IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #5

[neesaki]

Next few posts are in reference to the 12/23/19 La Comay episode (linked below).
#1. Santarrosa says when Chloe starts walking towards the windows from the pool area, SA stops her for some reason and that’s when he squats down by the pillar. While he’s squatting, SA turns his head to the window and looks at a man who is already at the window. He’s basically saying that SA was waiting for his turn to get to the window. He stopped Chloe just as the other man is seen walking to the window. And right after that man leaves is when SA gets up and goes to the window.

I thought it appeared that way too, but hearing it confirmed by another source is chilling.

 

[LietKynes]

He should have taken that plea deal.
What an "idiota", as they're probably thinking in PR.

No matter what country, territory, or state ---no one is going to casually dismiss such deliberate actions that resulted in a baby's death !

 

[MsMarple]

The puppet needs to join WS

Seriously though, in the video starting around 46:24 where LE is standing by the window during the investigation it's pretty obvious that the window is open and I doubt that LE touched the position.

And thanks, @Chikkamma for the translations - you're 1000% better than Google, lol!

 

[Forever Young]

There was a good translated description I found elsewhere:

"I just watched the La Comay video. I can understand spanish as my family and DHs are Puerto Rican.

The commentary, essentially, is along the same lines as the prevailing thought here. In general, the hosts do not believe the story being given by the grandfather and the lawyer at ALL. They were quite scathing in their criticism towards the actions of the grandfather, saying it is very clear that he was OUT the window and that the child could not have possibly been in a position to fall outside the window if the grandpa had not purposely held her out of it. They also made some passing comments about how he "appears to be about 80, but is only 51, can you believe that?" They said that he had to feel the wind, hear the sounds and that there is no plausible way he didn't know the window was open. Essentially, they dump all over his claim by pointing out how far he is leaning out and that 18" would mean, at the angle he was leaning, his head would have smashed into the window, at the very least.

Later, they comment that he does BOTH things: perches her on the railing AND holds he out the actual window (he does this first, then brings her back in, sits her on the railing, adjusts his hold on her, then picks her up again to place her forward over the windowsill where it is clear (by her hand gripping the window frame) that her upper body is OUT the window, leaning forward. They also comment how there is a lapse in the time between the child disappearing from view and him collapsing. They wonder whether he just "couldn't believe what he was seeing" as an explanation for the delay, and say that they can't imagine he purposely watched her fall all the way to the ground before reacting, but that it was a bit of an odd reaction.

Finally the puppet guy makes some statements that this was not a blood relative, he was a step grandpa. He says it seems that the "pain" being experienced by the family does not seem to jive with their behavior in the immediate PR and lawsuits filed, and their insistence that the grandpa is innocent EVEN THOUGH no one in the family has seen the video. He says that they don't want to watch the video because, deep down, they know it will show them the truth, that the grandpa was negligent with the child and they don't want to face the truth. Both the puppet guy and the host seem quite angry at the whole situation and the fact that the family refuses to admit responsibility."

Sounds about right to me. With the possible exception of" her hand gripping the frame", which could be a translation error since her hand can be seen through the window pane, of the partially closed portion...

Thank you for that! Gosh darn, I wish I understood Spanish. By the end of this whole thing, I just might!

 

[Chikkamma]

Post in reference to the 12/23/19 La Comay episode (linked in previous post)... posts are just a translation of what Santarrosa is saying (not my opinion):
#2. They interview board-certified ophthalmologist Dr. Vanessa Lopez-Beauchamp... She states that colorblindness has no affect on a person's ability to tell if a window is open or closed. They can recognize this without a problem. Santarossa says this proves SA is a complete liar.... says David Begnaud failed as a journalist bc first thing he should have is gone to an ophthalmologist to verify if colorblindness could make a person not be able to tell if a window was open.

#3. Santarossa seems to think there was malicious intent... Comments on how SA looked DOWN for quite some time before he put Chloe up over the railing... what he saw when he looked down was cement, not water ("where she would have a chance at survival"). He stresses in particular how SA fell backwards after Chloe fell... says that ONLY normal response when you drop something ("even when you drop a cell phone, much less a child") is to frantically lean/jump forward to try to grab whatever fell. But SA just falls backwards with no attempt to try to catch her by leaping forwards...

 

[SuzDuJour]

The way he picked up Chloe has always bothered me. He didn’t cuddle her, he threw her up in the air. He could’ve just lifted her to his hip and then arranged her on the railing. It was almost violent the way he threw her up past his head really bothered me

 

[crhedBngr]

There was a good translated description I found elsewhere:

"I just watched the La Comay video. I can understand spanish as my family and DHs are Puerto Rican.

The commentary, essentially, is along the same lines as the prevailing thought here. In general, the hosts do not believe the story being given by the grandfather and the lawyer at ALL. They were quite scathing in their criticism towards the actions of the grandfather, saying it is very clear that he was OUT the window and that the child could not have possibly been in a position to fall outside the window if the grandpa had not purposely held her out of it. They also made some passing comments about how he "appears to be about 80, but is only 51, can you believe that?" They said that he had to feel the wind, hear the sounds and that there is no plausible way he didn't know the window was open. Essentially, they dump all over his claim by pointing out how far he is leaning out and that 18" would mean, at the angle he was leaning, his head would have smashed into the window, at the very least.

Later, they comment that he does BOTH things: perches her on the railing AND holds he out the actual window (he does this first, then brings her back in, sits her on the railing, adjusts his hold on her, then picks her up again to place her forward over the windowsill where it is clear (by her hand gripping the window frame) that her upper body is OUT the window, leaning forward. They also comment how there is a lapse in the time between the child disappearing from view and him collapsing. They wonder whether he just "couldn't believe what he was seeing" as an explanation for the delay, and say that they can't imagine he purposely watched her fall all the way to the ground before reacting, but that it was a bit of an odd reaction.

Finally the puppet guy makes some statements that this was not a blood relative, he was a step grandpa. He says it seems that the "pain" being experienced by the family does not seem to jive with their behavior in the immediate PR and lawsuits filed, and their insistence that the grandpa is innocent EVEN THOUGH no one in the family has seen the video. He says that they don't want to watch the video because, deep down, they know it will show them the truth, that the grandpa was negligent with the child and they don't want to face the truth. Both the puppet guy and the host seem quite angry at the whole situation and the fact that the family refuses to admit responsibility."

Sounds about right to me. With the possible exception of" her hand gripping the frame", which could be a translation error since her hand can be seen through the window pane, of the partially closed portion...

Wow.

 

[neesaki]

Post in reference to the 12/23/19 La Comay episode (linked in previous post)... posts are just a translation of what Santarrosa is saying (not my opinion):
#2. They interview board-certified ophthalmologist Dr. Vanessa Lopez-Beauchamp... She states that colorblindness has no affect on a person's ability to tell if a window is open or closed. They can recognize this without a problem. Santarossa says this proves SA is a complete liar.... says David Begnaud failed as a journalist bc first thing he should have is gone to an ophthalmologist to verify if colorblindness could make a person not be able to tell if a window was open.

#3. Santarossa seems to think there was malicious intent... Comments on how SA looked DOWN for quite some time before he put Chloe up over the railing... what he saw when he looked down was cement, not water (where she would have a chance at survival). He stresses in particular is how SA fell backwards after Chloe fell... says that the ONLY normal human response ("even when you drop a cell phone, much less a child") is to lean or jump forward to try to grab whatever fell. But SA just falls backwards with no attempt to try to catch her by leaping forwards...

She is confirming my opinion... Horrific, just horrific.

 

[Forever Young]

Post in reference to the 12/23/19 La Comay episode (linked in previous post)... posts are just a translation of what Santarrosa is saying (not my opinion):
<snip>
#3. ... He stresses in particular is how SA fell backwards after Chloe fell... says that the ONLY normal human response ("even when you drop a cell phone, much less a child") is to frantically lean/jump forward to try to grab whatever fell. But SA just falls backwards with no attempt to try to catch her by leaping forwards...

Thank you very kindly @Chikkamma for this.

This is where SA "lost his balance".

The railing kept SA from moving forward any further than he was, even as he held Chloe out farther and farther (in an attempt to reach the non-existent the glass).

He bent over, holding her, so had most of his weight and that of Chloe's balanced toward the open window, on the opposite side of the railing. So he was really straining himself at this point.

With her extra weight gone after she falls, he propels backwards. He grabs onto the railing, and basically swings from it momentarily in order to break his own fall.

 

[Forever Young]

He should have taken that plea deal.
What an "idiota", as they're probably thinking in PR.

No matter what country, territory, or state ---no one is going to casually dismiss such deliberate actions that resulted in a baby's death !

I had thought in the beginning that the lawsuit against RCCL was a kind of (dare I say it) "quid pro quo" over the charges brought against SA. No negligent homicide charge, no lawsuit.

I am thinking in a different direction now, but he still is going to have an opportunity to accept a plea agreement.

So I guess we will see if avoiding jail time was really what this was about - or is it really about "clearing my name" and supporting the Wiegands' lawsuit. Especially in light of the original story lining up with what we see on the videos and how that story has changed.

He does, indeed, have himself in a predicament now.

 

[Safeguard]

The translation you posted was from a different La Comay episode - not the one I posted earlier today.

In the 12/23/19 episode I posted earlier today, Santarrosa (the puppet) says some new things not in the previous episodes. Will translate the important parts in a separate post.

Ah! Thank you, It was the best translation I could find so far. I didn't realize there was info on the color blind angle. Good to know SA is busted, for every lie, in any language!

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

She is confirming my opinion... Horrific, just horrific.

I have thought this from the beginning. Money grab. He belongs under the jail.

 

[Forever Young]

bbm
Thanks for the update.^^^

I can't imagine what family conversations about what SA did to Chloe are like, with the husbands' parents.
Toe-curling, I bet.

I want to be sympathetic to all of them except S.A, but with the lawsuit and the description of the mother at the pressers from the last thread (wearing inappropriate bright red lipstick and colored her hair for it-- like she's getting ready to try the case of her life against the evil RCCL) it's challenging.
Doesn't seem like grief but more like anger and blaming the wrong party.
For god's sakes, go home and stay out of the public eye, and take care of your surviving son.
Hard to figure these people out.
Imo.

Don't know if you've ever heard the expression that "depression is anger turned inward".

I really believe she is fighting depression here. One of the best ways to fight depression is to get mad. You really can't be actively depressed and angry at the same time.

Her hair to me looked like it had gone without color since July, so was darker at the top. It just looked fashionable because that "ombre" coloring has been the thing for the past few years.

As I said before, the red denotes a desire to be dominate, as well as being the color of anger.

Not to mention it was the holiday season, red being the color of the season.

Christmas and Chloe's birthday. Seems they filed the suit to fall at the same time. A gift for RCCL and a gift for Chloe?

 

[Safeguard]

olorblind will not affect a person’s ability to tell if a window is open or not. There is no basis to this claim

Good to have professional verification that color blind people can see windows!

 

[SouthAussie]

I believe the article is referencing that he's Chloe's father, not Kimberly's. It says "the girl's mother is KW" and then "her father is officer AW."

Off topic and hope I'm not mod snipped but just have to say to South Aussie and They'll Get You..I'm watching the news in Australia about these awful wildfires all across Australia along with the heat wave, and people living on the beach to escape. I'm vastly ignorant of Australia's geography but I hope you and your families are safe.

Thank you, Arkay ... it is a most intensely tragic situation going on here. The Aussie WS members that I chat with are safe, but it is certainly all encroaching on where each of us live, and is very scary and very sad. Thank goodness for our hero firefighters is all we can say.

 

[whatsnext]

Thank you, Arkay ... it is a most intensely tragic situation going on here. The Aussie WS members that I chat with are safe, but it is certainly all encroaching on where each of us live, and is very scary and very sad. Thank goodness for our hero firefighters is all we can say.

Having my sister with family living in Australia, I really feel for you, stay safe!

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

If I was KW, I’d attack him. Regardless of my mother.

There may be some...reasons...that she's not attacking him . This is one horrific situation and it's probably about to get worse. JMOO I cannot wait to hear what the eyewitnesses say. The thing that stuck out to me from the beginning was IF indeed CW was SA's "best friend" and was his little darling and all of that, they WHY IN GOD'S NAME would he take such a chance with her life and safety if it was just a stupid accident? Answer: he wouldn't. She didn't mean jack to him. What a complete he is, and whoever else may be involved in this nasty plot.

 

[SouthAussie]

#3. Santarossa seems to think there was malicious intent... Comments on how SA looked DOWN for quite some time before he put Chloe up over the railing... what he saw when he looked down was cement, not water ("where she would have a chance at survival"). He stresses in particular how SA fell backwards after Chloe fell... says that ONLY normal response when you drop something ("even when you drop a cell phone, much less a child") is to frantically lean/jump forward to try to grab whatever fell. But SA just falls backwards with no attempt to try to catch her by leaping forwards...

RSBM

This point #3 is so very true, and nothing I have considered yet.

Whether or not a person can successfully 'rescue' a loved one, it is very usual for them to try. Which is why people get burned entering fire-engulfed buildings trying to save a loved one, and people drown trying to save their loved ones who have fallen into rough waters.

Maybe he did watch the poor little mite fall all the way down, and saw exactly how she ended up. Knew that it was all over for this sweet little girl.

 

[Forever Young]

If I was KW, I’d attack him. Regardless of my mother.

I think I would, too.

 

[Only4Justice]

Don't know if you've ever heard the expression that "depression is anger turned inward".

I really believe she is fighting depression here. One of the best ways to fight depression is to get mad. You really can't be actively depressed and angry at the same time.

Her hair to me looked like it had gone without color since July, so was darker at the top. It just looked fashionable because that "ombre" coloring has been the thing for the past few years.

As I said before, the red denotes a desire to be dominate, as well as being the color of anger.

Not to mention it was the holiday season, red being the color of the season.

Christmas and Chloe's birthday. Seems they filed the suit to fall at the same time. A gift for RCCL and a gift for Chloe?[/QUOT

RSBM

This point #3 is so very true, and nothing I have considered yet.

Whether or not a person can successfully 'rescue' a loved one, it is very usual for them to try. Which is why people get burned entering fire-engulfed buildings trying to save a loved one, and people drown trying to save their loved ones who have fallen into rough waters.

Maybe he did watch the poor little mite fall all the way down, and saw exactly how she ended up. Knew that it was all over for this sweet little girl.

I absolutely do not give him the benefit of the doubt here....