OH Pike Co., 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #53

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Dudly said:
Has anyone besides JW said that S was planned? Was that part of his innocence ploy saying how close that he and HMR were. Has
there ever been any proof that he is on the BC or that a paternity test was done for S? I may have missed it or forgot it if there was...
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Only JW said she was planned so we don't know unless Kendra was to speak out about it. If anyone would know she would.

We don't know if his name is on the BC and don't know if a DNA test was done. Those court papers we saw said that Jake is saying he knows S is his because of her looks, hammertoe, and photos of them together.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/custodyjpg-jpg.215503/

Doesn't make any sense to me because why not just do a paternity test? Do they cost hundreds of dollars and he couldn't afford it? In that case why wouldn't wealthy grandma pay? She spent $1097.41 on just one day of e-bay shopping for Billy:

Motorcycle helmet size XL for $249.00
A fringe black leather jacket with bead and bone (sounds appropriate) size 4XL for $164.99
2 bullet proof vests size 2XL for a total of $640.00
Add slingshot for $43.42

From Discovery Exhibit #4
Motion to Dismiss Fredericka Wagner Charges
 
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Dudly said:
Has anyone besides JW said that S was planned? Was that part of his innocence ploy saying how close that he and HMR were. Has
there ever been any proof that he is on the BC or that a paternity test was done for S? I may have missed it or forgot it if there was...
Click to expand...

If you read HMR's IM, it appears that she was very much wanted, and they were (she was) exited about the future, then, it appears something happened, around the same time that G4's marriage started going south (iirc). I'll just put it that way.
 
Cool Cats said:
Only JW said she was planned so we don't know unless Kendra was to speak out about it. If anyone would know she would.

We don't know if his name is on the BC and don't know if a DNA test was done. Those court papers we saw said that Jake is saying he knows S is his because of her looks, hammertoe, and photos of them together.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/custodyjpg-jpg.215503/

Doesn't make any sense to me because why not just do a paternity test? Do they cost hundreds of dollars and he couldn't afford it? In that case why wouldn't wealthy grandma pay? She spent $1097.41 on just one day of e-bay shopping for Billy:

Motorcycle helmet size XL for $249.00
A fringe black leather jacket with bead and bone (sounds appropriate) size 4XL for $164.99
2 bullet proof vests size 2XL for a total of $640.00
Add slingshot for $43.42

From Discovery Exhibit #4
Motion to Dismiss Fredericka Wagner Charges
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It just seems to me that something is strange about the whole thing with S and JW's paternity...It seems he wanted to use anything but the most accurate way of proving paternity. I've wandered why the normal route was never taken. Go to court to ask for joint custody, prove custody with DNA, set support payments, and everything is legal. I've also wondered how much he actually helped her financially. I think he may have found out what support would cost him and didn't want that big of a financial burden. Especially if another guy would be indirectly benefiting from the support. I know of a situation when a guy was calling his daughter and her step-father was in the background saying, where's the support check? When are you sending it?
All just thoughts and opinions...
 
Cool Cats said:
She acknowledged he was the father whether he was on the birth certificate or not. They planned the baby and set a wedding date and lived together and then she gave him 50% custody. I think his problem was getting legal joint custody where he can make the important legal decisions because he was an adult and she was only 15 when HR got pregnant.
I think he was afraid of pushing it in court, for his legal parental rights for joint custody, because she never married him and without marrying him he could be charged.
She messed it up for him by not marrying him. Had she married then divorced him, he would have no problem getting legal joint custody where he could make decisions.

She allowed him time with her but he had no legal parental rights to her. He wanted more. For some reason he didn't see the court system working out for him. Or he actually really did want the full custody and not just joint custody.
,,,2 Cents ...
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HR allowed JW visitation with SW but HR always had 100% custody even when SW was with the W's. That is Ohio law.

If JW had gone to court for joint custody then he would have to pay child support but I have never heard that he wanted Joint Custody. Just as an example, I personally know someone that made a little above minimum wage and the state calculated that he owes the mother almost $ 800 a month.

Here is a good form regarding Unmarried Father's rights in Ohio:

https://www.lascinti.org/wp-content/uploads/Unmarried-Fathers.pdf

Here is Ohio's Child Support Calculator:

Ohio Child Support Calculator - Home Page

My bottom line opinion is that JW is a jealous twisted person and he wanted SW so HR couldn't have her. He also benefited financially from having HR dead and him having custody of SW. He probably was receiving the Social Security money from HR's death that SW would draw every month. He didn't have to worry about being on the hook for child support. There is probably other government benefits that he was receiving due to having SW and being a 'single' parent.

JW wanted full custody and control plus the money and HR dead.

He also killed every surviving family member that could have obtained custody of SW. He made out financially.

jmo
 
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OhioBlues said:
HR allowed JW visitation with SW but HR always had 100% custody even when SW was with the W's. That is Ohio law.

If JW had gone to court for joint custody then he would have to pay child support but I have never heard that he wanted Joint Custody. Just as an example, I personally know someone that made a little above minimum wage and the state calculated that he owes the mother almost $ 800 a month.

Here is a good form regarding Unmarried Father's rights in Ohio:

https://www.lascinti.org/wp-content/uploads/Unmarried-Fathers.pdf

Here is Ohio's Child Support Calculator:

Ohio Child Support Calculator - Home Page

My bottom line opinion is that JW is a jealous twisted person and he wanted SW so HR couldn't have her. He also benefited financially from having HR dead and him having custody of SW. He probably was receiving the Social Security money from HR's death that SW would draw every month. He didn't have to worry about being on the hook for child support. There is probably other government benefits that he was receiving due to having SW and being a 'single' parent.

JW wanted full custody and control plus the money and HR dead.

He also killed every surviving family member that could have obtained custody of SW. He made out financially.

jmo
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Thankx for clearing that up! Your right, even though HR let Jake take SW 1\2 time she still did have full custody. Yes, I have never heard anything about joint custody. It seems he wanted what she had, full custody. And if he can't have HR full time also, no one can.

There are countless instances of parents killing each other over child custody and child support payments etc...

But why would all 4 go and kill all 8 over it? Dana was the only one who he might have had to fight for custody but not all the rest of them. I am hoping for a trial where we can find out why the prosecution thinks all 4 of them got involved with it, then killed several people more than necessary for Jake to get custody.

Why didn't GW4 say he couldn't get involved because his son came first? Was he dragged into it? Or was he all gung-ho like he is heard to be on the wiretaps -- the information from the "confidential reliable source" which is wiretaps, spywear, whatever, that I think recorded them at Freds. I do not believe they talked in front of someone in F W's house on multiple occasions.
 
Cool Cats said:
Thankx for clearing that up! Your right, even though HR let Jake take SW 1\2 time she still did have full custody. Yes, I have never heard anything about joint custody. It seems he wanted what she had, full custody. And if he can't have HR full time also, no one can.

There are countless instances of parents killing each other over child custody and child support payments etc...

But why would all 4 go and kill all 8 over it? Dana was the only one who he might have had to fight for custody but not all the rest of them. I am hoping for a trial where we can find out why the prosecution thinks all 4 of them got involved with it, then killed several people more than necessary for Jake to get custody.

Why didn't GW4 say he couldn't get involved because his son came first? Was he dragged into it? Or was he all gung-ho like he is heard to be on the wiretaps -- the information from the "confidential reliable source" which is wiretaps, spywear, whatever, that I think recorded them at Freds. I do not believe they talked in front of someone in F W's house on multiple occasions.
Click to expand...

Chris would have fought for custody of SW and so would DR or FR or CR2. HR was not treated kindly by JW (as AC hinted at in court). HR's family would never let JW have custody of her. jmo
 
OhioBlues said:
HR allowed JW visitation with SW but HR always had 100% custody even when SW was with the W's. That is Ohio law.

If JW had gone to court for joint custody then he would have to pay child support but I have never heard that he wanted Joint Custody. Just as an example, I personally know someone that made a little above minimum wage and the state calculated that he owes the mother almost $ 800 a month.

Here is a good form regarding Unmarried Father's rights in Ohio:

https://www.lascinti.org/wp-content/uploads/Unmarried-Fathers.pdf

Here is Ohio's Child Support Calculator:

Ohio Child Support Calculator - Home Page

My bottom line opinion is that JW is a jealous twisted person and he wanted SW so HR couldn't have her. He also benefited financially from having HR dead and him having custody of SW. He probably was receiving the Social Security money from HR's death that SW would draw every month. He didn't have to worry about being on the hook for child support. There is probably other government benefits that he was receiving due to having SW and being a 'single' parent.

JW wanted full custody and control plus the money and HR dead.

He also killed every surviving family member that could have obtained custody of SW. He made out financially.

jmo
Click to expand...

Excellent post, Ohio Blues! You hit a bunch of nails smack on the head! The only thing I would add is JW having sex with HR when she was 15. He couldn't press the issue because he knew he couldn't win. JMO
 
In a typical plea bargain, the defense lawyer and prosecutor confer, and one or the other proposes a deal. The negotiations can be lengthy and conducted only after both parties have had a chance to research and investigate the case.
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The decision about whether to accept the plea bargain ultimately rests with the client.
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How Plea Bargains Get Made
 
Loomis124 said:
My ignorance speaking here, but I always thought a plea bargain had to be offered by the Prosecution. ?
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The Plea Bargain Process Between Prosecution and Defense Attorney

Defense attorneys can go to the prosecution to offer and negotiate plea deals.
It's the defense attorney's job to negotiate possible plea offers to resolve cases in the best interests of their clients.

About 90% of all criminal cases end in a plea agreement. The ones that do go to trial are usually in matters where one side will not accept a plea offer if one is offered and/or the defense believes that the prosecutor cannot prove its case.

In felony cases where plea bargains are permitted, the prosecution and defense can arrive at an agreement at any stage of the criminal proceedings, including during or after a trial but before a jury arrives at a verdict.

A Wagner attorney could go to Canepa and ask for a plea deal that drops the DP. Like saying "Jake/Angie/George will give you this information if you drop the DP."
 
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Cool Cats said:
The Plea Bargain Process Between Prosecution and Defense Attorney

Defense attorneys can go to the prosecution to offer and negotiate plea deals.
It's the defense attorney's job to negotiate possible plea offers to resolve cases in the best interests of their clients.

About 90% of all criminal cases end in a plea agreement. The ones that do go to trial are usually in matters where one side will not accept a plea offer if one is offered and/or the defense believes that the prosecutor cannot prove its case.

In felony cases where plea bargains are permitted, the prosecution and defense can arrive at an agreement at any stage of the criminal proceedings, including during or after a trial but before a jury arrives at a verdict.

A Wagner attorney could go to Canepa and ask for a plea deal that drops the DP. Like saying "Jake/Angie/George will give you this information if you drop the DP."
Click to expand...

JMO, I'll have to see it to believe it, in any of these cases. Just too much evidence.
 
@rsd1200 - you mentioned that these are DP cases - I just skimmed thru their dockets (actually just JW, since you mentioned him). I didn't find anywhere that it said it was a death penalty case.... when did DA announce that? Thanks - just want to keep my notes straight! :)
 
Niner said:
@rsd1200 - you mentioned that these are DP cases - I just skimmed thru their dockets (actually just JW, since you mentioned him). I didn't find anywhere that it said it was a death penalty case.... when did DA announce that? Thanks - just want to keep my notes straight! :)
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I am only going by what has been reported. It's quite possible those specifications have been taken off the table and I've not been aware.

Attorney John Clark represents the Wagner family. Clark says family members look forward to their day in court so they can clear their names.

Clark says in a statement:

Given the fact that the Wagners have been indicted with capital murder and death penalty specifications, we respectfully decline making any statements at this time. However, the Wagners eagerly look forward to their trials, and to have their day in court so they can vindicate their names. The Wagners are also ever hopeful that in the ensuing months there will be a thorough vetting of all the facts. Moreover, we look forward to the day when the true culprit(s) will be discovered and brought to justice for this terrible tragedy.
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DeWine: Custody dispute played role in Rhoden killings, prosecutors seek death penalty


Pike County massacre: Lawmakers want state taxpayers to foot bill for costly death penalty cases
 
Niner said:
@rsd1200 - you mentioned that these are DP cases - I just skimmed thru their dockets (actually just JW, since you mentioned him). I didn't find anywhere that it said it was a death penalty case.... when did DA announce that? Thanks - just want to keep my notes straight! :)
Click to expand...

I have something that addresses this, so I’ll post it for you- an
article about extensive costs involved in Death Penalty cases.

Maybe the reference to Dealth a penalty is in the indictments

Pike County murder cases underscore why fewer prosecutors pursue death penalty

”Angela Wagner reads her indictment at the Pike County Courthouse during her arraignment on Thursday, Nov. 29, 2018, in Waverly, Ohio. Wagner, her husband and sons are charged in the shootings of the Rhoden family in 2016. Authorities say the Wagners' case is expected to become one of the state's most expensive, as the costs of the death-penalty trials could reach into the millions of dollars, authorities say.”
Snip
“Timothy McGinty, a former Cuyahoga County prosecutor and judge, sought the death penalty in only a handful of cases when he served as county prosecutor from 2012 to 2016. In the Pike County cases, he said there should be no discussion.

“If you don’t go after the death penalty in that case, a diabolical, coordinated series of murders, then you aren’t following the law,’’ McGinty said. “The costs cannot be a factor for a prosecutor. That’s up to the legislature to find the money. The legislature drew up the law. The prosecutor has to follow it.

“If you are the prosecutor, you have to ask yourself, ‘Is this the most god-awful crime there is?’ Believe me, it is not for every case. But for the most heinous crimes, the prosecutor has no choice.’’
****

Wonder if it would be very difficult to come to an agreement on a plea deal involving 4 defendants and as stated above, “you have to follow the law”..”prosecutor has no choice”


Also near the end of this article is a photo of Billy at his arrest in Lexington
Good reference as most of his tattoos are visible.
 
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