IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #4

[al66pine]

18 m/o in pool?

. BBM...There is nothing inherently unsafe about a toddler getting to spend some time in a larger, regular swimming pool as long as they have proper flotation devices or are well supervised by adults. If Dad was up there on deck with their older son it stands to reason that they spent some time playing with the whole family in the big pool before taking the little one over to the splash area where she could run around safely and have her own fun while dad and the other kid practiced their cannonballs, etc.

@Kindred
Agreeing w you, okay-dokay for 18 m/o to be in pool w adult supervision.

Pool(s), the actual adult pool? Why plural?
Seems likely if Mom & Chloe were in regular/adult pools, agreeing w you, likely w other fam there too.

 

[BeachSky]

Much better in color. And how MUCH TIME he had her outside of the window. Feels like forever. Maybe if ran the video in real time...

I agree! If you actually concentrate on the movement of the other people near him in that video...it’s bizarre how long she was out there!
Video: Horrific moment Salvatore Anello drops granddaughter | Daily Mail Online


MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

I disagree. If they came out tomorrow and said after seeing the video, talking and taking some time to think, they are dropping the lawsuit and SA is taking the plea deal, because they see how his actions were not acceptable, even if he meant no harm.

If they then just asked for time and space to heal and went away, or made a deal to seal all the videos, or went on a campaign to make ships safer for stupid people or that cruise ships are no place for babies, I would have nothing but sympathy. Even now.

But this whole thing feels unseemly, and a poor legacy for little Chloe.

Yes, it is never too late to say sorry.
I will always have great empathy for someone(s) who loses a child. What a horrific loss.
But I would feel a lot more respect for them all if they managed to say sorry, we were wrong, we made the life-punishing error.

I know that, technically, it was one person's actions that caused this tragedy. But if they want to show solidarity, they can take it on the chin as a family.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

“ upon reaching the wall of glass, Chloe asked to be lifted up.”
BBM
When I hear that - it’s like the blame is being shifted to her.
Like he wanted to indulge her.
How could he deny her.
Btw, it was her idea!
You can tell Wink has written this script
“ WALL of glass”
Sold wall!
No openings!
Her idea!
I thought there was glass!


MOO

Adding in.. yes, we allow her and even encourage her to bang on plate glass wherever she is. I tell ya, she said "please lift me up to bang on the glass like I do when I go the the *advertiser censored* Hockey Games. Heck, Even in my home, I lift her up on the kitchen counter to bang on the plate glass. And my china cabinet, yep, I lift her up to bang on that glass too.

What, you ask? How does she know which ones are tempered and thick plexiglass? Ummmmmmmmmmm, Ummmmmmmmm.........it's RC's fault, and PR is trying to get back at RC for not visiting the port...

In circles that make no sense whatsoever

pffffft.

 

[JulieBEMT]

For those who have not seen it, here is a tour of the deck/area in question. We arrive outside at 0:31, and can very CLEARLY see which windows are open. (In case anyone actually believed he thought it was closed. lol) Stop at 1:22, and you get a good view out an open window, with the railing in the frame. You can see the distance between the railing and the window. In the leaked video, it's clear he lifted her over the railing and held her on, or outside of the window ledge.

.

 

[al66pine]

Baby in a diaper is not allowed in the big pool, even with a swim diaper. Thats why they have the kid zone. Not that people pay attention to the rules. They were on the ship for an hour and a half at most.... they didn't have time to do much.

@Kakidoll bbm ~ 1 1/2 hr sounds right.
Why does complaint not specify the time SA dropped her? By the time Complaint was draft/filed, atty had received all the vids, presumably w timestamps/timecounts.

Complaint details* if they are accurate.
1:15 -------- family boards ship.
___? ------- family had lunch.
2:40 -------- Mom & C in pool.
3:50 -------- G'pa begins supervising C.-------- 2 1/2 hr onboard.

4:?? - 4:30 MSM sources (no link). if 4:30 ---- 3 1/4 hr onboard

You're right, Kakidoll, not matter how calculated, not much time on board.imo

---------------------------------------------------------------
* "approximately 1:15 p.m., the family boarded the vessel in San Juan, Puerto Rico for a 7-night Southern Caribbean cruise. Upon boarding, the family went to the Windjammer Café for lunch. After lunch, Mrs. Schultz-Wiegand and Chloe changed into swimsuits, and at approximately 2:40 p.m., they began to play in the pool(s) aboard the ship.
12. At or around 3:50 p.m., Mrs. Schultz Wiegand needed to go help with an issue related to the cruise, and as such, Mr. Anello came up to the H2O Zone..." bbm

 

[fabvab]

For those who have not seen it, here is a tour of the deck/area in question. We arrive outside at 0:31, and can very CLEARLY see which windows are open. (In case anyone actually believed he thought it was closed. lol) Stop at 1:22, and you get a good view out an open window, with the railing in the frame. You can see the distance between the railing and the window. In the leaked video, it's clear he lifted her over the railing and held her on, or outside of the window ledge.

.

Oh my! When he videos through the open window on deck 11, it is so high!

 

[SouthAussie]

Oh my! When he videos through the open window on deck 11, it is so high!

I think it is very possible, due to the angle of his body, that he sat Chloe on the window ledge. Then the back and forth motion that we saw him doing was him trying to pull Chloe back in. And also when his right arm was visible, he was maybe trying to brace himself on the safety rail to pull on her harder - with the left hand.

But likely her legs were dangling down, and maybe she was also leaning forward - meaning he had to lift her back in, and he couldn't physically do that from 18" away and the high safety rail between them. Then he lost his grip on Chloe.

Because Chloe was dressed in a swimsuit, there was not even a bunch of clothing material to grab to yank her back off the window ledge and into the ship.

 

[MaryG12]

It appears from the video that SA was just following Chloe wherever she went, and she ran into that area.

But who lets a baby run around a cruise ship, even if following her? Doesn't sound right to me.

 

[Lilibet]

But who lets a baby run around a cruise ship, even if following her? Doesn't sound right to me.

And therein lies the problem. I guess it’s the same kind of people who let their small children run around restaurants.

 

[BeachSky]

Oh my! When he videos through the open window on deck 11, it is so high!

And it helps you realize how far OUT the open window the top of his body was in the ship evidence video. Where else would the top of his body be? It is past the wall OUT into the open window holding her there IMO.

 

[MaryG12]

For those who have not seen it, here is a tour of the deck/area in question. We arrive outside at 0:31, and can very CLEARLY see which windows are open. (In case anyone actually believed he thought it was closed. lol) Stop at 1:22, and you get a good view out an open window, with the railing in the frame. You can see the distance between the railing and the window. In the leaked video, it's clear he lifted her over the railing and held her on, or outside of the window ledge.

.

So is deck 11 comparable to the 11th floor of a hotel room?

That is really high! And thank you for sharing that video.

 

[MaryG12]

And it helps you realize how far OUT the open window the top of his body was in the ship evidence video. Where else would the top of his body be? It is past the wall OUT into the open window holding her there IMO.

Precisely why I said, I am very surprised he did not fall out too.

There is just so much wrong with this...

 

[SouthAussie]

Precisely why I said, I am very surprised he did not fall out too.

There is just so much wrong with this...

Fortunately - for him - that height of 42" above deck for the safety rail has been mandated as the best height to stop man overboard situations.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

IMO he’s already told us how he will explain it per his interview with David Begnaud... “the glass was further out than I expected”. He reasonably [sarcasm] believed that particular window to be an aquarium bubble with that particular piece of glass farther out than all the others. Time 2:54...

I dare say we’re being prepped for a “depth perception issues” defense (as others have suggested)! Let’s add it to the list of the many other ailments grandpa claims to have which would make one question why he was tasked with watching a toddler in the first place.

Interesting...if colorblind doesn't work, add in depth perception. Thanks for reposting this original GMA interview.

At 2:50 where he states "I had her, and I was trying to knock on the glass and at that point, I'm like well I'm going to have to lean further for her to be able to reach it, right, 'cause I thought it was further out than I expected ...I think that's the point she slipped out of me".

I'm sure he's been well versed on colorblindness now. Yet isn't color blindness shades that cannot be differentiated and not clear in color. Even a really rare type, you see green as white, not clear.. Heck, I wonder how many times he's walked into/through a sliding glass door in his home, or the many that they have on the ship.

 

[fabvab]

But who lets a baby run around a cruise ship, even if following her? Doesn't sound right to me.

It might have been hot standing by the children’s pool and he might have been ready to get out of sun. Just speculation, but He could have asked her if she wanted to look out the windows and that is why she left the children’s pool and headed that way. Why else would she have left the water area?

 

[MaryG12]

SA is actually not a blood relative, he was a step-grandfather to Chloe. I don't know if he actually has any children.

Thank you for explaining, Mickey2942.

 

[they'll get you]

But who lets a baby run around a cruise ship, even if following her? Doesn't sound right to me.

When I was onboard, for Chloe I sat and studied parents with children, I did not see one toddler unsupervised as all were being held on a hip. In fact I saw parents straddling their children while laying on a deck chair.
There are many people walking and looking around a new environment on the first day and are not looking down for children at foot, their eyes up and around.
Stupidity on all levels until he reached the window and then it became murderous.


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[they'll get you]

And therein lies the problem. I guess it’s the same kind of people who let their small children run around restaurants.

Or bang on glass.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

When I was onboard, for Chloe I sat and studied parents with children, I did not see one toddler unsupervised as all were being held on a hip. In fact I saw parents straddling their children while laying on a deck chair.
There are many people walking and looking around a new environment on the first day and are not looking down for children at foot, their eyes up and around.
Stupidity on all levels until he reached the window and then it became murderous.


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BBM Yes, it did.