IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #5

[SouthAussie]

Just wondering if any of our Puerto Rican/Spanish speaking members are able to translate what La Comay is saying at this point in the video please? (Around the 11:52 mark)

I think that the red arrow is pointing at someone else - SA and Chloe seem to be at the window at the time.



Video shows heartbreaking moment grandfather lifts tot girl to window aboard cruise ship before she falls 150 feet to her death

 

[LietKynes]

That "explanation" is such crap. "“I bent down by her. We always, like, whenever you’re at hockey games, we would bang on the glass, and it was fun, you know,” Anello said in an exclusive interview with CBS News. “So, when I knelt down to be with her at that level, I couldn’t reach the glass really, only with my fingertips so I knew she couldn’t. So that’s when I decided I’d pick her up. So, I was trying to stand her on the railing, and it happened in seconds.”
‘It’s like the glass disappeared’: Grandfather recounts toddler falling to her death from cruise ship I hope they pick apart each and every senseless, contradictory, changed and lying statement he has made in the court case.

Ooohhh... the glass "...disappeared..."
I forgot about that one.

Winkleman and his new bestie, S.A., need to wear flame-retardant pants. B/c, you know.

 

[LietKynes]

I get your point but how could any adult human being hold a child out an 11 story window as just playing around? It’s so extreme. I can see a careless person allowing a toddler to walk on the top of the back of a couch and then fall but 11 stories up? That doesn’t make one ounce of sense. Not one. Then after the fact none of the family members seem that broken up about her. This was a nightmare and how her mom went on tv two weeks later and was able to be composed is beyond me. The horrific death and losing your baby? That combination would have me depressed for a very long time. Yet they were able to get s lawsuit going ASAP? They had a huge life insurance policy on her? I know everyone is different but I’ve seen people grieve longer from a miscarriage. My personal opinion.

bbm

That is indeed puzzling.

 

[IceIce9]

I get your point but how could any adult human being hold a child out an 11 story window as just playing around? It’s so extreme. I can see a careless person allowing a toddler to walk on the top of the back of a couch and then fall but 11 stories up? That doesn’t make one ounce of sense. Not one. Then after the fact none of the family members seem that broken up about her. This was a nightmare and how her mom went on tv two weeks later and was able to be composed is beyond me. The horrific death and losing your baby? That combination would have me depressed for a very long time. Yet they were able to get s lawsuit going ASAP? They had a huge life insurance policy on her? I know everyone is different but I’ve seen people grieve longer from a miscarriage. My personal opinion.

No wonder our collective hinky meters have been going off MOO.

Even more so after viewing the video.

 

[Safeguard]

Ooohhh... the glass "...disappeared..."
I forgot about that one.

Winkleman and his new bestie, S.A., need to wear flame-retardant pants. B/c, you know.

Maybe it was magic glass! Seeing as how he was also able to put his head right through it before it had even "disappeared"!

 

[jeena]

Right? I never believed for one second that he thought that window was closed. Even before I saw him enjoying the view out of it with my own two eyes.

I always felt sure he was letting Chloe look
outside. There was just no other reason he
picked the child up to my mind.



Thats what he first told PR authorities, that's what makes the most sense and that's what he does before he even picks Chloe up, he leans out and takes in the view.

I am curious to see what they come up with now that no one believes the hockey glass lie anymore. It will be interesting to see how they contort themselves trying to wriggle out of this now that they've lost control of the narrative.

If SA's intent was to have CW bang on glass, why didn't he move to a closed window after bending over his window and seeing it was open?

 

[neesaki]

But why would he murder Chloe?

We don’t know. That is what we need to find out.

 

[Lilibet]

If SA's intent was to have CW bang on glass, why didn't he move to a closed window after bending over his window and seeing it was open?

Your question is spot on. It’s really hard to understand why an attorney would continue to promote the “banging on glass” excuse after the video was released. Or has he? He’s been awfully quiet lately methinks.

 

[neesaki]

DBM

 

[jeena]

Winkleman said it was "kind of an optical illusion" but SA had his other senses to feel a breeze from the open window, hear noises from the dock, etc.

I was in an "optical illusion" car accident last year. I was waiting for the right lane of traffic to clear so I could enter, when all of a sudden a white SUV stops (nice gesture) and hand signals me to enter the lane. I enter the lane making a right turn and hit a white car in the right wheel well with my left bumper. What I think happened is (I'm still not sure) the white car (Volks. Golf) I hit was next to the white SUV that stopped. It appeared to me in the sun glare that one white vehicle was there, not two, so while the Golf was on the move in the narrowed left lane I never saw it coming and hit it while entering the right lane. Lesson learned, if a driver stops and signals me to get in a lane, I don't go. Luckily my SUV only got a few scratches.

 

[neesaki]

It happens. It is extreme. Some people are stupid risk-takers. Michael Jackson held his baby son “Blanket” over a balcony railing to “show him” to the crowds below. He was “only” three stories up and he got slammed for it. But if he had dropped him it would have been unintentional (negligent homicide) and not intentional (murder).

Photo at link
BBC NEWS | Entertainment | Jackson: Baby stunt was 'mistake'

I totally agree with you Lilibet. But then again, there’s a huge difference in three floors versus eleven? And, did you witness this man ? How he surveilled and examined the dock below? That is beyond scary as far as I’m concerned. Even compared to Michael Jackson, this man, has much more serious Issues. IMO

 

[cobalt sky]

Your question is spot on. It’s really hard to understand why an attorney would continue to promote the “banging on glass” excuse after the video was released. Or has he? He’s been awfully quiet lately methinks.

Yes it is hard to understand why any attorney would choose that avenue, unless the thought was to present him as a man with good intentions but dumber than a box of rocks, in the hopes that people will think "oh he seems like a nice old man but kind of dimwitted, I'm sure he meant her no harm, he will have to live with this the rest of his life which is punishment enough!!"

I'm telling you, it will really burn my biscuits if he does not end up doing any time for this. There is a huge difference between what happened and, for example, a toddler sprinting away from a caregiver and climbing in through a window and falling to her death. It is clear on the video footage that he knew the window was open as evidenced by his entire torso bending in half as he looked through it. And he himself physically lifted her up into the window!

Another scenario to put it into perspective: It's like a grandfather inadvertently falling asleep on the sofa while watching his toddler granddaughter and she escapes out the door and ends up drowning in a swimming pool in the backyard. Compare that to grandpa getting down and sticking his entire upper torso in the pool until it is submerged in the water, then picking his granddaughter up and literally placing her in the water. Then acting surprised when she sinks to the bottom and drowns. Then claims he had no idea there was any water in the pool because his colorblindness didn't allow him to see it. Then sues the people who installed the pool.

 

[Lilibet]

I totally agree with you Lilibet. But then again, there’s a huge difference in three floors versus eleven? And, did you witness this man ? How he surveilled and examined the dock below? That is beyond scary as far as I’m concerned. Even compared to Michael Jackson, this man, has much more serious Issues. IMO

Yes, I watched the videos too many times! I just can’t make the leap you’re making to a nefarious, intentional act. Intention is what makes it murder and I don’t see that, whether it was Michael Jackson at a potentially lethal three floors up or SA at eleven floors up. Both men certainly had/have serious issues. In both cases they exhibited depraved indifference to a child’s life and safety, which is way beyond the bounds of normal behavior.

I question their judgement and decision-making ability. But I don’t see intention, even when SA leaned out the window and looked down. Curiosity, yes. The action itself is impulsive and odd. Pretending he thought the window was closed is weird. After Chloe’s death you can try to connect it, but I can’t make looking down at the dock indicative of an intentional thought process of “What a great place to drop Chloe and kill her.” I see someone impulsively trying to give Chloe a “thrill” flying high or scare her for “fun.” He took an insane risk and it killed her...negligent homicide, which is unintentional.

But you’re certainly entitled to your opinion, and LE may bring forth evidence that it was intentional and therefore murder. They don’t need to supply a motive, of course. But I’ll wait and see for now.
JMO

 

[TDoc72]

Just wondering if any of our Puerto Rican/Spanish speaking members are able to translate what La Comay is saying at this point in the video please? (Around the 11:52 mark)

I think that the red arrow is pointing at someone else - SA and Chloe seem to be at the window at the time.

View attachment 222621

Video shows heartbreaking moment grandfather lifts tot girl to window aboard cruise ship before she falls 150 feet to her death

I wondered about that too. La Comay seems to spend some time pointing to that group of people at that table.

 

[MsMarple]

I’ve been wondering about that, did he contact the family or vice versa? I actually thought it was illegal for attorneys to contact potential clients, or does this vary from state to state? TIA

I'd be very surprised if Winkleman contacted the family; not only is ambulance chasing or using runners against Florida law but using a third party such as a taxi driver or hotel concierge or even a funeral home director is not allowed.

Yes, it happens and yes many lawyers get disbarred for doing so but remember, Winkleman is part of a larger law firm and it's unlikely he or his partners would risk a profitable business over one case. That would end his income. Florida Bar Rules 4.7 covers what's legal and what's not. JMOO of course.

I’m sure the glass is strong but I wouldn’t allow my child to bang on glass at that level.
View attachment 222590

“So, when I knelt down to be with her at that level, I couldn’t reach the glass really, only with my fingertips so I knew she couldn’t.”

I call rubbish when SA said Chloe couldn’t reach the glass.
The windows are at a slight outward angle and she could’ve touched them easily.
She was safe down at that level.

See, that's what I don't get. Looking at your picture (by the way thank you for taking pics!) I don't see how it's possible that neither Chloe nor SA could reach the bottom glass as he claimed. It makes no sense. I see no barrier to the glass. SA doesn't appear to have short little Tyrannosaurus arms or anything.

 

[mickey2942]

If we think that the video is a slam dunk for evidence against SA in the Negligent Homicide charge, I wonder how many witnesses the prosecution has lined up....

1. Folks on the ship who saw the incident.
2. Safety experts to discuss the safety of the guardrails, windows
3. RCCL, with their "Passenger Information" booklets, about not using rails to hold children... (not that I ever even saw SA balance Chloe on the rail).
4. This has been big news, I wonder if there are any folks who know SA, and saw him do dumb stuff, mean things to kids...whatever, if they have come forward.

If SA doesn't take a plea, the trial should be interesting. I doubt that SA would help himself if he testified...don't do it!

 

[Lilibet]

I'd be very surprised if Winkleman contacted the family; not only is ambulance chasing or using runners against Florida law but using a third party such as a taxi driver or hotel concierge or even a funeral home director is not allowed.

Yes, it happens and yes many lawyers get disbarred for doing so but remember, Winkleman is part of a larger law firm and it's unlikely he or his partners would risk a profitable business over one case. That would end his income. Florida Bar Rules 4.7 covers what's legal and what's not. JMOO of course.

I just hate to think that the Wiegands were the ones to reach out to Winkleman in the days after Chloe’s tragic death. I didn’t have time to look through the 167 pages you posted, but here’s what I found regarding Florida law on attorneys texting potential clients (as I hypothesized earlier based on ABA Rules). Of course, he would have had to acquire a phone number somehow, but there are ways....

In 2015, the Florida Bar Standing Committee on Advertising decided that texting potential clients was a forbidden form of solicitation similar to telephone solicitation. However, later that year, the Florida Bar board of governors overruled that decision and stated that lawyers could send such messages to prospective clients, as long as they complied with the advertising rules for written and email communications.

“These [rules in Florida] are onerous, requiring the text to include attorney qualifications, disclosures about how the lawyer obtained the contact information, and a statement that the individual should delete the message if they have counsel already,” says Murphy of Wake Forest.

Can lawyers text potential clients?

I guess how the contact was made will remain a mystery, but I’d rather blame Winkleman the hustler.

 

[Chikkamma]

Just wondering if any of our Puerto Rican/Spanish speaking members are able to translate what La Comay is saying at this point in the video please? (Around the 11:52 mark)

I think that the red arrow is pointing at someone else - SA and Chloe seem to be at the window at the time.

View attachment 222621

Video shows heartbreaking moment grandfather lifts tot girl to window aboard cruise ship before she falls 150 feet to her death

I believe that is when the hosts rewinded the video a bit to illustrate how Chloe was walking to the window with SA following behind her. Behind the red arrow is SA. Hosts were not commenting about that group of people the arrow seems to linger on. Hope that helps.

 

[SouthAussie]

It is a bit confusing though. Which video was released first? The one shown by Winkleman or the one shown on PR TV?


Dec 18th:
In a statement, the Wiegand family said: "The family is shocked by the deplorable and disgraceful misconduct that led to the release of this footage.
The family's sole motivation for not releasing the video was to protect their older child. That motivation has not changed. The family publicly asks the Puerto Rican authorities, why was this footage released?
CCTV Of Little Girl's Cruise Ship Death Leaked

Dec 18th:
Editor's note: The Wiegand family's attorney allowed an IndyStar reporter and senior editor to review the Royal Caribbean surveillance footage that shows toddler Chloe Wiegand's fall. IndyStar has not obtained a copy of the video, nor is it being published on our platforms.
Chloe Wiegand death: Video viewed by IndyStar shows final moments before cruise ship fall

Just answering my own question above ....

CBS was reported to have seen Winkleman's version of the video as early as Tues November 26th.

Grandfather cries as he recounts toddler falling to her death from a cruise ship

La Comay posted the video of the incident on Tues December 17th - 3 weeks later.



Not that this has any real meaning at the moment, aside from demonstrating that PR likely grew sick and tired of their charges against SA being questioned - considering that period was a time of plentiful press coverage.

 

[neesaki]

DBM