Linda7NJ
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WOW! This is crazy! Crazy!
Portland Fire says on average they respond to one to two calls per year for people trapped in a chimney.
Is that Portland Oregon?
WOW! This is crazy! Crazy!
Portland Fire says on average they respond to one to two calls per year for people trapped in a chimney.
Did they even need to consider the chimney before checking?
What exactly do you think warranted police to enter an unoccupied private home where all the windows and doors were double-locked secure and there was absolutely no signs of forced entry to the home? The owner stated nobody except the family had keys to the house. What reasonable expectation was there for the police to believe Harley had keys and entered the house, and Harley himself or his property could be inside?
There's been no confirmation exactly where the coat and glasses were found. I think they very well could have been located behind a wall register or hanging from a cap opening. Knowing that the chimney flue was not designed for an original fireplace, I've not convinced the items dropped directly to the floor.
Irrelevant at this point, but say a vacant house had been left unlocked and someone let themselves in.... and then double bolted it all from the inside... wouldn't LE think it was all locked up and then no reason to check? how did they know a front or back or side door or window or whatever was left mistakenly unlocked for someone to get in... then bolt it up from the inside?I am still Gobsmacked by how many LEO personal,and other entities were on this. Not just Hickman, but The freaking FBI,among others.
Not a single one of them thought to check that house, inside and out. Not a single one thought in spite of there being no sign of breaking,and entering, that maybe there was. Not a single one has ever heard of a cat burglar, or the fact there have been many cases of just such a thing where there was Zero sign of a break in.Not a single one really listened to all the people saying check empty,unoccupied,rental,vacation, homes etc. I know he was likely dead by the time the search was on, but he could at least been found much sooner. Hopefully all LEO,and other agencies take note. Leave no stone unturned, question everything. Get permission from homeowners to check it out, or Search Warrant. Listen when people say. Check vacant,homes......... I'm sorry but Border Protection, and he was stuck in that Chimney a cross the street the whole time.
MOO
Yes Marry Poppins had me thinking you go down the chimney in a flash..As i said earlier i am 50 and had absolutely no ideal how a chimney worked i truly believed it was a long way down,very dark but you would come out in the house.I feel really dumb at this age not knowing that was impossible.I am going to have to stop thinking about it i am 5'3 and weigh 98 pounds and i went to the kitchen and pulled out my cake pan 9x13 and stood in the middle of it and tried to see how i could fit..its sad and hard to understand.mooIrrelevant at this point, but say a vacant house had been left unlocked and someone let themselves in.... and then double bolted it all from the inside... wouldn't LE think it was all locked up and then no reason to check? how did they know a front or back or side door or window or whatever was left mistakenly unlocked for someone to get in... then bolt it up from the inside?
And I'll be honest, I had no idea that chimneys don't all go out to a fireplace. I would have never attempted to go down one, but Mary Poppins was my absolute favorite movie growing up and I remember all the kids going down the chimney, swish no problem at all. I might be worried I wouldn't fit, but it never would have crossed my mind that it doesn't go straight to the bottom. I didn't grow up in a house with a fireplace and I had no concept of that little flue angle thing until I looked at pictures yesterday.
14 yr olds are known for rash, impulsive actions. Poor choices abound.Did Harley think every old house must have a fireplace? Had he never been in an older home without a fireplace? If he had planned this out, it seems like he would peer into the windows and see that this house had no fireplace on the first floor. So then he went down the chimney expecting to land in the furnace? Just more stuff that does not make much sense. MOO
There are enough cases where missing children, and sometimes adults, were found in nearby homes and buildings. Some of these were abandoned properties and others were simply vacant. I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure when a child is missing its standard procedure to canvass the neighborhood near the child's home or the location where they were last seen (as well as the child's home). It's also standard procedure to check vacant lots, abandoned homes and empty homes in the neighborhood,with the owner's permission if possible.
Though Harley's life probably wouldn't have been saved with an earlier search of the home by LE, it's possible future victims might be found alive . When a child goes missing it seems a no brainer to check empty homes on the street. Let's hope LE agencies learn from this and make it part of their routine checklist in the future. Why take a gamble on whether or not a child is there? Just check.
MOO
How many other properties did they have to check that day? I'd say hundreds.They didn't even try. Just looked around the outside of the house,decided because it didn't like anyone had broken in, to not check it out any further.
My post 984, please read article, the owners did not know the Dillys.Harley was also a friendly kid that appeared anxious to spend time outside of his residence. I would not be surprised to learn he'd visited the neighbor and been inside where he may have seen a large opening in the wall (former a wall register) that he believed he could reach from the chimney. At 14, if our kids saw renovation activity across the street, they'd run right over asking how they might help to earn some cash to supplement their allowance-- which always falls short!
The owner said he did not know the family.Harley was also a friendly kid that appeared anxious to spend time outside of his residence. I would not be surprised to learn he'd visited the neighbor and been inside where he may have seen a large opening in the wall (former a wall register) that he believed he could reach from the chimney. At 14, if our kids saw renovation activity across the street, they'd run right over asking how they might help to earn some cash to supplement their allowance-- which always falls short!
But how could they 'just go inside?' It was a fully locked up home, with the owners out of state.Did they even need to consider the chimney before checking? If they'd just gone inside the house they would have found his coat and glasses and realised where he was. (Werent they found on the floor in plain sight?)
Again, I think the first responders will do an in-depth post-mortem on what went right and wrong. No one here (at WS) even conjectured that he would be/could be in a chimney. Even if we saw the abandoned/unoccupied home, I don't think any of us would have said, "Hey, how about that chimney, could he be there?" Now that he has been found and LE will assess their response, I bet that there will be some new protocols in training for missing kids/teens and canvassing the neighborhood. Unfortunately, tragedies inform how the next situation is handled-- Columbine (faster response into buildings), Sandy Hook (locked access doors at all times), mining accidents (safety zones below ground, alternate accesses, better rapid response, safety drills), major storms (mandatory evacuations, better storm tracking), wildfire approaches for first responders (planned burns, safety blankets, computerized modeling of winds and shifts). Harley's tragedy has certainly been an eye opener and now we are left to learn from his actions in order to save someone else in the future.
No none of us would have thought about the chimney...Again, I think the first responders will do an in-depth post-mortem on what went right and wrong. No one here (at WS) even conjectured that he would be/could be in a chimney. Even if we saw the abandoned/unoccupied home, I don't think any of us would have said, "Hey, how about that chimney, could he be there?" Now that he has been found and LE will assess their response, I bet that there will be some new protocols in training for missing kids/teens and canvassing the neighborhood. Unfortunately, tragedies inform how the next situation is handled-- Columbine (faster response into buildings), Sandy Hook (locked access doors at all times), mining accidents (safety zones below ground, alternate accesses, better rapid response, safety drills), major storms (mandatory evacuations, better storm tracking), wildfire approaches for first responders (planned burns, safety blankets, computerized modeling of winds and shifts). Harley's tragedy has certainly been an eye opener and now we are left to learn from his actions in order to save someone else in the future.