WA WA - Kirkland, Hisp/Unsfem 30-60, UP61645, med bracelet w/“DOE, JO” admitted Jan 10, 2019, Jan'19

[SpanishMossAntiques]

Another thing that irks me is that this woman was a Jane Doe or as they are calling her, Doe Jo, the hospital releases her without her having a clue as to who she is, this is so negligent of them. Just one more thing to add, with the situation the lady was living in and struggling with mental illness, is it possible that she may have had a record for maybe loitering or vagrancy or something along those lines? Did they take her fingerprints? The

Again, it is not negligent of a hospital to let a patient that is not on a psychiatric hold (or after she was on a hold for 3 days - at which point the hospital would have to definitively prove that she is either a danger to herself or others; and no, she's not a danger to herself simply because she has lice). An adult is not legally required to provide the hospital with her name, or any other information. In fact, many people here illegally will go to the hospital for treatment and give a generic name, or no name at all, and they'll say they forgot their Social Security Number, etc. But yes, it is standard practice for police to take fingerprints if the body has not putrefied, and the homicide investigators along with the ME and/or the medicolegal investigator will contact local homeless shelters, hospitals, search police reports, police contact records, police calls, etc. (They will often keep this information classified, on a 'need-to-know' basis, so it generally won't be published in the media unless they determine that doing so will not compromise their investigation or will produce some leads.) A few pieces of advice here: If you're genuinely interested in searching for clues in missing person cases, or trying to put a name to the unidentified, it would be worth your time to learn basic police procedure, and, how to use the various databases out there in this regard. It's important to avoid making assumptions about the missing person, etc. as well - in my previous career when I'd be assigned a complex investigation (involving numerous subjects/suspects), my Lieutenant would say to me, "Hannah, don't forget that you can find everyone guilty of something when you make assumptions - but when you follow the objective evidence in a case it will always lead you to the truth". While based on the way this UID was apparently living she probably was suffering from mental illness. But, I can think of a thousand other reasons for her to present the way she did... What evidence did you discover that she did not travel very far? Someone who is motivated can walk 20+ miles per day... What makes you believe she did not hitchhike or else maybe hop a train? Here in Chicago if I see someone elderly or maybe otherwise vulnerable walking in the rain or bitter cold I was always offer them a ride to wherever it they are going... So, she potentially could have indeed traveled quite a distance. It's important never to underestimate what people can accomplish; humans are extremely creative and adaptable! So, try not to impose your ideals on the subject of your investigation. Instead, jump into that rabbit hole and follow it as far as it goes...

 

[book-thinker]

Where she was found isn’t close to any
major highways. The location is close to some expensive homes and near local businesses. A small park is close by. I wonder if the homeless are using the park at night to sleep. If the temperature gets low during the winter some churches provide shelter at night. I would think the local LE
are asking people near the park who she is.

This is a nice area, if she was hanging out
near the homes, the locals would have called
the cops. Unless it happened at night and
she was walking and got tired and fell asleep.

Seattle has a large homeless population,
I’m not sure about Kirtland. Someone from out
of state wouldn’t choose Kirkland as place to
hang out.

 

[LadyL]

I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with the term dbm, could you explain it to me?

just means deleted by me

 

[Sue Doe Nimm]

If she was determined not to be a suicide risk or else homicidal no matter how many lice she had, how much garbage she was carrying with her etc it's still her right as an adult human to refuse treatment, and to leave a hospital against medical advice.

EXACTLY! This isn’t a case of negligence from the medical community, it’s respecting patient rights. I’m a RN, and I absolutely cannot make someone do something that they don’t want to if they’re able to state they refuse. It doesn’t matter how sick, dirty, buggy or smelly they are-if they’re competent, it is their right to refuse any and all medical care that is offered, and it’s their right to be dirty, buggy and smelly. As a matter of fact, if I perform a task after someone refuses, it’s considered assault, I could lose my nursing license and the patient can press charges against me.

 

[carbuff]

Does Kirkland have city bus service?

 

[sasha17]

Does Kirkland have city bus service?

It's served by King County Metro. Here is a system map that shows the Kirkland portion: https://kingcounty.gov/~/media/dept.../maps/system/09212019/pdf/metro-system-map-ne

 

[book-thinker]

Does Kirkland have city bus service?

Yes they do. However, if she came in from out of town the first place to go is Seattle. Bus service involve transfers and money. I would be difficult to cross by foot from Seattle to Kirkland. It's not impossible. Walking the 1-90
bridge over Lake Washington, pass thru Mercer Island then go north past Bellevue. I wouldn't be surprised she
was traveling with someone.

 

[PaulR]

Yes they do. However, if she came in from out of town the first place to go is Seattle. Bus service involve transfers and money. I would be difficult to cross by foot from Seattle to Kirkland. It's not impossible. Walking the 1-90
bridge over Lake Washington, pass thru Mercer Island then go north past Bellevue. I wouldn't be surprised she
was traveling with someone.

They don't need to walk I-90. You can walk across 520 since there is a bike lane.

Getting to Kirkland (and this is not far from downtown Kirkland, the main transit depot is not far away at the Kirkland library) via transit isn't difficult, there are direct buses. Here is one: Route 255 - King County

 

[book-thinker]

They don't need to walk I-90. You can walk across 520 since there is a bike lane.

Getting to Kirkland (and this is not far from downtown Kirkland, the main transit depot is not far away at the Kirkland library) via transit isn't difficult, there are direct buses. Here is one: Route 255 - King County

Didn’t realize the 520 had a bike lane.
Thanks for the information.

 

[carbuff]

Yes they do. However, if she came in from out of town the first place to go is Seattle. Bus service involve transfers and money. I would be difficult to cross by foot from Seattle to Kirkland. It's not impossible. Walking the 1-90
bridge over Lake Washington, pass thru Mercer Island then go north past Bellevue. I wouldn't be surprised she
was traveling with someone.

Thanks, that's good info. Though I was thinking more about whether she could easily get from Evergreen Hospital in Kirkland to that location. And it appears she could, according to the links from @sasha17. It's about a 20-30 minute bus ride, depending on the route, and it stops within a couple of blocks of her location. $2.75 to ride; she could easily have panhandled that amount.

As to why she wanted to go there--the Lakeside church on First Ave housed a 24-hour emergency winter shelter in 2018-2019, according to some references I found. Unfortunately they're all on social media so I can't post links. But it looks like it's not there this winter. I wonder if she managed to get there, then found out it wasn't there but didn't have energy or money to make it any farther.

 

[book-thinker]

Thanks, that's good info. Though I was thinking more about whether she could easily get from Evergreen Hospital in Kirkland to that location. And it appears she could, according to the links from @sasha17. It's about a 20-30 minute bus ride, depending on the route, and it stops within a couple of blocks of her location. $2.75 to ride; she could easily have panhandled that amount.

As to why she wanted to go there--the Lakeside church on First Ave housed a 24-hour emergency winter shelter in 2018-2019, according to some references I found. Unfortunately they're all on social media so I can't post links. But it looks like it's not there this winter. I wonder if she managed to get there, then found out it wasn't there but didn't have energy or money to make it any farther.

I read Kirkland is building a permanent 24 hour shelter. It’s expected to open summer of 2020. At the present time Kirkland has
three shelters that rotate at any given time.
A confusing situation for someone seeking assistance.
If LE checked the surrounding hospitals
and she had checked into a hospital and given the name Jane Doe, they would need additional clues in identifying who she really is.
The State of Washington released patients who they felt were healthy enough to leave Western Washington a psychiatric hospital.
Unfortunately some of these patients have
ended up on the street. They stopped taking
their mediations and most live on the streets. This is sad situation.

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

However, they could put a 72 hour hold on her if they deemed she was unfit. This lady did not even give a name to them, she was Doe Jo to them, a rational person would have at least made up name to give them.

EXACTLY! This isn’t a case of negligence from the medical community, it’s respecting patient rights. I’m a RN, and I absolutely cannot make someone do something that they don’t want to if they’re able to state they refuse. It doesn’t matter how sick, dirty, buggy or smelly they are-if they’re competent, it is their right to refuse any and all medical care that is offered, and it’s their right to be dirty, buggy and smelly. As a matter of fact, if I perform a task after someone refuses, it’s considered assault, I could lose my nursing license and the patient can press charges against me.

EXACTLY! This isn’t a case of negligence from the medical community, it’s respecting patient rights. I’m a RN, and I absolutely cannot make someone do something that they don’t want to if they’re able to state they refuse. It doesn’t matter how sick, dirty, buggy or smelly they are-if they’re competent, it is their right to refuse any and all medical care that is offered, and it’s their right to be dirty, buggy and smelly. As a matter of fact, if I perform a task after someone refuses, it’s considered assault, I could lose my nursing license and the patient can press charges against me.

 

[PaulR]

However, they could put a 72 hour hold on her if they deemed she was unfit. This lady did not even give a name to them, she was Doe Jo to them, a rational person would have at least made up name to give them.

That's not a reason to effectively imprison someone by preventing them from leaving the hospital. There is nothing irrational about refusing to give a name, and that's certainly not enough to point to a mental disorder that would mean that they would be a danger to themselves or others which is the general criteria for a forced hold.

Giving a fake name could also be considered a form of identity theft and thus a crime.

There are also entirely rational reasons for not wanting to give their real name in this circumstance - for example, she could have been a victim of domestic violence and she didn't want to risk her ex finding out where she was.

 

[carbuff]

However, they could put a 72 hour hold on her if they deemed she was unfit. This lady did not even give a name to them, she was Doe Jo to them, a rational person would have at least made up name to give them.

I believe (from other cases I've followed) that not giving a name, or only giving a first name or nickname, is very common among long-term homeless/transient people. I'd say there's a high likelihood the people around her knew her as Jo.

I wonder if they took her picture around to the shelters and soup kitchens to see if anybody recognized her.

 

[book-thinker]

I believe (from other cases I've followed) that not giving a name, or only giving a first name or nickname, is very common among long-term homeless/transient people. I'd say there's a high likelihood the people around her knew her as Jo.

I wonder if they took her picture around to the shelters and soup kitchens to see if anybody recognized her.

Yes I believe you’re right.

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

Let's say that it isn't irrational to refuse to give a name and isn't enough to point to mental illness, but her being filthy and having major head lice, etc., to me it signals she may have sort of mental illness or mental disorder, whether she did or not none of us know, but, it is a possibility.

I still to ask myself, how was she brought in? Was she a walk in? If so, did she walk in and then refuse treatment? Was she brought in by someone she knew at a homeless shelter or camp? Did an ambulance bring her in? What other information was garnered from her as far as her health concerned? She had a healed horizontal on her abdomen (c-section scar), is there a way for them to date the scar to figure out how old her child would be (if the child lived)?

All of the circumstances surrounding the unidentified person is important no matter how small it is.

You said that giving a fake name is form of identity theft and therefore a crime, illegal aliens do it all the time, could lady have been an illegal alien and that is why no one had come forth to claim her either out of fear or because they are still in
Another country and doesn't know about their loved one?

Anything is possible, not impossible.

That's not a reason to effectively imprison someone by preventing them from leaving the hospital. There is nothing irrational about refusing to give a name, and that's certainly not enough to point to a mental disorder that would mean that they would be a danger to themselves or others which is the general criteria for a forced hold.

Giving a fake name could also be considered a form of identity theft and thus a crime.

There are also entirely rational reasons for not wanting to give their real name in this circumstance - for example, she could have been a victim of domestic violence and she didn't want to risk her ex finding out where she was.

 

[sasha17]

I know it's not possible but this is a situation where I wish medical records could be released. We might know more about her if we saw the records from her time at the hospital.

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

Media Coverage

Do you recognize this woman found dead in Kirkland?

Do you know who she is? Sketch released of woman who died in Kirkland.

Do you recognize this woman found dead in Kirkland?
Help sought in identifying deceased found on Kirkland street | Kirkland Reporter

King County ME’s office trying to identify homeless woman who died of exposure

Posting these because I think it could relate to "Doe Jo"
Kirkland to get new shelter for women and families, as Eastside homeless population rises

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-st...en-for-permanent-homeless-shelter-in-kirkland

 

[Earthbound Misfit I]

https://sophiaway.org/thank-you-temple-bnai-torah/

Last winter, a woman died from hypothermia – waiting at the wrong location for shelter.

Thanks to the tzedakah (Hebrew for charitable giving) of Temple B’nai Torah, our Emergency Shelter will be located at the Crossroads neighborhood synagogue until May 31, 2020!

 

[carbuff]

https://sophiaway.org/thank-you-temple-bnai-torah/

Last winter, a woman died from hypothermia – waiting at the wrong location for shelter.

Thanks to the tzedakah (Hebrew for charitable giving) of Temple B’nai Torah, our Emergency Shelter will be located at the Crossroads neighborhood synagogue until May 31, 2020!

So that was what happened. Poor woman.