IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #4

[MsMarple]

Winkleman Stmt. re "No Eyewitnesses"
@MsMarple Yes, yes, yes. But IIRC, he said, ~ "No eyewitnesses have come forward" my emphasis on not 'come forward.' I remember thinking (perhaps posting, sorry no link) ~ Maybe eyewitnesses have not come forward to Winkleman, but the Prosecutor may have sworn stmts from ten eyewitnesses - passengers and/or cruiseline employees - and some of those witnesses may have provided their personal videos to prosecutors as well. jmo.

Yeah, Winkleman kind of said both when he spoke about what SA said:

"It may be hard for some people to believe that the grandpa didn't know that that section of the window was open. … How did he know that there was glass?" Begnaud asked.

"The only way that you can prove or disprove anything that Sam said is based on the video and based on his testimony … Those are the only pieces of evidence you have," Winkleman said. "There were no eye witnesses. There's no one who's come forward to tell any different story. … So all you have is Sam's testimony, his story and the video."

Video shows girl's final moments with grandfather before cruise ship death

 

[Montrealaise]

I feel some heated anger towards them because of the way they are aggressively attacking others instead of questioning their stepfather and his actions.

I am angry at the way they are trying to make HIM the victim of the cruise liner. When it was said that 'if not for RCCL, little C would be going to see Frozen 2 on her 2nd birthday'--- it made me very heated.

Is it really RCCL's fault?

As you said: "No one really needs to be told don't stick a child in or out an open window any stories above the ground."

Yet this family is suing the cruise line, and demanding that everyone be told that, by putting signs on EVERY window, saying 'this window may be open.'

Sorry, but that^^^ does make me very angry. Does every future passenger on that liner have to look at hundreds of those red stickers instead of seeing a beautiful ocean view?

That does make me feel some kind of way.

Well said. I'd like to add that the fact they're trying to get millions of dollars from the cruise company, even though the company is not at fault - but it does have lots of money - makes them seem greedy. And greed is never an admirable trait.

 

[Montrealaise]

I feel some heated anger towards them because of the way they are aggressively attacking others instead of questioning their stepfather and his actions.

I am angry at the way they are trying to make HIM the victim of the cruise liner. When it was said that 'if not for RCCL, little C would be going to see Frozen 2 on her 2nd birthday'--- it made me very heated.

Is it really RCCL's fault?

As you said: "No one really needs to be told don't stick a child in or out an open window any stories above the ground."

Yet this family is suing the cruise line, and demanding that everyone be told that, by putting signs on EVERY window, saying 'this window may be open.'

Sorry, but that^^^ does make me very angry. Does every future passenger on that liner have to look at hundreds of those red stickers instead of seeing a beautiful ocean view?

That does make me feel some kind of way.

Well said. I'd like to add that the fact they're trying to get millions of dollars from the cruise company, even though the company is not at fault - but it does have lots of money - makes them seem greedy. And greed is never an admirable trait.

 

[sl222]

for anonymity purposes? the puppet is in female clothing but the voice is male...just kinda odd for a news broadcast....if it's a news broadcast?

Spanish tv is wacky. No offense intended at all - my ex is from Cenral America and I've seen a lot of Spanish-speaking shows. It's just a different style.

I also go to their news sites as much as I can with this case because there's more chance of getting the facts and less trying to cover things up to avoid hurting someone's feelings or whatever.

 

[BeachSky]

I can make out him looking down, but for the life of me, I don’t see him putting her out of the window. What am I missing??

Megatvpr
If you scroll down to La Comay (yesterday’s posting) of the ship video.
Go to the * 8:23 mark * he turns and lifts her up as he places her out the window.
You can see his large head with her small head in front of his, to his left.



MOO

 

[MsMarple]

Another interesting take from July 8:
Initial reports claimed her grandfather, named as Salvatore Anello, dangled her from a window, but South Bend Police Department have since said that this is not true. They said Chloe slipped from his hands after he lost his balance, WSBT reported.
Pictured: Toddler who fell to her death from grandfather's arms on cruise ship | Metro News
Smoke and mirrors, folks.

 

[Chikkamma]

I can make out him looking down, but for the life of me, I don’t see him putting her out of the window. What am I missing??

Look at time -10:18 of the La Comay video I posted earlier today. You can clearly see it.

 

[BeachSky]

Another interesting take from July 8:
Initial reports claimed her grandfather, named as Salvatore Anello, dangled her from a window, but South Bend Police Department have since said that this is not true. They said Chloe slipped from his hands after he lost his balance, WSBT reported.
Pictured: Toddler who fell to her death from grandfather's arms on cruise ship | Metro News
Smoke and mirrors, folks.

That fits the video IMO

 

[they'll get you]

This is the camera that is overlooking the area but it looks like it’s facing the pool area rather than the window. It could be the one that captured SA crouching down.

Remember I’m not on the Freedom of the Seas but I’m sure it’s a similar layout.

I’m buggered why all my photos are sideways no matter how I aim the camera

 

[fabvab]

Yeah, and what's up with that? Remember, Winkleman claimed there were no eyewitnesses, prosecution claims to have witnesses both inside and out and the video clearly shows people nearby. In fact, if I saw correctly, there was someone right next to SA at the moment Chloe fell.

I was surprised how many people/potential witnesses were milling about the area and right by the window when this took place. For some reason, I had it pictured in my mind that there were just a few people.

 

[BeachSky]

Look at time -10:18 of the La Comay video I posted earlier today. You can clearly see it.

He clearly -falls- as she disappears... from both video angles IMO

 

[they'll get you]

All this horrid noise maybe SA felt the same looking after Chloe and was just pissed off too. I think us oldies call it ‘doof doof music’
I need a drink.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Incident Timeline

As I said earlier I went and downloaded the civil complaint just because I wanted to read some of the family's claims. I'm not going to go into the "this is why RC is responsible" stuff because it's not really relevant to the criminal case. But there is something curious about the timeline that they claim in the filing that I hadn't previously heard. Again this comes from WIEGAND vs ROYAL CARIBBEAN CRUISES LTD docket # 1:19-cv-25100-DLG in the Floria Southern District:

- at approximately 1:15 p.m., the family boarded the vessel in San Juan, Puerto Rico for a 7-night Southern Caribbean cruise. Upon boarding, the family went to the Windjammer Café for lunch.

- approximately 2:40 p.m, mom and Chloe get changed and go up to deck 11 to play in the pools/splash pad

- "At or around 3:50 p.m., Mrs. Schultz Wiegand needed to go help with an issue related to the cruise, and as such, Mr. Anello came up to the H2O Zone on Deck 11 of the vessel to supervise Chloe"

- Shortly after 4 p.m, SA and Chloe go to the windows and the incident occurs.

----

IIRC hasn't the story always been that the family was at dinner when this happened? There was no previous mention of any issue 'related to the cruise'. It makes me wonder if THIS is really why the parents are insisting that it's RC that is to blame, because if mom hadn't had to go deal with whatever, SA would never have been left alone with her and she'd still be alive.

If it's allowed I'll post scans of the timeline parts of the court docs to show what I'm talking about. But I'm really curious now to see if the baseline statements of fact between the criminal and civil case line up or make wildly different claims

Official court documents are definitely allowed. Please include links to anything that you post.

As for Chloe's mother needing help with an issue related to the cruise, I can suggest a couple of things:

*arrangements for a crib for Chloe needed to be discussed with cabin steward
*assuming that Chloe was not toilet trained, cabin steward would need to inform parents on appropriate diaper disposal

Cabin Steward might not have been on duty when the family checked in and boarded the ship. Cabin attendants have many duties on "turn-around" day and are not always able to meet and greet new guests immediately upon arrival. Given that the Weigands were traveling with a toddler, there are special arrangements that need to be made regarding accommodations (crib, cot), diaper disposal, etc. This may have been what Mrs. Weigand was referring to.

 

[al66pine]

Please don't give the Defense any ideas They've already come up with several different explanations/excuses for SA's reckless actions; they don't need more suggestions for his irrational behavior ....

@BetteDavisEyes SBM Oh, they've tried about everything, well, except the dog ate the homework.
Or the RCCL dog opened the window when G'pa was not looking.

 

[MsMarple]

He clearly -falls- as she disappears... from both video angles IMO

That may explain why SA said he looked on the floor for her and that he saw her fall - maybe trying to cover up that he tripped and let go of her?

“I remember trying to find her on the floor and then I saw her fall. I saw her fall the whole way down,” the grandfather told CBS through tears. “I think for a while I was just in shock.”

“Then I just remember screaming that I thought there was glass. 'I thought there was glass.' I still say it to myself, it's just, I kind of relive it all the time,” he said.
Grandfather charged in toddler's cruise ship fall: 'I thought there was glass'
It seemed odd that he was able to look for her on the floor and see her fall - it all would have happened in 3 seconds or less, not enough time to drop to the floor, look for her then look out the window and actually see her fall IMO.

 

[sl222]

I think he was making that up about looking for her on the floor and then seeing her fall. Reason number 78 why accused people should not do interviews on national tv.

 

[BeachSky]

I was surprised how many people/potential witnesses were milling about the area and right by the window when this took place. For some reason, I had it pictured in my mind that there were just a few people.

That’s probably because of this narrative ~

"The only way that you can prove or disprove anything that Sam said is based on the video and based on his testimony … Those are the only pieces of evidence you have," Winkleman said. "There were no eye witnesses. There's no one who's come forward to tell any different story. … So all you have is Sam's testimony, his story and the video."
Video shows girl's final moments with grandfather before cruise ship death

 

[FunkyMonkey]

Look at time -10:18 of the La Comay video I posted earlier today. You can clearly see it.

Thanks! I will check it out on a bigger screen soon.

 

[Kindred]

Official court documents are definitely allowed. Please include links to anything that you post.

As for Chloe's mother needing help with an issue related to the cruise, I can suggest a couple of things:

*arrangements for a crib for Chloe needed to be discussed with cabin steward
*assuming that Chloe was not toilet trained, cabin steward would need to inform parents on appropriate diaper disposal

Cabin Steward might not have been on duty when the family checked in and boarded the ship. Cabin attendants have many duties on "turn-around" day and are not always able to meet and greet new guests immediately upon arrival. Given that the Weigands were traveling with a toddler, there are special arrangements that need to be made regarding accommodations (crib, cot), diaper disposal, etc. This may have been what Mrs. Weigand was referring to.

It's just curious to me because, as I said, everything that I had heard to explain why they weren't with the rest of the family was everyone else was at the buffet but now suddenly it's "mom had to take care of something". I know sometimes things come up but it's like why didn't you just say so?

I'll go ahead and upload what I can. A link probably won't do most of the people here any good unless they can log into PACER lol

 

[sl222]

With him holding all her weight far away from his body, in the open air, he put himself in a position to be highly likely to drop her and/or lose his balance. (The South Bend Indiana Police only know what they were told and should not have weighed in, but obviously they were trying to support Mr. Wiegand.)

IMO this is not the only time that SA has shown a lack of sense around the children but that's just MOO.