Found Deceased OH - Harley Dilly, 14, walking to Port Clinton High School, 20 Dec 2019 #4

[bellyup]

The homeowner spoke to 19 news (trying to find link, saw on local Tv) and said there were no fireplaces in the house. So now I’m even more confused as to how the coat and glasses were found on the second floor.

Can anyone explain how this might occur? The house was built in 1850. I don’t know enough about how that is built to understand how coat and glasses could come out if no fireplaces at all?

 

[Seattle1]

I wonder if he took his jacket and glasses off before entering the chimney to maybe see if they went all the way through or if he just took off his jacket and then lost his glasses? Does anyone know if he went in feet or head first?

Statistically - pretty sure it was feet first. That's also the way Santa comes down my chimney.

 

[Angelcat13]

Just horrifying. If they checked the house the first day they would have seen his jacket on the floor and could have saved him.

I don't mean to come across as defending local law enforcement in this case. However, it is important to remember that they were being assisted by larger LE agencies with significant expertise. WHY didn't any of the other, more experienced LE people insist on trying to gain entry to the home? It seems like they were able to contact the owner's for permission to access the property last night, so why didn't they reach out to the owner's for permission in the very beginning?

That being said, we also have to keep in mind that the family didn't report HD missing until the next night. If the dimensions of the chimney are as small as noted in the Press Conference, it is quite possible that HD would have been unable to breathe and (I hope) quickly lost consciousness and died. If this is the case, HD was probably dead before the school even attempted to notify his parents that he was absent.

This doesn't absolve LE for mistakes made, but I hope they (and others) can learn from this and not torture themselves wondering if quicker action could have saved him. It is easy (and understandable) to be angry at LE and the actions that likely should have been made, but I can't imagine the pain that all of them must feel wondering if the outcome could have been different if they had.

I was an ICU/Trauma Nurse for 12 years and I know how painful it is to wonder if something you did or didn't do led to a bad outcome. Most people don't have jobs where a mistake, something overlooked, etc will lead to someone's death. It can be easy to second guess what SHOULD have been done, but LE, first-responders, health care workers, etc often have to make snap decisions that can have heart-breaking consequences.

I feel for everyone touched by this tragedy - his parents, family, friends, neighbors, classmates, searchers, LE and even the media that reported on the case and those of us here that followed it closely hoping for a different outcome. I ultimately feel for HD who will never get the chance to grow up and live his life. I just hope he can see how much he was cared for by so many.

 

[TropicalTapioca]

I wonder if he took his jacket and glasses off before entering the chimney to maybe see if they went all the way through or if he just took off his jacket and then lost his glasses? Does anyone know if he went in feet or head first?

I was thinking that he tossed the jacket ahead of himself, to 1) cushion the descent and 2) so it wouldn’t rip/get damaged on the way down as well. As far as the glasses, I just wonder if he went head first and they simply slipped off.

 

[DeeDee1111]

As I mentioned in post number 554, when I was a kid my father was a ham radio operator who had a very tall radio tower like the one next to this abandoned house and I used to climb the tower to get on the roof of my old Victorian house this way. Maybe Harley had a fight with his mom or his parents and played hooky from school that day since they wouldn't let him stay home. He probably had no where to go so he decided to waste some time until the school day was over. Those radio towers are like huge ladders and for curious kids it is quite tempting to climb them.

When I used to get to the top of the roof-line of the house on my dad's tower, I couldn't look down at how high up I was because I would freeze with fear. Going up you don't watch your steps as carefully as going down the tower. When you descend these type of towers going down you have to look down to watch every one of your steps so you don't fall off of them. That in itself is way scarier than going up because by then you realize how dangerous it is and things below you look so far away.

When he got on the top of the roof maybe he tried to climb down but froze with fear at how high up he was. As unsensible as sliding down a chimney is, at least you don't have to look down like you would if you were high up on the tower. He may have been too afraid to climb down and having no phone to call for help made him more vulnerable. Even if he had his phone, he may have been way too afraid to notify the authorities or his parents that he needed help because he would have been in a lot of trouble for trespassing.

He was warned that if he got into anymore trouble and the police were called, DH would have taken him away for 30 days. He was terrified of this. Maybe going down the chimney was the only way he thought he could get down and safely inside the house so he could let himself out without getting caught by his parents or the police. Once he got inside the chimney, it was too late to get back out and he got himself trapped inside and died. This is the most heartbreaking tragedy. I shudder to think of the fear he felt in his last few moments of life.

 

[Gunslinging Granny]

I wonder if he took his jacket and glasses off before entering the chimney to maybe see if they went all the way through or if he just took off his jacket and then lost his glasses? Does anyone know if he went in feet or head first?

Even if he went in feet first, some chimney victims have been found in a fetal position or with their head downwards. Remember in How the Grinch Stole Christmas when the Grinch was climbing down the chimney and his feet started moving slower than his body and he got bunched up? That's how some inverted suspension and positional asphyxiation deaths occur in tubes. The victims end up in a fetal position or their head lower than their body.

 

[TropicalTapioca]

The homeowner spoke to 19 news (trying to find link, saw on local Tv) and said there were no fireplaces in the house. So now I’m even more confused as to how the coat and glasses were found on the second floor.

Can anyone explain how this might occur? The house was built in 1850. I don’t know enough about how that is built to understand how coat and glasses could come out if no fireplaces at all?

That could account for why he wasn’t able to descend any further, due to the first floor being blocked.

 

[MassGuy]

Statistically - pretty sure it was feet first. That's also the way Santa comes down my chimney.

I dunno. I linked a Colorado case where the teen went in head first. I could see it going either way here.

 

[margarita25]

What an adventurous spirit Harley had. Josh Maddux was also described as having an adventurous spirit.

 

[Curiousobserver]

The homeowner spoke to 19 news (trying to find link, saw on local Tv) and said there were no fireplaces in the house. So now I’m even more confused as to how the coat and glasses were found on the second floor.

Can anyone explain how this might occur? The house was built in 1850. I don’t know enough about how that is built to understand how coat and glasses could come out if no fireplaces at all?

In an older home the furnaces also were vented through a chimney like this one. They had openings in the basement and sometimes in the attic so you could clean them out (very old furnaces burned coal) then oil.

There is a little metal door that gives you access but no way he could get through there. I bet he hit the bottom and kicked open the flue door.

 

[allboys]

Especially when you see the picture of

I totally agree with your post and feel the same. JMO but I believe that LE thought he had taken off on his own. I'm thinking that if TES had been involved earlier and given free reign he would have
been found.

BBM. This is a case where I think profiling (of Dilly) would have been most helpful.

I did not follow this case closely as many of you did, but last night I watched a couple of Harley’s videos. IMO, he seemed pretty innocent. I would not describe him as “fearless.” Yes, it takes one kind of fearlessness (or recklessness etc.) to climb into a chimney. But the fact that Harley stayed so close to home, based on what little I observed of him in videos, does not surprise me at all. So, if in fact LE thought he took off on his own, I think profiling may lead you to believe he did not go far.

The one and only time I ran away (really for theatrics I’m sure), I was age 6. I packed a suitcase, and ran away... All the way to my backyard patio, where I sat on my suitcase and leaned back ONTO MY HOUSE. I was really disappointed when no one came looking for me, before I got bored and headed back into the house.

Anyway, I do wonder what kind of assumptions LE profilers were making about Harley, early in the case.

 

[Angelcat13]

The homeowner spoke to 19 news (trying to find link, saw on local Tv) and said there were no fireplaces in the house. So now I’m even more confused as to how the coat and glasses were found on the second floor.

Can anyone explain how this might occur? The house was built in 1850. I don’t know enough about how that is built to understand how coat and glasses could come out if no fireplaces at all?

I'd have to listen to what the homeowner said or if they corrected their words. I, too, live in a house that was built in 1850 and our house had at least two fireplaces but they are no longer WORKING fireplaces. The one in the Living Room was closed up by someone at some point in time and the one in the basement is not usable (no chimney liner, etc). But the house in Ohio had to have some sort of opening, but may have simply been considered a "decorative" fireplace by the owners as they probably never used it for the same reason I don't use mine.

Also, someone previously said the current homeowner's recently bought the house and were going to rehab it for a "vacation" house. If that's the case, they may not have even given much thought to there being a fireplace if they hadn't begun renovations yet.

 

[bellyup]

Looking up old chimney flue interior I get many images like this one. Which ...

 

[margarita25]

Even if he went in feet first, some chimney victims have been found in a fetal position or with their head downwards. Remember in How the Grinch Stole Christmas when the Grinch was climbing down the chimney and his feet started moving slower than his body and he got bunched up? That's how some inverted suspension and positional asphyxiation deaths occur in tubes. The victims end up in a fetal position or their head lower than their body.
View attachment 225875 View attachment 225876

Re: Josh Maddux:

“His feet were down,” Born said. “He was in a fetal position.”

Chimney discovery ends mystery over young man’s disappearance, but questions remain – The Denver Post

 

[Liltxtrndo]

Even if he went in feet first, some chimney victims have been found in a fetal position or with their head downwards. Remember in How the Grinch Stole Christmas when the Grinch was climbing down the chimney and his feet started moving slower than his body and he got bunched up? That's how some inverted suspension and positional asphyxiation deaths occur in tubes. The victims end up in a fetal position or their head lower than their body.
View attachment 225875 View attachment 225876

I am definitely at a loss here, because while I do understand how the Grinch got bunched up, I do not know what size chimney Grinch was travelling through. I know gravity/speed can cause odd things to happen but unless you're a stick figure, how the heck would you get bunched up in 9X13 space...that's the size of a pyrex dish. Yikes poor kiddo

 

[kaykay543]

Even if he went in feet first, some chimney victims have been found in a fetal position or with their head downwards. Remember in How the Grinch Stole Christmas when the Grinch was climbing down the chimney and his feet started moving slower than his body and he got bunched up? That's how some inverted suspension and positional asphyxiation deaths occur in tubes. The victims end up in a fetal position or their head lower than their body.
View attachment 225875 View attachment 225876

great visual. I kept trying to imagine it. especially since 2 other cases say they were found with their heads above their knees in the fetal position.

I am still confused though how he “pushed” the coat and glasses through unless he was headfirst.

hubby told me about the time he and his friends got stuck in a sewer pipe. still gives him nightmares. He said schools should teach these kids about getting in these tight spaces.

its just heartbreaking

 

[kaykay543]

Looking up old chimney flue interior I get many images like this one. Which ...

I really think he was hoping someone would his coat/glasses and find him

 

[dkryder]

Gosh, kid across the street was missing. CBI, FBI, Marshalls, and "nothing led us to believe anybody was in the house". Like I guess anybody using the house would leave the doors open, radio tv on plus lights.? MOO.

 

[Curiousobserver]

great visual. I kept trying to imagine it. especially since 2 other cases say they were found with their heads above their knees in the fetal position.

I am still confused though how he “pushed” the coat and glasses through unless he was headfirst.

hubby told me about the time he and his friends got stuck in a sewer pipe. still gives him nightmares. He said schools should teach these kids about getting in these tight spaces.

its just heartbreaking

He put them down first and then pushed them out of the flue access door with his feet-

 

[Seattle1]

The homeowner spoke to 19 news (trying to find link, saw on local Tv) and said there were no fireplaces in the house. So now I’m even more confused as to how the coat and glasses were found on the second floor.

Can anyone explain how this might occur? The house was built in 1850. I don’t know enough about how that is built to understand how coat and glasses could come out if no fireplaces at all?

I think an Ohio home built in 1850 offers several possibilities-- especially as it was probably renovated several times (and currently under renovation). At one time there was probably a register on the chimney wall to allow heat between floors or even an interior trap door. If either were now removed, the opening would be exposed.

Here's a good source to understand how late 1800 era houses were heated without fireplaces.

https://www.curbed.com/2017/11/30/16716472/old-house-fireplace-coal-stove-history-heating