Identified! NV - Wellington, WhtMale 574UMNV, 35-50, Off Sand Canyon Road, Mar'92 - #2 - Vincent Marion Trapp

[Coffeelover]

I've been lurking on this case for years and just checked to see if he was on the list at DNA Doe Project. I was dismayed to see that he was not. Apparently they will only look into a case if it comes to them, not vice-versa, so what can we do to get him on the list? I don't think funding would be that much of an issue since they put a paypal link under non-funded does and usually after a few weeks they get enough donations.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

I've been lurking on this case for years and just checked to see if he was on the list at DNA Doe Project. I was dismayed to see that he was not. Apparently they will only look into a case if it comes to them, not vice-versa, so what can we do to get him on the list? I don't think funding would be that much of an issue since they put a paypal link under non-funded does and usually after a few weeks they get enough donations.

This was the detectives post a page or two back:

I am here and I am tracking. I now work for the Douglas County District Attorney's Office, but still monitor this case. What is needed? If you need to contact me you can reach me at mmarty@douglas.nv.gov

Reading through, I did reach out to the DNA Doe Project and then passed the info on to the person at the State of Nevada, Investigation Division who could make that happen. It cost money, so unknown if the State will spend the money to make it happen. I suggested it is the best bet we have right now at a possible ID on our Sand Canyon John Doe.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

So I guess we have to get on the State of Nevada Investigation Division as it appears that the detective's request may have stalled there.

 

[Coffeelover]

This was the detectives post a page or two back:

I am here and I am tracking. I now work for the Douglas County District Attorney's Office, but still monitor this case. What is needed? If you need to contact me you can reach me at mmarty@douglas.nv.gov

Reading through, I did reach out to the DNA Doe Project and then passed the info on to the person at the State of Nevada, Investigation Division who could make that happen. It cost money, so unknown if the State will spend the money to make it happen. I suggested it is the best bet we have right now at a possible ID on our Sand Canyon John Doe.

Yes, I saw that. I was just wondering if we could email the person at the State of Nevada who handles these things or in any way help move this case along?

 

[carbuff]

Yes, I saw that. I was just wondering if we could email the person at the State of Nevada who handles these things or in any way help move this case along?

You could do that, if you didn't want to contact MMarty.

 

[branmuffin]

I have a couple of questions. The forensic pathologist did not find any stab wounds but the forensic anthropologist did. Does that mean that there was evidence of a knife wound to bones in the chest? Like a rib? Second question. Could an old stab wound that hit bone but from which the victim previously survived be mistaken for a mortal wound?

 

[Owutatangledweb]

I have a couple of questions. The forensic pathologist did not find any stab wounds but the forensic anthropologist did. Does that mean that there was evidence of a knife wound to bones in the chest? Like a rib? Second question. Could an old stab wound that hit bone but from which the victim previously survived be mistaken for a mortal wound?

That's a great question. I would imagine that they could give an educated opinion on whether the location of the stab wound could have produced a fatal wound as opposed to a non-fatal wound. You know, one he would have bled out from if not treated. But I don't recall if they said that was his cause of death. That's all just in my opinion. I'm no expert.

 

[carbuff]

An older wound that wasn't fatal would show signs of healing along the injury to the bone. One perimortem (around the time of death) would be more ragged and raw. Depending on how large the wound was, it might be hard to see that, though. Not sure.

 

[branmuffin]

An older wound that wasn't fatal would show signs of healing along the injury to the bone. One perimortem (around the time of death) would be more ragged and raw. Depending on how large the wound was, it might be hard to see that, though. Not sure.

I'm not sure either. That's why I am wondering why the FA identified the wound but the FP didn't. I realize that FAs are the ones that specialize in bones but I would have thought that an experienced pathologist would recognize bone wounds during their autopsy and record their observation, especially a skeletonized subject. If the pathologist recognized it as an old wound they would have eliminated it as a factor in deciding manner of death. I wonder if there is other evidence of stabbing: skin clinging to skeleton with tell tale slashes and/or slashes in remaining t-shirt and/or jeans and the moving blanket.

 

[carbuff]

I'm not sure either. That's why I am wondering why the FA identified the wound but the FP didn't. I realize that FAs are the ones that specialize in bones but I would have thought that an experienced pathologist would recognize bone wounds during their autopsy and record their observation, especially a skeletonized subject. If the pathologist recognized it as an old wound they would have eliminated it as a factor in deciding manner of death. I wonder if there is other evidence of stabbing: skin clinging to skeleton with tell tale slashes and/or slashes in remaining t-shirt and/or jeans and the moving blanket.

Those are really good questions, but MMarty and crew never released that level of detail to us. They were really hoping to solve the murder as well as identify our guy.

 

[branmuffin]

Those are really good questions, but MMarty and crew never released that level of detail to us. They were really hoping to solve the murder as well as identify our guy.

Sometimes you have to identify the victim before the perp is revealed.

 

[carbuff]

Sometimes you have to identify the victim before the perp is revealed.

Indeed.

Mr. Marty mentioned more than once that since this is an active murder case, we needed to let them do the investigation so as not to put ourselves in danger. That kind of spooked me.

 

[branmuffin]

Indeed.

Mr. Marty mentioned more than once that since this is an active murder case, we needed to let them do the investigation so as not to put ourselves in danger. That kind of spooked me.

Yes, I can see that some people might still be actively ensuring the victim is not identified because it would reveal who murdered them. I have a MP that has been percolating in my mind. I have never seen his name provided in any of the lists mainly because he's just shy of the minimum height. I kind of ignore that anyway since a lot of UIDs that have been identified do not fit the min or max of height. Especially since this UID has no feet I would think we should err on the side of caution, unless that has already been taken into consideration with the height requirements.

 

[branmuffin]

This is my MO when trying to weed out possibles. Initially, I try to find the low hanging fruit. Rather than plodding through thousands of MPs I usually try to identify the location of the body discovery then use Google to check out the roads that lead to that location and more importantly, where they originate from. Where they can end up is just as important. Based on the mapping to this location, it's quite possible our UID came from San Francisco.

The guy I am interested in went missing Sept 21, 1991. That puts him in the parameters of how long the UID may have been dead. He's listed as being 5'10" but I'm not too concerned with the discrepancy. He's also a veteran of the Navy. He has a scar on his chest from a knife wound which is why I asked in a previous post if an old knife wound would be visible on bone. Since LE has not provided any information as to whether he was stabbed more than once or whether his extremities were removed mechanically postmortem it difficult to say how tall the UID really was. Another thing that intrigues me about this case is the comments they have made about the shoes and that they appear to have been worn by someone with too big feet.

I don't know why they don't release information that could legitimately help identify someone who may have had some kind of congenital deformity of the foot (although that would definitely rule out someone in the military.) I have read that there is a prevalence of podiatric medical problems in veterans vs non-veterans. Things like bunions, flatfootedness, and hammer toes. Maybe the person who wore the shoes had foot deformities that altered the shape of the shoe. I know my grandmother's shoes took on the shape of her feet because of her bunions. Is it possible that the suspect removed both hands and feet because the UID could be identified by military records?

The MP's hair also looks like it could be the same colour as the DB, even the length.

The missing person I am thinking about is John Peter Fox. Here is the link beside the mock up provided by LE. The image on the Missing page is black and white and doesn't really show his hair colour.

John Peter Fox

Another think that intrigues me about this guy is that the website shows a link to LE in Idaho. Where our UID was found is pretty well right on the route to Idaho from San Francisco.

What do you think?

 

[PunkCake]

This is my MO when trying to weed out possibles. Initially, I try to find the low hanging fruit. Rather than plodding through thousands of MPs I usually try to identify the location of the body discovery then use Google to check out the roads that lead to that location and more importantly, where they originate from. Where they can end up is just as important. Based on the mapping to this location, it's quite possible our UID came from San Francisco.

The guy I am interested in went missing Sept 21, 1991. That puts him in the parameters of how long the UID may have been dead. He's listed as being 5'10" but I'm not too concerned with the discrepancy. He's also a veteran of the Navy. He has a scar on his chest from a knife wound which is why I asked in a previous post if an old knife wound would be visible on bone. Since LE has not provided any information as to whether he was stabbed more than once or whether his extremities were removed mechanically postmortem it difficult to say how tall the UID really was. Another thing that intrigues me about this case is the comments they have made about the shoes and that they appear to have been worn by someone with too big feet.

I don't know why they don't release information that could legitimately help identify someone who may have had some kind of congenital deformity of the foot (although that would definitely rule out someone in the military.) I have read that there is a prevalence of podiatric medical problems in veterans vs non-veterans. Things like bunions, flatfootedness, and hammer toes. Maybe the person who wore the shoes had foot deformities that altered the shape of the shoe. I know my grandmother's shoes took on the shape of her feet because of her bunions. Is it possible that the suspect removed both hands and feet because the UID could be identified by military records?

The MP's hair also looks like it could be the same colour as the DB, even the length.

The missing person I am thinking about is John Peter Fox. Here is the link beside the mock up provided by LE. The image on the Missing page is black and white and doesn't really show his hair colour.

John Peter Fox

Another think that intrigues me about this guy is that the website shows a link to LE in Idaho. Where our UID was found is pretty well right on the route to Idaho from San Francisco.

What do you think?

I kind of just stumbled in here but with just a glance, this MP seems VERY plausible. And sometimes I think fresh eyes and a sort of greenhorn approach doesn’t over think it ?

Idk, I just float along the forums and throw in a outsider theory from time to time.

 

[carbuff]

I think Fox looks very likely. The t-shirt design appears to have come from an artist in San Francisco, so a connection there wouldn't be surprising, and he certainly resembles the decedent.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

I noticed johns watch in the photo. Does anyone recall whether the UID had a watch?

 

[branmuffin]

No watch, IIRC. Also, check out the pendant on the chain around his neck. Is it likely it's related to military service? I don't remember seeing anything in the way of jewelry on the Missing file.

I noticed johns watch in the photo. Does anyone recall whether the UID had a watch?

 

[Owutatangledweb]

I thought when glancing, that it was an arrowhead. Now that I look back and make larger, I think it's some kind of cross.

 

[branmuffin]

I thought when glancing, that it was an arrowhead. Now that I look back and make larger, I think it's some kind of cross.

When I really scrunch my eyes it looks like a caduceus. I wonder if Fox was a medic or something in the Navy. Here's a sample.