IN - Grandfather charged in cruise ship death of toddler Chloe Wiegand #6

[MsMarple]

sbm. Not sure I'm following why Wiegands would be inclined to complain re Winkleman. Maybe I'm getting too far O/T. Sorry. Back to poor little Chloe.

RSBM
I was posing a "what if" only, not that I think the Wiegands will file a bar complaint. What I meant was that the Florida Bar takes client complaints seriously and would follow up for sure. Mind you, if their case gets dismissed or if they lose who knows what they'd do...

 

[Kindred]

The Wiegands’ attorney Michael Winkleman issued this statement:

The Wiegands are in the process of responding to Royal Caribbean’s Motion to Dismiss. In short, Royal Caribbean’s Motion to Dismiss is baseless and deceptive. It is clear that Royal Caribbean’s tactic is to blame Chloe’s grandfather rather than to accept that Royal Caribbean did not implement industry standards for toddler safety aboard its ships which ultimately led to Chloe’s tragic death. Royal Caribbean has premised its defense in this case and its blame on Chloe’s grandfather by supplying two deceptive views from its CCTV cameras to the court and the Puerto Rico authorities. However, the Plaintiffs were first permitted a vessel inspection of the scene of the incident on January 10 – less than a week after Royal Caribbean first informed the Wiegands that they are making modifications to the ship that will destroy the subject area where the incident occurred. That inspection has revealed that Royal Caribbean’s Motion to Dismiss neglects to tell the Court and, presumably, the authorities that there were no less than THIRTEEN CCTV video cameras in the area of the incident. The Wiegands will ask the Court to compel Royal Caribbean to produce all the video from those nearby cameras.

Further, the Wiegands’ response to Royal Caribbean’s Motion to Dismiss will definitively show what the Wiegands have said since day one: that Chloe’s grandfather never knew there was an open window and never ...
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13 cameras will give a lot of clarity - he’s gonna regret this request IMO and also the video when shown using the proprietary software will be very clear
JMO

This is a bald-faced lie, as we know from the words in his own emergency filing that states that RCCL offered them two other occasions to inspect the ship, one in sept and then the other one earlier in Jan. Didn't I call it that he was going to try and stomp their feet and claim they were being wronged over this whole inspection thing?

 

[Kindred]

Now that the Weigands have responded to the Motion for Dismissal, is everyone still confident that RCCL will prevail?

Confident enough I'd put money on it. Again, it's very telling that Winkleman is doing all his yelling in the media but has no legitimate leg to stand on in his filings. He's trying way to hard to convince the public and not hard enough to convince the judge

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

Do you mean he might have felt dizzy and went into that position to restrict blood flow?

So respectfully, IMHO, this case has nothing to do with being drunk, hot, fat, dementia, having shoulder neuropathy , blood flow, banging on or disappearing glass, getting a better view or anything else that Winkie and the Fam have brought up. I have thought that it has been about MONEY since I first heard about it. FWIW. JMO. MOO. Etc.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

It's kind of like "at no point ever, ever, would Sam ever
put our children in danger".

Seriously, though, they are saying that SA did not himself breach where the glass would have been, had it been there. They are saying that he did not hold her outside the window, she fell out there.

Once again, it seems that MW is blaming Chloe for having fallen off the ship. He has made several comments like this, and it's shameful to actually blame the victim for her plunge to the dock 11 stories below

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

I guess Wink wants to cherry pick video and still shots, too.

13 Cameras vs 1 Accident Re-enactment: Who ya got?

 

[justbreathe]

Yes, I have some serious issues with what Winkleman is doing since Winkleman has expressly said he doesn't represent SA, yet he's doing things to SA that impact SA's criminal case.

You would think the family’s number one priority at this point, if they really believe SA did nothing wrong, would be keeping him safe and out of jail.

Yet they are doing things, like interviews and sharing evidence, that could compromise his criminal case in favor of the civil case.

Odd priorities imo.

 

[Lawnguylander1964]

I have to believe that there is a wealth of cell phone photos and video out there around the time of this accident from the pier. A straight on visual may not show her "outside" the ship, but from any other angle it would show how far out she was and even how far out SA's head was when he poked his head out.

If Wink doesn't believe the 2 camera versions he's seen so far because they are from behind, then maybe the shots from the front will shut him up.

At this point it is about money, because if Wink wants to get paid for this case (assuming it is on contingency because it doesn't appear that this family has much money), he has to come up with something to save this to at least get his costs back. However, the high profile of this case can probably land him more work and a steady gig on all the cable news shows as an expert whenever there is a cruise ship situation.

 

[justbreathe]

bbm. I don’t know if that’s necessarily true. Don’t lawyers have an obligation to not bring forth baseless lawsuits that serve only to clog up the court systems? Isn’t it an attorney’s duty to determine if their clients even have a case?

I’ve heard of attorneys being sanctioned for such behavior.

The hurdle of “baseless” is pretty hard to clear.

Even if the case is thrown out, that doesn’t mean anyone will be sanctioned for asking the question - is there a case here?

The whole court system exists to create more business for itself. $$$

 

[justbreathe]

Yup, and you know who one of the first ones who mentioned that he looked older than his stated age was? La Comay.

Winky wanted the perception to be “poor old doddering grandpappy.” Then realize right quick that many people older and younger than 50 would be offended at 50 being described as “elderly” or”old.”

 

[justbreathe]

Winkleman expressly does not represent SA, but rather represents the Wiegands:
"You have to assume that it shows something that really led the Puerto Rican authorities to believe there was criminal offense, so clearly there's something in that video," Winkleman, who is not representing Anello, told CBS.
Grandfather of toddler who died in cruise ship fall doesn't fear prosecution: "They can't do anything worse to me"
Winkleman, who represents the Wiegands, said the lawsuit doesn’t specify damages. However, since the accident happened in port and not at sea, the family can seek full damages.
Family files lawsuit against Royal Caribbean over Indiana toddler’s fatal plunge on cruise ship

Even civilly it raises ethical issues as SA's voluntary statement done at the encouragement of Winkleman where he confessed to holding onto Chloe with one hand while she was on a railing could be used in a civil suit against (over and above used against him in the criminal) by the Wiegands if they dumped Winkleman for another civil attorney. The Wiegands and SA's interests are not the same from a civil standpoint, so even if Winkleman was representing SA civilly, he just set up his own client to be in a position to lose if he got sued by the Wiegands. SA is not a named litigant in the lawsuit against RCCL so he has no pecuniary interest so far, but he could be named a defendant by the Wiegands and become a criminal convict due to Winkleman's machinations.

Could the judge in the civil case assign some percentage of fault and/or liability to SA even if he isn’t named?

 

[justbreathe]

In one photo, you can see his front, top teeth, they look small and separated, like he would be a good candidate for veneers or something.
Speaking of age, I'm 60+ and last week a clerk at a convenience store asked me for proof when I asked to buy a lottery ticket! I said, "what, are you kidding?" I actually had to leave the store and get my license out of my car to buy the ticket. You never know how old somebody really is! BTW, I noticed grandma Anello looked like she dyed her hair for the family interview, she looked younger than her photos.

They hit the salon before their big press tour?

 

[Only4Justice]

Not to mention, I have to believe there were people watching aboard the ship in that area who saw it happen. Who doesn’t pull their phone out these days when they see something outrageous? IMO

 

[Cryptic]

bbm. I don’t know if that’s necessarily true. Don’t lawyers have an obligation to not bring forth baseless lawsuits that serve only to clog up the court systems?

A drive down an interstate or through any large city will reveal many competing "1-800 Sue-Them" attorneys all soliciting a variety of injury lawsuits lawsuits via large bill boards.

In the end, establishing that a lawsuit is "baseless" by legal definition is very difficult (as stated by the other poster).

I’ve heard of attorneys being sanctioned for such behavior.

Though as you stated attorneys have been disciplined related to the filing of lawsuits, my guess is that nearly all of the discipline occurs for other ethics violations and not baseless lawsuits.

For example, attorneys cannot pay or compensate non attorneys to refer clients to them. Rather, each client must self refer- even if the referral is through a bill board. Thus, an attorney who say, pays me to approach people at swap meets and sign them up for injury lawsuits would be in trouble.

There are other ethics violations as well. Perhaps say, one half of the firm files lawsuits, while the other half then contacts the individuals being sued and offers to defend against the same lawsuits.

 

[justbreathe]

Nope, had not seen this one(above):Michiana family says cruise line is being 'deceptive' in lawsuit over toddler's death

“They are trying to capitalize on that angle to come up with a false narrative,” said Winkleman. “What the photos, videos, and accident reconstruction from the vessel inspection show is that Chloe was always within the ship and there was room to spare.

Winkleman says last week, an inspection and accident reconstruction was conducted, proving there was at least a foot and a half of room between the railing and window."

"Winkleman says the photos and accident re-enactment data will be released next week"

This came out of Granger, Indiana. I remember David Begnaud saying that the family had tremendous support in their hometown area.

I can’t imagine how this will help. I bet we never see that reenactment.

 

[justbreathe]

Apparently people tend to get into this position because they might have temporary lost control of their facilities it is a very uncomfortable position.

I don’t know... He is in this squatting position in many of the photos released.

Gives the *impression* that is his go-to way of getting on Chloe’s level.

 

[Kindred]

NEW DOCUMENTS INCOMING!

Apparently Winky-Dinky-Doo wants to have his cake and eat it too. He's filed two motions, one that includes photos of their 'crime scene re-enactment' that DOESN'T have SA doing the re-enactment (hmmmmmmm wonder why?) and a motion to strike the submitted video from the record because it is "unauthenticated". So Winky wants all videos just not THOSE two videos.

Give me a second, the forum is not letting me upload the one document because it's saying it's too big. Experiencing technical difficulties please stand by

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Not to mention, I have to believe there were people watching aboard the ship in that area who saw it happen. Who doesn’t pull their phone out these days when they see something outrageous? IMO

IIRC, someone allegedly told Grandpa NOT to do what he was doing. I don't know if it was crew/staff or another passenger. Of course, SA probably doesn't like anyone telling him what he can or cannot do. I can see this guy giving someone the middle finger if he didn't like what they said to him Hopefully, that individual was interviewed by local authorities. There were likely bartenders nearby, as well, who could see what SA was doing.

 

[SaguaroSpirit]

NEW DOCUMENTS INCOMING!

Apparently Winky-Dinky-Doo wants to have his cake and eat it too. He's filed two motions, one that includes photos of their 'crime scene re-enactment' that DOESN'T have SA doing the re-enactment (hmmmmmmm wonder why?) and a motion to strike the submitted video from the record because it is "unauthenticated". So Winky wants all videos just not THOSE two videos.

Give me a second, the forum is not letting me upload the one document because it's saying it's too big. Experiencing technical difficulties please stand by

BBM LOVE IT! LOL!

 

[GinaSeikwa]

I’m 48 and look it (still youthful which 48 is lol) but have to give my head a shake every time I see a picture of SA and realize he is only 51. It’s truly shocking how aged he looks. OT but I also chocked on my cornflakes yesterday when I realized that Lev Parnas is only 47 years old! He has the same hard living, unkept, 20 years older look as SA.