epidermis. It is less severe than a laceration, and bleeding, if present, is minimal.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abrasion_(medical)
​

We all think of an abrasion as something caused by a rubbing action which causes some type of visible damage to skin. But when a forensic pathologist sees some type of damage to the surface of the skin and doesn’t know the cause, he refers to the area as an abrasion because of its definition in dermatology. In other words, he is not addressing its cause, but rather its appearance. When we think of a cut, a bruise, or an abrasion, we think subjectively to the cause of each. When a pathologist uses these terms, he/she is thinking objectively toward the appearance only until he/she establishes the cause.

The “abrasions” Meyer noted on her back could very well be from her being “poked” by some object such as has been theorized by Kolar.


The "difference of 2/16 inch" (1/8") is the difference between the largest and smallest approximations taken from two different marks:

(BTW, MEs usually use Metric measurements as shown on the the American Board of Forensic Odontology (ABFO) forensic scale in the photo. I don't know why Meyer used Imperial measurements here instead of Metric, which would be much more accurate.)

 

[Rain on my Parade]

looks like a break, iirc has always been considered as such, but one could 'score' a wooden object with a blade before breakage.

Indeed

 

[Rain on my Parade]

I've seen it said here and elsewhere (I admit to reading other forums ), that a former maid has said she caught Burke and JonBenet "playing doctor". I've heard varying versions of this but have never seen a source for it.

Does anyone know where this comes from? Thanks a lot.

On forums for justice under ‘Burke or Bust’, you will find cookie talking about this matter. Cookie is Judith Phillips.

 

[10ofRods]

IMO her credibility is zero.

Can you say why? I haven't looked into her much.

 

[Occams Razor]

Don't know whether it's been said yet, but two pre-pubescent kids playing doctor wouldn't cause the kind of lasting internal injuries present at autopsy. Girls aren't even aware of the vaginal canal until the teen years... if not later. It isn't easily accessed & doesn't serve a purpose until menstruation. Many adult women don't even know the difference between the "pee hole," the vagina & the vulva, etc. (I say this as a woman myself). So it's even less likely a pre-pubescent BOY would know about its location/potential function.

I've heard all kinds of justifications for the pre-existing damage, ranging from 'masturbation' to 'it was Burke or one of his friends' but that just doesn't ring true to me. I hate talking about this particular topic because it's so graphic but I can't see a way around it in this case.

I don't doubt the siblings could've engaged in improper contact but I feel the more severe abuse described in the report was done by an adult. MOO, of course.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Let’s go back in time:

Strong forensic evidence exists that JonBenet Ramsey had been chronically sexually abused. The question to answer, of course, is by WHOM? The list of possible suspects able to get to JonBenet multiple times would be very limited. So could it have been Burke who had been molesting JonBenet?

It's generally known that when children have been sexually abused, they often will later become sexual abusers themselves. But what evidence is there that Burke had ever been sexually abused?

Circumstantial evidence of sexual abuse to Burke having occurred does exist, although it is not strong. It exists in the form of written correspondence to a private party, a copy of which is reportedly in the hands of the police, but has never been released. I saw a copy of the correspondence, which has been cautiously circulated, and read it myself.

The correspondence states that Burke may have been sexually abused as a toddler, and it could have led to why at age 3 he would sit on the floor and openly play with himself. Patsy reportedly allowed him to continue so as not to "stigmatize" him. Also, Nedra reportedly had said that Burke was "mature" for his age.

The correspondence stated that Burke liked to be alone or with only one other person at a time. He particularly liked Aunt Pam and when he was with her he would order anyone else who entered the room to get out.

The correspondence revealed the early suspected molestation may have been the result of a close non-family member regularly treating toddler Burke by massaging him for an "itch" caused by circumcision. The family of the person reportedly doing the massaging, according to the correspondence, allegedly has an extensive history of child molestation, although the Ramseys were not aware of this history at the time.

If the information in this correspondence is credible, then it appears that Burke could have been a victim of child sexual abuse, and therefore a possible incest perpetrator.

But it's all JUST MY OPINION based on the information I read in the correspondence (the existence of which can be verified by one or two others in this forum and elsewhere).

BlueCrab

 

[10ofRods]

Here is a pic of some stun gun wounds (from a man who is protesting what the police did to him in an unrelated, more recent case):

https://shawglobalnews.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/burns1.jpg?quality=70&strip=all&w=960

There are quite a few pictures of stun gun injuries that look similar to JBR's and medical examiners and pathologists seem to state they'd need to examine the wounds to be certain.

I'm not sure why the stun gun means it's an intruder, at all, though.

 

[10ofRods]

Don't know whether it's been said yet, but two pre-pubescent kids playing doctor wouldn't cause the kind of lasting internal injuries present at autopsy. Girls aren't even aware of the vaginal canal until the teen years... if not later. It isn't easily accessed & doesn't serve a purpose until menstruation. Many adult women don't even know the difference between the "pee hole," the vagina & the vulva, etc. (I say this as a woman myself). So it's even less likely a pre-pubescent BOY would know about its location/potential function.

I've heard all kinds of justifications for the pre-existing damage, ranging from 'masturbation' to 'it was Burke or one of his friends' but that just doesn't ring true to me. I hate talking about this particular topic because it's so graphic but I can't see a way around it in this case.

I don't doubt the siblings could've engaged in improper contact but I feel the more severe abuse described in the report was done by an adult. MOO, of course.

I disagree and at least one expert (who appears not to have a reason to lie about it) says that the less recent injuries were consistent with digital penetration, including that of a young person. It's true that the more recent abrasion and the final assault seem to be different. However, whoever did it used an implement, so could be any age.

A girl doesn't have to know she has a vagina in order to be raped or fingered. It's a sad topic (grooming) but the chronic injuries are consistent with digital penetration/grooming. Victims of sibling incest have similar injuries and the (older) sibling may in fact be grooming them and it may take years before the younger child catches on and reports. There are quite a few studies on this.

Nothing in the injuries rules out another child as the one who inflicted the injuries (although another 6 year old girl is unlikely), nor does it rule out an adult (stranger or otherwise). But it has to be explained.

I find it hard to believe that there is more than one sexual abuser in this scenario, but I know that others disagree.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Here is a pic of some stun gun wounds (from a man who is protesting what the police did to him in an unrelated, more recent case):

https://shawglobalnews.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/burns1.jpg?quality=70&strip=all&w=960

There are quite a few pictures of stun gun injuries that look similar to JBR's and medical examiners and pathologists seem to state they'd need to examine the wounds to be certain.

I'm not sure why the stun gun means it's an intruder, at all, though.

This does look like JB injuries. I always wondered why JR stated he took home a video tape about stuns guns; yet he did not own one. Perhaps the guns cost close to the amount the video tape took to produce. Doesn’t add up.
Here is Kolar’s account:

 

[Tadpole12]

Here is a pic of some stun gun wounds (from a man who is protesting what the police did to him in an unrelated, more recent case):

https://shawglobalnews.files.wordpress.com/2017/07/burns1.jpg?quality=70&strip=all&w=960

Is this photo meant as a comparison to JBR's injury?

 

[kaykay543]

looks like a break, iirc has always been considered as such, but one could 'score' a wooden object with a blade before breakage.

As a "painter" I can tell you that over time the wood gets very weak. Mostly from constant cleaning, being wet, turpentine etc. A much used older paint brush wouldn't be hard to break at all. I have had some just crumble.

 

[kaykay543]

Can you say why? I haven't looked into her much.

She and her husband were dead broke. Which is why PR had written her a check as a loan. IMO she was just saying all this stuff to make a quick buck. The more salacious the better. If I remember correctly she did sell stories to the tabloids. And was writing a book

 

[Tadpole12]

As a "painter" I can tell you that over time the wood gets very weak. Mostly from constant cleaning, being wet, turpentine etc. A much used older paint brush wouldn't be hard to break at all. I have had some just crumble.

ya, kk, the wood looks 'spongy'?

 

[Rain on my Parade]

ya, kk, the wood looks 'spongy'?

The paintbrush does look old and very used.