Patsy involved = BDI

[fr brown]

I know Patsy used Xanax after the murder but not before, can you let me know the source of this?

She didn't use Xanax after the murder--or at least neither John nor Patsy copped to it. She was on Klonopin and Ativan, as I recall.

June 1998:

"MIKE KANE: What do you know about Mrs. Ramsey having panic attacks?

JOHN RAMSEY: Um, I don't know what a panic attack is, I guess, for sure. How would you -- describe it.

MIKE KANE: Just a feeling that you can't control the moment, overreacting to something maybe more than would be within a normal range. Just feeling, I can't handle the situation.

JOHN RAMSEY: She is as stable as a rock.

MIKE KANE: So you have never known her to have those?

JOHN RAMSEY: (No response).

MIKE KANE: Never known her to be treated for those?

JOHN RAMSEY: No.

MIKE KANE: Never known her to take any medication for those?

JOHN RAMSEY: (Nodding).

MIKE KANE: Would it surprise you to find out that she did?

JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. That would.

MIKE KANE: Did you ever hear the drug Xanax, X-A-N-A-X?

JOHN RAMSEY: (No response).

MIKE KANE: Ever known Ms. Ramsey to take that?

JOHN RAMSEY: No."

 

[FY1234]

She didn't use Xanax after the murder--or at least neither John nor Patsy copped to it. She was on Klonopin and Ativan, as I recall.

June 1998:

"MIKE KANE: What do you know about Mrs. Ramsey having panic attacks?

JOHN RAMSEY: Um, I don't know what a panic attack is, I guess, for sure. How would you -- describe it.

MIKE KANE: Just a feeling that you can't control the moment, overreacting to something maybe more than would be within a normal range. Just feeling, I can't handle the situation.

JOHN RAMSEY: She is as stable as a rock.

MIKE KANE: So you have never known her to have those?

JOHN RAMSEY: (No response).

MIKE KANE: Never known her to be treated for those?

JOHN RAMSEY: No.

MIKE KANE: Never known her to take any medication for those?

JOHN RAMSEY: (Nodding).

MIKE KANE: Would it surprise you to find out that she did?

JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. That would.

MIKE KANE: Did you ever hear the drug Xanax, X-A-N-A-X?

JOHN RAMSEY: (No response).

MIKE KANE: Ever known Ms. Ramsey to take that?

JOHN RAMSEY: No."

Oh I see but it is unclear whether they are talking about before or after the murder here.

 

[archieil]

In another place John says that either he or Patsy handed French the note at the front door. That wouldn't help explain why their fingerprints weren't on it. French is clear that the note was by the patio door when he first saw it.

fingerprints = fat (dirt) from the skin

or opposite thing = remaining of the dirt not glued to fingers

answer yourself

I assume modern high tech equipment have no problems in finding evidence on these papers. It is more a matter of sorting an evidence than finding it.

 

[Cottonstar]

In another place John says that either he or Patsy handed French the note at the front door. That wouldn't help explain why their fingerprints weren't on it. French is clear that the note was by the patio door when he first saw it.

Sure, because they had time to realize their mistakes and what looked good and what didn’t. At some point after getting the police reports and a copy of their original statements from the DA office before their first interview, they realized how ridiculous it was for them not to of had the note in hand and giving it to French at the door. So, subsequently JR says in his first interview, “either Patsy or I, handed the note to French when he arrived.”
A complete lie that muddies the water.

 

[Cottonstar]

Families often go to great lengths to cover up behavior problems, and are often in denial about mental illness.

Very true. Especially when children are involved.

 

[FY1234]

She didn't use Xanax after the murder--or at least neither John nor Patsy copped to it. She was on Klonopin and Ativan, as I recall.

June 1998:

"MIKE KANE: What do you know about Mrs. Ramsey having panic attacks?

JOHN RAMSEY: Um, I don't know what a panic attack is, I guess, for sure. How would you -- describe it.

MIKE KANE: Just a feeling that you can't control the moment, overreacting to something maybe more than would be within a normal range. Just feeling, I can't handle the situation.

JOHN RAMSEY: She is as stable as a rock.

MIKE KANE: So you have never known her to have those?

JOHN RAMSEY: (No response).

MIKE KANE: Never known her to be treated for those?

JOHN RAMSEY: No.

MIKE KANE: Never known her to take any medication for those?

JOHN RAMSEY: (Nodding).

MIKE KANE: Would it surprise you to find out that she did?

JOHN RAMSEY: Yeah. That would.

MIKE KANE: Did you ever hear the drug Xanax, X-A-N-A-X?

JOHN RAMSEY: (No response).

MIKE KANE: Ever known Ms. Ramsey to take that?

JOHN RAMSEY: No."

I did some digging and this is from another interview:
1998

MIKE KANE: Any other medications along that line that she's taking?

JOHN RAMSEY: No, I don't think --

MIKE KANE: Not now?

JOHN RAMSEY: Well, earlier on, we also took, it was like, I could never have been a doctor.

MIKE KANE: Xanax?

JOHN RAMSEY: No. Klonopin.

MIKE KANE: Klonopin?

JOHN RAMSEY: Klonopin. And that was kind of on an as needed basis for a while. It was kind of a quick, picker upper, I guess.

And from another interview in 1998


6 TOM HANEY: Okay. And are you
7 taking any medication?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
9 TOM HANEY: And what are you
10 taking?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: I take 30 milligrams
12 of Prozac a day, and Ativan, half a milligram as
13 needed.
14 TOM HANEY: When is the last time
15 you took either/or both of these?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: I took 20 milligrams
17 of Prozac this morning and I will take ten this
18 evening. And I took Ativan, half a milligram of
19 Ativan.
[…]23 So actually, Barbara Fernie picked
24 me up one day from where we were staying and I
25 started having a panic attack, hyperventilating
0134
1 and all that stuff, and she was taking me to the
2 doctor at that time, I had a bronchial
3 infection, by the time I got to the doctor's
4 office I was in a full-blown panic attack, this
5 was in January or so.
6 TOM HANEY: In '97?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum. So the
8 physician in Boulder made a call to Rebecca
9 Barnes -- Barnhill -- Barnhill, Burkhardt,
10 Barnhill, Burkhardt.
11 VOICE: You still don't have it
12 right.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Barkhorn, Rebecca
14 Barkhorn, there are so many Burkes and Barkes in
15 my life, Barkhorn, and I saw her that day. And
16 she put me on Paxil, an antidepressant, and
17 Ativan, anxiety kind of attack, and she
18 explained to me basically what was happening.
19 That I had been through this traumatic thing, it
20 was perfectly normal, and yes, this can be
21 managed by medication. So I saw her quite
22 regularly. Like every day for many days.
23 TOM HANEY: These panic attacks
24 that you mentioned, was that the first time that
25 you had suffered through one of those or had you
0135
1 had those prior?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: I had had one one
3 other time, when I was in Boulder Community
4 Hospital in the cancer clinic. And it was about
5 midway through my chemo session, my nine-month
6 session, and I guess all of sudden it just kind
7 of came crashing in as to what was really
8 happening. And I started trembling and shaking.
9 The numbness in my lips.

There is no indication that Patsy was taking Xanax before the murder.

 

[UKGuy]

I did some digging and this is from another interview:
1998

MIKE KANE: Any other medications along that line that she's taking?

JOHN RAMSEY: No, I don't think --

MIKE KANE: Not now?

JOHN RAMSEY: Well, earlier on, we also took, it was like, I could never have been a doctor.

MIKE KANE: Xanax?

JOHN RAMSEY: No. Klonopin.

MIKE KANE: Klonopin?

JOHN RAMSEY: Klonopin. And that was kind of on an as needed basis for a while. It was kind of a quick, picker upper, I guess.

And from another interview in 1998


6 TOM HANEY: Okay. And are you
7 taking any medication?
8 PATSY RAMSEY: Yes.
9 TOM HANEY: And what are you
10 taking?
11 PATSY RAMSEY: I take 30 milligrams
12 of Prozac a day, and Ativan, half a milligram as
13 needed.
14 TOM HANEY: When is the last time
15 you took either/or both of these?
16 PATSY RAMSEY: I took 20 milligrams
17 of Prozac this morning and I will take ten this
18 evening. And I took Ativan, half a milligram of
19 Ativan.
[…]23 So actually, Barbara Fernie picked
24 me up one day from where we were staying and I
25 started having a panic attack, hyperventilating
0134
1 and all that stuff, and she was taking me to the
2 doctor at that time, I had a bronchial
3 infection, by the time I got to the doctor's
4 office I was in a full-blown panic attack, this
5 was in January or so.
6 TOM HANEY: In '97?
7 PATSY RAMSEY: Uh-hum. So the
8 physician in Boulder made a call to Rebecca
9 Barnes -- Barnhill -- Barnhill, Burkhardt,
10 Barnhill, Burkhardt.
11 VOICE: You still don't have it
12 right.
13 PATSY RAMSEY: Barkhorn, Rebecca
14 Barkhorn, there are so many Burkes and Barkes in
15 my life, Barkhorn, and I saw her that day. And
16 she put me on Paxil, an antidepressant, and
17 Ativan, anxiety kind of attack, and she
18 explained to me basically what was happening.
19 That I had been through this traumatic thing, it
20 was perfectly normal, and yes, this can be
21 managed by medication. So I saw her quite
22 regularly. Like every day for many days.
23 TOM HANEY: These panic attacks
24 that you mentioned, was that the first time that
25 you had suffered through one of those or had you
0135
1 had those prior?
2 PATSY RAMSEY: I had had one one
3 other time, when I was in Boulder Community
4 Hospital in the cancer clinic. And it was about
5 midway through my chemo session, my nine-month
6 session, and I guess all of sudden it just kind
7 of came crashing in as to what was really
8 happening. And I started trembling and shaking.
9 The numbness in my lips.

There is no indication that Patsy was taking Xanax before the murder.

FY1234,
If Patsy was taking Xanax after the murder then Haney's only concern might be if Patsy uses this at a later date to say she was out of it during the interview, so its null and void?

Otherwise Haney might knew from another source that Patsy was on Xanax at some point, and its not the Xanax he is fishing for its why Patsy was prescribed it. She, allegedly was under psychiatric care of some kind, in the years leading up to JonBenet's death.

If you add in that JonBenet was also seeing a therapist in the weeks prior to Christmas then either the Ramsey household were simply paying for regular weekly chats or there was stuff going on?

I was taking a look at the Radar Photographs as they are so clear and it struck me that the contusion on the right side of JonBenet's face, close to her ear, looks as if someone whacked her with something? Her cranial injury was on the same side, e.g. The Right Temporoparietal Area Extending from The Orbital Ridge, Posteriorly All The way To The Occipital Area., see Autopsy Report.

Basically someone went postal on JonBenet beating her about the head with some blunt instrument !

.

 

[neednewhobbie]

" I'm the mother.. Oh My God!" When re-listening to patsy's 911 call; it struck me that this is the phrase where Patsy sounds the most genuine - Is this because she is coming to terms with the fact that yes indeed she is the mother, the mother of the person responsible for what happened to JonBenet? If the rest of the call is fake like we believe, this phrase is true and thus sounds true!

 

[10ofRods]

Psychiatrists do not generally book people for "chats," so I think something was going on. From my perspective, there were a series of tells about the Ramsey family's general state of well-being. Three of them were in psychiatric care, as I understand it. When 3 members of a family are under psychiatric care, a lot of psychiatrists would recommend family counseling as an adjunct treatment.

Families sometimes choose a member to be the "troubled one" - sometimes they choose 2 members. But if both of the kids are on the "having troubles" list, that really does warrant at least a few sessions with a child or family therapist. Somehow, I don't think John Ramsey would go for it.

 

[sloane7777]

FY1234,
If Patsy was taking Xanax after the murder then Haney's only concern might be if Patsy uses this at a later date to say she was out of it during the interview, so its null and void?

Otherwise Haney might knew from another source that Patsy was on Xanax at some point, and its not the Xanax he is fishing for its why Patsy was prescribed it. She, allegedly was under psychiatric care of some kind, in the years leading up to JonBenet's death.

If you add in that JonBenet was also seeing a therapist in the weeks prior to Christmas then either the Ramsey household were simply paying for regular weekly chats or there was stuff going on?

I was taking a look at the Radar Photographs as they are so clear and it struck me that the contusion on the right side of JonBenet's face, close to her ear, looks as if someone whacked her with something? Her cranial injury was on the same side, e.g. The Right Temporoparietal Area Extending from The Orbital Ridge, Posteriorly All The way To The Occipital Area., see Autopsy Report.

Basically someone went postal on JonBenet beating her about the head with some blunt instrument !

.

I have this overwhelming urge not to be politically correct my next door neighbor beat the snot out of me with a plastic bat when I was about 7 because I picked the heads off his moms daffodils (I know what was I thinking ) and I remember My GM saying "kids will be kids "
every time I see that smirky face that I think Did it , that same line runs thru my head "kids will be kids ".

 

[UKGuy]

I have this overwhelming urge not to be politically correct my next door neighbor beat the snot out of me with a plastic bat when I was about 7 because I picked the heads off his moms daffodils (I know what was I thinking ) and I remember My GM saying "kids will be kids "
every time I see that smirky face that I think Did it , that same line runs thru my head "kids will be kids ".

sloane7777,

Yes, these things happen. Similar thing happened to me as a child when a neighbor collared me for walking on his vegetable patch.

The thing about Burke's appearance on Dr Phil was the way he came over due to media inexperience and/or nerves, or is there more to it?

I think the latter due to what he said, i.e. he never had the savvy to show any empathy for JonBenet, he emphasized how JonBenet flaunted herself at the pageants, and ran us through a possible intruder link with the pageants, whilst smiling to the cameras.

Still this is him today , he seems intelligent, personable, has a good job working in IT. So possibly he has moved on?

I reckon he is under his father's and Lin Wood's influence regrading public appearances etc. You never see him anywhere, no quotes, nothing. He obviously lives in a gated environment. Once his father passes on I suspect Burke will take the opportunity to tell his side of the story?

.

 

[reedus23]

I reckon he is under his father's and Lin Wood's influence regrading public appearances etc. You never see him anywhere, no quotes, nothing. He obviously lives in a gated environment. Once his father passes on I suspect Burke will take the opportunity to tell his side of the story?

.

And I suspect that when he doesn't speak at all after his father passes, some will use that as further evidence of guilty.

 

[UKGuy]

And I suspect that when he doesn't speak at all after his father passes, some will use that as further evidence of guilty.

reedus23,
Sure, stuff like that happens all the time, just think IDI and foreign dna.

Once his father has passed on Burke will be free to construct his own version of events. Your points about confirmation bias apply just as well to Burke as to the rest of us.

Consider JR he is a millionaire yet he is never off the media promoting his JonBenet agenda. Burke is a millionaire but he has never been free to talk openly. He has had a host of experts advising him, e.g. Lin Wood, his Father, Dr Phil, etc with disastrous results.

I reckon Burke will want to do the talk shows, etc. He cannot lose since he will be the only suspect left and the case will never go to court.

.

 

[reedus23]

reedus23,
Sure, stuff like that happens all the time, just think IDI and foreign dna.

Once his father has passed on Burke will be free to construct his own version of events. Your points about confirmation bias apply just as well to Burke as to the rest of us.

Consider JR he is a millionaire yet he is never off the media promoting his JonBenet agenda. Burke is a millionaire but he has never been free to talk openly. He has had a host of experts advising him, e.g. Lin Wood, his Father, Dr Phil, etc with disastrous results.

I reckon Burke will want to do the talk shows, etc. He cannot lose since he will be the only suspect left and the case will never go to court.

.

Ok, educate me. What disastrous results? If he did it, well he's never been charged with anything. Pretty good results if you're HIS advocate (attorney/dad/etc.). If he didn't do it, I doubt anything he would have said would have stopped people from writing books and making documentaries saying he did do it, so his lack of talking openly didn't create that disastrous result IF HE DIDN'T DO IT.

We'll see if he talks, but I would advise him against it. And that's whether he's involved or not involved. Put it this way...if he didn't do it, there is not a single thing he can say that will change the minds of people that think he is involved. If he did do it, well it would be plain stupid to talk more about it.

 

[10ofRods]

sloane7777,

Yes, these things happen. Similar thing happened to me as a child when a neighbor collared me for walking on his vegetable patch.

The thing about Burke's appearance on Dr Phil was the way he came over due to media inexperience and/or nerves, or is there more to it?

I think the latter due to what he said, i.e. he never had the savvy to show any empathy for JonBenet, he emphasized how JonBenet flaunted herself at the pageants, and ran us through a possible intruder link with the pageants, whilst smiling to the cameras.

Still this is him today , he seems intelligent, personable, has a good job working in IT. So possibly he has moved on?

I reckon he is under his father's and Lin Wood's influence regrading public appearances etc. You never see him anywhere, no quotes, nothing. He obviously lives in a gated environment. Once his father passes on I suspect Burke will take the opportunity to tell his side of the story?

.

He seems fairly intelligent (probably not developmentally delayed, intellectually), socially awkward in a major way, not personable but socially awkward, has a reasonably good job. His father says he's moved (and he himself said he was moving on back in, what, 1997?) John Ramsey says his son has received lots of help and got the job "on his own" (because naturally, as a Ramsey, strings could have been pulled).

Of course he's under his attorney's wing/coaching (Lin Wood). Lawsuit on his behalf was filed by Lin and in Michigan (instead of where Burke actually lives). The entire family has virtually no internet presence and there are some pictures that have been scrubbed out of existence (along with facts about John Ramsey that have been taken down from such places as ancestry.com).

Will Burke talk after his father dies? I doubt it. If he says anything that makes it clear that he, himself, knew more or was part of any cover-up, he could be sued by CBS because that case hinged on whether there was any evidence at all that Burke was involved (it was settled out of court, because Lin would never let Burke go through extensive depositions under oath - and John would have had to be deposed yet again; other people could have been brought in and who knows what records subpoenaed).

But lots of other people will come forward after John dies, because no one can sue on his behalf for libel after he's dead.

Not speaking after John's death would be, IMO, more closely related to wanting to keep both his own and John's settlements from lawsuits. If Burke says John is guilty, then John's estate will be sued for the money it won in various civil cases. I suspect Burke would like to have that money (and the house in Michigan).

Is there more to Burke's demeanor? I think so.

 

[UKGuy]

He seems fairly intelligent (probably not developmentally delayed, intellectually), socially awkward in a major way, not personable but socially awkward, has a reasonably good job. His father says he's moved (and he himself said he was moving on back in, what, 1997?) John Ramsey says his son has received lots of help and got the job "on his own" (because naturally, as a Ramsey, strings could have been pulled).

Of course he's under his attorney's wing/coaching (Lin Wood). Lawsuit on his behalf was filed by Lin and in Michigan (instead of where Burke actually lives). The entire family has virtually no internet presence and there are some pictures that have been scrubbed out of existence (along with facts about John Ramsey that have been taken down from such places as ancestry.com).

Will Burke talk after his father dies? I doubt it. If he says anything that makes it clear that he, himself, knew more or was part of any cover-up, he could be sued by CBS because that case hinged on whether there was any evidence at all that Burke was involved (it was settled out of court, because Lin would never let Burke go through extensive depositions under oath - and John would have had to be deposed yet again; other people could have been brought in and who knows what records subpoenaed).

But lots of other people will come forward after John dies, because no one can sue on his behalf for libel after he's dead.

Not speaking after John's death would be, IMO, more closely related to wanting to keep both his own and John's settlements from lawsuits. If Burke says John is guilty, then John's estate will be sued for the money it won in various civil cases. I suspect Burke would like to have that money (and the house in Michigan).

Is there more to Burke's demeanor? I think so.

10ofRods,
Burke can control the agenda on any talk show, e.g. no questions that conflict with any litigation settlement. All the media outlets knows this, and how to get round the restrictions with cute phrases.

It could be Burke is happy with remaining fairly anonymous, but he has never been able to tell his back story, he might want to, he has the rest of his life to go?

Unless John writes Burke out of his will he should inherit something, just depends on what John's wife wants? This is going to be one aspect of the Ramsey story that will play out in public. Burke might even go to court for a legal decision?

So what will folks conclude if Burke is given a minimal inheritance and John's wife a maximum inheritance?

This is a case with legs, really long ones at that.

.

 

[UKGuy]

Ok, educate me. What disastrous results? If he did it, well he's never been charged with anything. Pretty good results if you're HIS advocate (attorney/dad/etc.). If he didn't do it, I doubt anything he would have said would have stopped people from writing books and making documentaries saying he did do it, so his lack of talking openly didn't create that disastrous result IF HE DIDN'T DO IT.

We'll see if he talks, but I would advise him against it. And that's whether he's involved or not involved. Put it this way...if he didn't do it, there is not a single thing he can say that will change the minds of people that think he is involved. If he did do it, well it would be plain stupid to talk more about it.

reedus23,
Have you seen the BR interviews, they are all mostly a disaster, particularly his Dr Phil appearance. It was so negative Dr Phil had to broadcast an unscheduled third part explaining why Burke came over so badly.

Get this Dr Phil is an expert in giving people a PR makeover, this is where he makes his money, but with Burke Ramsey: big failure, so bad he had to make on the air excuses that did not seem credible.

We'll see if he talks, but I would advise him against it. And that's whether he's involved or not involved. Put it this way...if he didn't do it, there is not a single thing he can say that will change the minds of people that think he is involved. If he did do it, well it would be plain stupid to talk more about it.

Once John leaves us Burke might want to influence the minds of people around him, he knows he can never sway the BDI proponents, they will just represent crazy people voicing conspiracy theories, just like John Ramsey Burke might want to educate everyone else so that they are not misinformed by all the JonBenet media hype?

.

 

[sloane7777]

he was 9 years old ...If he was the perp can he be held accountable at all ? Once John has passed can anyone be held accountable ? I'm interested what y'all think ? If all the planets aligned and dad passed and Junior there says " think Id better get this off my chest " What would or could actually happen?

 

[Angleterre]

The crime scene has always bothered me. It’s both too much and too little.

The rambling ransom note, the staging of the body, and John’s dramatic finding of the body is too much. These things all run contrary to what they’re attempting to prove; an intruder broke into the Ramsey house to kill JonBenet Ramsey.

However, there’s clearly not enough evidence to show that someone broke in. All of the doors and windows, besides the infamous basement window, were locked. The window that was broken still had spider webs in the corners that were undisturbed. There’s no clues pointing to forceable entry that make much sense.

All of this makes me 100% believe this is a staged scene, and it was staged by a person or persons who didn’t anticipate in advance that they’d need to do so. If the person who staged the scene had expected this, I would have to think they’d have been more convincing and thorough. There was even a book on John’s nightstand that could have aided them.

I can only imagine the panic they were under getting this all together. But I definitely believe a person other than killer did the staging and that they were completely unprepared.

One of the most proven things that I have learned and personally experienced time and time again in my 30 years as a Detective of varying ranks is this :
Too much written detail is tantamount to having a sign around your neck saying “It was me / I’m guilty “!
Every investigation that I have undertaken irrespective of what the crime was ( albeit it’s more obvious with crimes of fraud or crimes spanning many years ), I have experienced and subsequently evidenced that the more detailed the account and / or the written statement, the more it ties them ( the author/writer) in and proved their guilt without exception.
Too many details is not conducive to a good cover up and actually works the opposite way in that it gives Detectives more to work on and break down in micro detail.
Ergo the 3 page ransom note. Never has a ransom note been offered whereby it contained more than a few lines of text / instructions at most ( in all my experience and having canvassed many colleagues, theirs too). And whilst that is not a precursor of guilt per se, it’s extremely important and psychologically telling in terms of advocating guilt and cannot be dismissed ( albeit circumstantial evidence until it’s broken down and evidentially proven otherwise).
The moment that ransom note was written, 3 pages on notepaper belonging to the Ramsey family and alluding to the bonus money due to JR and being almost identical to the handwriting of PR with indentation of other writing done in PRs (admitted) handwriting on other pages of the same notepad, as far as I am concerned, that sealed their fate
All MOO

 

[Rain on my Parade]

And I suspect that when he doesn't speak at all after his father passes, some will use that as further evidence of guilty.

Let’s hope! But why, isn’t he set in life with all his lawsuits?