IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #5

[LietKynes]

The Wiegands were not witnesses to the "accident", just as anyone else who has viewed the video cannot be considered "witnesses".

The Wiegands' press tour and lawsuit concerns the window design, not what Anello did. He has already admitted that he set Chloe on the railing, so they know that, without viewing the video.

MOO

bbm
This post is not in response to your comment; but rather the ones who are perpetuating the myth of the 'faulty ship that needs to be fixed'.

There was and still is nothing wrong with the window design.
The Wiegand's know this , of course.

S.A. has never admitted that he placed the baby on the narrow edge of the window.
When he said railing, he was lying -- as the video shows that she wasn't put on the inner wooden railing but the thin metal track that the window pane slides along when opened.
Then he holds and/or dangles her outside the window.
Before he drops her.
Horrific.

 

[jeena]

Wouldn’t his reason to lie be that he thinks “colorblindness” could be a plausible reason he thought the window was closed - he couldn’t see the tinting?

If he was diagnosed before this, that will be easily proven.

Then SA will need today show his colorblindness prevents him from seeing shades of blue green, and dirt and salt spray.

I read that 10% of males suffer some kind of colorblindness. The FOS can hold about 3500 passengers if I remember correctly. Let's say half the passengers are males, so that means out of 1700 male passengers, maybe 170 will be colorblind (not counting females who are colorblind). If SA's colorblind defense gets him acquitted from his negligent homicide charge, doesn't that open the door for colorblind passengers to get away with committing murder by throwing an individual out the window to collect on life insurance or whatever motive they have?

 

[jeena]

There was a previous post regarding sunglasses. I thought it is interesting to note when I wear sunglasses in a casino, screens on some slot machines look like black, blank screens with nothing on them. At first, I thought the slots were malfunctioning or just turned off, and I continued to think this for several hours while staying in the hotel/casino resort. When I finally took my sunglasses off on the slot floor, I was shocked to discover my sunglasses were causing everything on the screen to look blank! Now I wonder if my sunglasses are blocking other things I should be seeing, like electronic road signs, etc, which would be dangerous.

 

[jeena]

bbm
This post is not in response to your comment; but rather the ones who are perpetuating the myth of the 'faulty ship that needs to be fixed'.

There was and still is nothing wrong with the window design.
The Wiegand's know this , of course.

S.A. has never admitted that he placed the baby on the narrow edge of the window.
When he said railing, he was lying -- as the video shows that she wasn't put on the inner wooden railing but the thin metal track that the window pane slides along when opened.
Then he holds and/or dangles her outside the window.
Before he drops her.
Horrific.

It certainly appears the window design is faulty when the newer ship's windows only open four inches. I hope RCCL doesn't get hit with any fault, but the new window design doesn't look good for them, imo.

Anyway, I think I have to disagree with you regarding CW being placed on the window metal track and not the railing, at least when she was standing up. In the behind video, it looks like she is standing very close to SA, in the side video, she can't be seen. In her sitting position I can't tell where she is. Do you think she was on the window track while standing and sitting, or just sitting after SA changed her position?

 

[SuzDuJour]

It doesn’t look like a play area to me. It looks like a bar with adults drinking. I didn’t see any children playing. Just one running around with her grandfather chasing after her.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

I read that 10% of males suffer some kind of colorblindness. The FOS can hold about 3500 passengers if I remember correctly. Let's say half the passengers are males, so that means out of 1700 male passengers, maybe 170 will be colorblind (not counting females who are colorblind). If SA's colorblind defense gets him acquitted from his negligent homicide charge, doesn't that open the door for colorblind passengers to get away with committing murder by throwing an individual out the window to collect on life insurance or whatever motive they have?

Hittin' the nail right on the head, there...square on it. Bullseye.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

There was a previous post regarding sunglasses. I thought it is interesting to note when I wear sunglasses in a casino, screens on some slot machines look like black, blank screens with nothing on them. At first, I thought the slots were malfunctioning or just turned off, and I continued to think this for several hours while staying in the hotel/casino resort. When I finally took my sunglasses off on the slot floor, I was shocked to discover my sunglasses were causing everything on the screen to look blank! Now I wonder if my sunglasses are blocking other things I should be seeing, like electronic road signs, etc, which would be dangerous.

Wow. That could be really dangerous on the road if in fact it filters/blocks other signs. Maybe your lenses have some particular UV filtering technology or other part of the spectrum of light filtering capability.

 

[jeena]

Wow. That could be really dangerous on the road if in fact it filters/blocks other signs. Maybe your lenses have some particular UV filtering technology or other part of the spectrum of light filtering capability.

The sunglasses are prescription from Costco, script written by my opthamologist.

 

[WiseGuy]

Wow. That could be really dangerous on the road if in fact it filters/blocks other signs. Maybe your lenses have some particular UV filtering technology or other part of the spectrum of light filtering capability.

I believe the issue you describe is due to the way polarized sun glasses work, and the way video screens work. I’ve noticed this with my polarized lenses when viewing an iPhone. Try this: wearing polarized glasses, turn your phone 90 degrees. Something about the way the screens work, turning 90 degrees prevents the lenses from filtering out certain wavelengths. But this only applies to polarized lenses and certain types of electronic screens, does not apply to street signs or traffic lights.

 

[Chikkamma]

The Wiegands were not witnesses to the "accident", just as anyone else who has viewed the video cannot be considered "witnesses".

The Wiegands' press tour and lawsuit concerns the window design, not what Anello did. He has already admitted that he set Chloe on the railing, so they know that, without viewing the video.

MOO

The lack of of “window fall prevention measures” was mentioned in the lawsuit, but the Wiegand’s lawsuit also claims RCCL was negligent by not providing enough visible indications to alert passengers when windows are open, which they allege led to this tragedy. SA’s not knowing the window was open is a huge part of their civil suit. For this reason, one might think they would want to see the video to confirm the narrative he told them.

 

[Chikkamma]

Anyway, because the newer ships have windows that open only 4 inches, doesn't that suggest the fully open windows on the older ships are a safety hazard, an accident waiting to happen, therefore the new modification is being implemented? This is what Winks is implying, so how does RCCL defend themselves against that fact?

I have wondered this same thing. It is what Winkelman doesn’t say that I have started to pay attention too.

Winkelman craftily chose his words in the press conference and lawsuit. Notice that he never says “ALL of the new RCCL ships have an updated window design”. This leads me to believe that only some of the newer RCCL ships have implemented a window design- but that other new RCCL vessels still have the same design as Freedom of the Seas.

 

[Safeguard]

Same people on different threads, trying to derail the conversation play the devils advocate. Don't play into her rudeness.

I don't mind people playing 'devils advocate' per say, Lord knows I've knows I've done that a time or two, but for the love of God, at least familiarize yourself with the material being discussed! Don't just jump in and start an irrelevant tantrum!

 

[Forever Young]

The lack of of “window fall prevention measures” was mentioned in the lawsuit, but the Wiegand’s lawsuit also claims RCCL was negligent by not providing enough visible indications to alert passengers when windows are open, which they allege led to this tragedy. SA’s not knowing the window was open is a huge part of their civil suit. For this reason, one might think they would want to see the video to confirm the narrative he told them.

It certainly appears that he knew the window was open, because it seems that he waits for the previous gentleman to move away from it.

SA then goes directly to it, passing by several other available windows. This part is never mentioned in the narratives of the video given. What other reason could he have for wanting that particular window?

JMO, though, the video does nothing to prove that he knew the window was open, or that he himself was able to breach the window opening, or that he held Chloe past that opening.

She was propelled forward by the rocking motion, which he explains as trying to enable her to reach the glass.

ETA: This is why the family is adamant that SA did not drop her. Instead, it is "she fell".

 

[Safeguard]

Remember you always have an ignore list if someone is aggravating you.

Is rather just ignore as I go. Blocking posters can to lead to confusion because you still see replies from those who have not blocked that person (s)
Personally, I find that more annoying than scroll & roll.

 

[KR72]

The lack of of “window fall prevention measures” was mentioned in the lawsuit, but the Wiegand’s lawsuit also claims RCCL was negligent by not providing enough visible indications to alert passengers when windows are open, which they allege led to this tragedy. SA’s not knowing the window was open is a huge part of their civil suit. For this reason, one might think they would want to see the video to confirm the narrative he told them.

So weird to me that SA is carrying on about an open window which is clearly out of reach for a small child (unless a careless adult holds them up to it that is). Walking across a bridge is safe, unless an adult decides to hold a child over the guard and dangle them over it too....I mean, at some point, personal responsibility must come into play. I know it's a cliche, but we can't bubble wrap the entire world. There are things that ARE dangerous and that need to be improved, (and many things have been improved over the years) for safety factors, but an open window that is clearly out of reach for a toddler is not a danger to said toddler.

As far as the newer ships with the windows that only open a few inches goes, (the higher ones, not the lower ones) those are not really to prevent a human from falling are they? I thought they're more to stop people from littering and throwing inanimate objects (not toddlers) from them. The same goes for windows in big high rises. Yes, a low window (floor to ceiling style) is locked or only opened partially for safety of children, but the higher ones are to stop people from throwing stuff down to the street below and injuring passers by.

 

[Safeguard]

Thanks, I sure hope you're right. I can't imagine witnessing any of this - my heart goes out to everyone of course, but lately I've been thinking of the poor witnesses as well.

Geez! I hadn't even thought about if there might have been anyone right there on the ground, who may have seen her hit the dock... That would give me nightmares for life. Ugh.

 

[SpanishInquisition]

Does that boat transport prisoners so they can't access the windows to attempt a water escape? It reminds me of a prison.

Anyway, because the newer ships have windows that open only 4 inches, doesn't that suggest the fully open windows on the older ships are a safety hazard, an accident waiting to happen, therefore the new modification is being implemented? This is what Winks is implying, so how does RCCL defend themselves against that fact? I can understand the courts putting partial blame on RCCL for CW's death for that reason, even though SA breached the railing. If the FOS window opened four inches only, chances are CW wouldn't be dead, just maybe injured.
What if a child climbed on one of those chairs or tables in the bar area, then went onto the railing and fell overboard?

I wonder if we will ever get to a point in time when a driver will be jailed for causing a death which could have been avoided if his old car was equipped with a rear view camera and all the other safety features on the new cars?

What tends to matter is what the law was at the time something was made. Take airbags in vehicles that are now mandatory, which you wouldn't have a case if you sued because you got hurt in an accident due to lack of airbags involving a 1957 Chevy. It would cause severe problems if every time codes were changed it resulted in recalls and retrofits of vehicles, buildings, etc. Rather than just applying to new products.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Geez! I hadn't even thought about if there might have been anyone right there on the ground, who may have seen her hit the dock... That would give me nightmares for life. Ugh.

SA's actions have affected many, many people.

 

[Forever Young]

It certainly appears the window design is faulty when the newer ship's windows only open four inches. I hope RCCL doesn't get hit with any fault, but the new window design doesn't look good for them, imo.

Anyway, I think I have to disagree with you regarding CW being placed on the window metal track and not the railing, at least when she was standing up. In the behind video, it looks like she is standing very close to SA, in the side video, she can't be seen. In her sitting position I can't tell where she is. Do you think she was on the window track while standing and sitting, or just sitting after SA changed her position?

IMO, we would not be able to see her at all if she was sitting on the ledge or inside the window track. The railing being at the height it is is the only thing that allows us to see her.

Where he shifts her from standing to sitting is the only place that I can see where she was suspended in the air and would be considered to be "dangling".

 

[Forever Young]

double post deleted