Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #5

[luvhockey]

It could mean that Tammy's death was planned and disappearing the children was a step in that direction, although the children might not have any connection to Tammy.

He has 5 adult children. According to the sheriff, they refuse to spead to the police:

"Typically the family has not spoken with us in reference to this case, at all," Sheriff Humphries said.

Missing Idaho children’s mom fled the night before FBI raided home, neighbor says

Also questions from the same link and info from Lori's neighbor. Wonder who the 'friend' was that drove from AZ with them.
It looks like the FBI spoke to him a week before they talked to her and did the wellness?

He said Lori, her children, her brother and a friend had all driven up from Arizona. Seth said Lori told him she moved there to attend college.
Seth said he met Lori's daughter Tylee once, but never saw her again. He said Lori's adopted son, JJ, often played with his kids.

However, a couple weeks into the school year, he said he learned JJ was moving.
"What we were told... he was going to move with his grandmother, go visit," Seth explained...

Seth said Lori kept to herself. One day, a police officer showed up on Seth's doorstep, asking about Lori and her children. He said about a week later, two nights before Thanksgiving, he saw Lori and her brother packing up a truck. He figured they were going somewhere for the holiday.

"Next morning — Boom. They're gone," Seth said. That's when police and the FBI came crashing in.

ETA: did we know one of Tammy's adult children lived across the street. I knew at least one or two lived in their home.
From the above article: "The Daybell adult children, who live in the home and across the street, also declined to speak to Fox 13."

 

[jjenny]

If Tammy had an autopsy soon after she died, I fail to see the need to exhume the body. If she had an autopsy, one would assume there should have been blood or tissue collected. We heard nothing about that.

 

[tresir2012]

I've wondered if it really was a paintball gun OR is it possible Chad suggested/told Tammy that's what it was? 'Just seems suspicious with LE utilizing metal detectors at the home near driveway

I just wondered, could it have been a taser/stun gun ? Especially now we know AC was in the locality.

 

[jjenny]

Tammy asked the masked man "What do you think you're doing?" several times, so she probably wasn't taking him too seriously (or seriously enough).

A small town librarian is probably not going to think somebody is trying to kill her.

 

[tresir2012]

If Tammy had an autopsy soon after she died, I fail to see the need to exhume the body. If she had an autopsy, one would assume there should have been blood or tissue collected. We heard nothing about that.

I don't think she had an initial autopsy. I think Chad related what he knew about the events and the ME/doctor must have put it down as natural cases. MOO.

 

[j55stand]

To clarify, Charles Vallow did not arrive at the Chandler house where he was murdered with a baseball bat. <modsnip: no MSM to substantiate information stated as fact> There is NO evidence Charles hit Alex with a baseball bat. Both Tylee and JJ were there and witnessed the murder.

To clarify, Charles Vallow did not arrive at the Chandler house where he was murdered with a baseball bat. <modsnip: no MSM to substantiate information stated as fact> There is NO evidence Charles hit Alex with a baseball bat. Both Tylee and JJ were there and witnessed the murder.

Not really relevant, but I remember a post on nextdoor in my neighborhood about the incident. There had been a lot of complaints about people still regularly setting off leftover fireworks from the 4th. Someone closer to me had been setting off ones that shook windows for a few days and people were getting increasingly annoyed at the giant booms. When Charles was shot many people commented on the firework thread, thinking it had to be the same person who was setting them off. Someone else commented that the sound came from a totally different direction than the others, an another person said they noticed a ton of police cars on the street where Charles was shot and figured out it was likely gunshots, not fireworks, and from a totally different location.

Any chance you can pass those posts on to the FBI? Chandler LE is pointless.

 

[carbuff]

Thanks carbuff. The "only 4 hours" part is based on a quote from Tammy's dad.*

It sounds like she did have a basic autopsy, but her dad was dismayed in his comments that the coroner didn't do a more thorough job the first time and catch that her death was suspicious, so that additional toxicology could be run. MOO.

*ETA: And now that I have said that I can't find the quote. Ack! Anyone else remember this or am I losing it? Too many details to keep straight here, but I will remove the "only" from the next draft to make it more factually accurate.

I can understand his frustration, if true. If something was missed, I don't imagine the ME/coroner/pathologist will be very happy either. But poisons are hard to detect if you don't know what you're looking for.

I presume it's poison they're looking for with the second autopsy, but maybe not.

 

[Ohmeohmy]

Kay Woodcock tells me her last in-person conversation with Lori Vallow was in 2018. She and her husband now believe Vallow refuses to tell police where her missing 7yo son is… because JJ was a witness to the killing of his own father last July. This is a
@fox13
web exclusive

Adam Herbets on Twitter

 

[jjenny]

I can understand his frustration, if true. If something was missed, I don't imagine the ME/coroner/pathologist will be very happy either. But poisons are hard to detect if you don't know what you're looking for.

I presume it's poison they're looking for with the second autopsy, but maybe not.

Poisons have to be detected through toxicology. Which is why blood/tissues/other fluids should be collected during autopsy to send for toxicology. If that was done, there would have been no need to exhume the body, I would think.

 

[janewall]

If she had an autopsy that wasn't hasty, why would there be need to exhume the body? Frankly, I don't believe this information to be accurate. She might have spend four hours laying somewhere, but I don't think an autopsy was done at all, other than maybe just looking at the body superficially.

To get a second ME's opinion? I don't think this is uncommon in cases where a death is not considered suspicious at the outset, only to come under serious questioning at a later time.

Whether that lack of suspicion by those responding to TD's death influenced the original ME's findings is definitely something to evaluate though. There certainly could have been a series of assumptions made by assorted local officials and investigators, based on the family's reputation/standing in the community.

 

[jjenny]

So coroners in Idaho are an elected position. They might or might not have medical education. They wouldn't necessarily be a trained medical pathologist.
If Tammy spend four hours in a coroner's office in Idaho, it doesn't mean an autopsy was actually done.

 

[jjenny]

To get a second ME's opinion? I don't think this is uncommon in cases where a death is not considered suspicious at the outset, only to come under serious questioning at a later time.

Whether that lack of suspicion by those responding to TD's death influenced the original ME's findings is definitely something to evaluate though. There certainly could have been a series of assumptions made by assorted local officials and investigators, based on the family's reputation/standing in the community.

I don't know if there ever was a first medical examiner. Again, coroner in Idaho is an elected position. Coroner in Idaho doesn't even have to have a medical degree.

 

[carbuff]

If she had an autopsy that wasn't hasty, why would there be need to exhume the body? Frankly, I don't believe this information to be accurate. She might have spend four hours laying somewhere, but I don't think an autopsy was done at all, other than maybe just looking at the body superficially.

Poisons have to be detected through toxicology. Which is why blood/tissues/other fluids should be collected during autopsy to send for toxicology. If that was done, there would have been no need to exhume the body, I would think.

Most of the news stories make it sound like there wasn't an original autopsy, but her father says there was (see timeline), and I don't think he'd be mistaken about a thing like that.

There are dozens of potential poisons and toxic agents that can cause death. A standard autopsy would have taken samples to test for the most common ones, but if there was no reason to suspect foul play, they probably wouldn't have gone beyond that. And it's also possible that when the results from the first autopsy came back, they pointed to the need for a second autopsy to get more information.

 

[tresir2012]

I suppose if you're a god, you can shift space and time as needed.

Or a reincarnated prophet's grandma?

Not really relevant, but I remember a post on nextdoor in my neighborhood about the incident. There had been a lot of complaints about people still regularly setting off leftover fireworks from the 4th. Someone closer to me had been setting off ones that shook windows for a few days and people were getting increasingly annoyed at the giant booms. When Charles was shot many people commented on the firework thread, thinking it had to be the same person who was setting them off. Someone else commented that the sound came from a totally different direction than the others, an another person said they noticed a ton of police cars on the street where Charles was shot and figured out it was likely gunshots, not fireworks, and from a totally different location.

Were the two shots close together or some time apart from each other? I do wonder why two shots were necessary reasonable force as self defence.

 

[indicolite22]

Kay and Larry Woodcock (Charles' sister and her husband) give opinion on Tammy's paintball gun incident (video):

Adam Herbets on Twitter

 

[jjenny]

Most of the news stories make it sound like there wasn't an original autopsy, but her father says there was (see timeline), and I don't think he'd be mistaken about a thing like that.

There are dozens of potential poisons and toxic agents that can cause death. A standard autopsy would have taken samples to test for the most common ones, but if there was no reason to suspect foul play, they probably wouldn't have gone beyond that. And it's also possible that when the results from the first autopsy came back, they pointed to the need for a second autopsy to get more information.

Is there an exact quote from the father on what he thinks was done?

 

[Trask]

A copy of the medical examiner's report for Joseph Ryan has been posted elsewhere that contradicts the information that it was 3 weeks before his body was discovered. "According to reports, the man had no recent complaints when last seen by a neighbor approx. one week ago. The neighbor had not seen him recently and called for a welfare check." The date of examination on the autopsy report is 4/5/18 and the online Maricopa County Medical Examiner case lists his date of death at 4/3/18 so that would indicate he had passed about 2 days before he was found.

If I'm not mistaken, the original 3 weeks claim came from JJ's grandmother during a GH interview. I thought it worthy of noting this here because the current timeline suggests an incredibly sad narrative that this man was forgotten and his death went unnoticed which is not true. The autopsy report is not a MSM link and the group posting it prohibits screen shots so can't post here but maybe make a note of it in the timeline?

 

[LHS]

To get a second ME's opinion? I don't think this is uncommon in cases where a death is not considered suspicious at the outset, only to come under serious questioning at a later time.

Whether that lack of suspicion by those responding to TD's death influenced the original ME's findings is definitely something to evaluate though. There certainly could have been a series of assumptions made by assorted local officials and investigators, based on the family's reputation/standing in the community.

I don't know if there ever was a first medical examiner. Again, coroner in Idaho is an elected position. Coroner in Idaho doesn't even have to have a medical degree.

Coroners don't tend to do autopsies - that's usually the job of a medical examiner if one is available or a pathologist. But elected officials in the office of coroner are not required to have any medical knowledge making the idea of an autopsy not even possible.

 

[jjenny]

There is still a sad narrative. Look at his obituary. They are asking if anybody knew him, because there is nothing in the obituary about him specifically other than he died.
View Joseph Ryan's Obituary and express your condolences

 

[Jethro4WS]

If she had an autopsy that wasn't hasty, why would there be need to exhume the body? Frankly, I don't believe this information to be accurate. She might have spend four hours laying somewhere, but I don't think an autopsy was done at all, other than maybe just looking at the body superficially.

You are probably right that an autopsy was not performed or could have been done hastily. Fremont County, does not have a medical examiner, but an elected Coroner - Brenda Dye. You can get an idea about her background here:

Brenda Dye to run for Fremont County Coroner

As you see her professional experience is Advanced EMT (20 years experience).

That is not surprising because under Idaho Statutes the requirements for Coroner are:

After January 1, 2010, each county coroner shall complete twenty-four (24) hours of continuing education on a biennial calendar basis. Idaho Code Ann. § 31-2810.

No person shall be elected to the office of coroner unless he has attained the age of twenty-one (21) years at the time of his election, is a citizen of the United States and shall have resided within the county one (1) year next preceding his election

All newly elected or appointed county coroners shall attend a coroner’s school within one (1) year of taking office. Such school shall be sponsored or endorsed by the Idaho state association of county coroners. Idaho Code Ann. § 34-622.​

The initial handling of Tammy may have been limited to the first sentence below rather than the second.

The coroner may, in the performance of his duties under this chapter, summon a person authorized to practice medicine and surgery in the state of Idaho to inspect the body and give a professional opinion as to the cause of death. The coroner or the prosecuting attorney may order an autopsy performed if it is deemed necessary accurately and scientifically to determine the cause of death. Idaho Code Ann. § 19-4301B.​

Idaho - Coroner/ME Laws | CDC

Note, that there is no state requirement that an autopsy be conducted by a licensed pathologist. Also, Idaho does not have a State Medical Examiner. An attempt to create such a position in 2018 (House Bill 515) failed.

All of this is why I also believe that the autopsy that was conducted when Tammy was exhumed was handled in Utah (Provo or Salt Lake City).