arizonamomoffour
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This gets more strange, but, perhaps the children are alive and kept with another family so the "leaders" can honeymoon? (I'm hoping)
Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #14
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arizonamomoffour
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Same thought
From the initial report, it seemed like this College/University style Portal app which some are very sophisticated, but it seems to be an app to keep the parents in loop of certain activities scheduled throughout the year and probably with certain status updates that get texted out to a directory of numbers.
fred&edna
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I hope you're right! (I keep sayin this a lot)
I think we're all grasping for anything that could be twisted into the kids still being alive. MOO
THIS vehicle that Lori was driving while at the storage unit, does anyone have a link that explains where it is now?
I was pretty sure I had read earlier in this case that it was found by LE but I am unable to find anything now. It's driving me nuts lol thank you so much!
I was pretty sure I had read earlier in this case that it was found by LE but I am unable to find anything now. It's driving me nuts lol thank you so much!
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ThinkoutLoud
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1. You’ve got to be right about knowing each other.
2. Wow. That is so hard to come to terms with. I wish I could hold out hope for something else but after everything I’ve read here, and I’ve read everything here, I think you’re right.
PinkPrincessPoop
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Justin Lum's own words about the type of information on the app, "The posts are basic and generic." It doesn't sound like there are any educational materials at all on there. Probably the type of communication app to let parents know of upcoming parent/teacher conferences and stuff like that. Which only makes the fact that Lori keeps checking on this app weirder.
securitynerd
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Interesting about the logins. In the age of data science, it's amazing what can be and is easily tracked in an app like a school portal. I don't know this specific software, but, generally you can see user activity based on login, so I don't think it'd be from a "remember me" type of deal...these were intentional logins. User actions and automated actions generally have different behavior signatures, which is how an IT professional or a firewall can discern the intent of the traffic.
Without knowing the full scope of what data is collected...I suspect that for the school to be confident that this was a login by LV, they use something called passive authentication. PA happens in the background without the user ever knowing, and generally consists of matching the device you used to sign up, or that is generally associated with your account, with the device currently attempting login. A lot of places use this tech - credit bureaus, Facebook, credit card companies, etc. In addition to the device fingerprint, there are other checks happening, such as IP trace (known bad actor IP ranges), among other information. It happens in seconds.
As an IT professional, what this situation tells me is that their credential provisioning/deprovisioning process is broken, considering JJ was removed from the school in September and it's now February, and her access was just cut. The access should have been cut upon their exit from the school, but generally, there are periodic access audits to avoid such a thing, especially when it comes to seeing sensitive information about children.
However...this is also a good thing for LE. Each login will have an IP (and a trove of other data) associated with it, even if the pair is smart enough to use a VPN service to hide their true location. In my security days, I used the VPN service IP range to track a ring of fraudsters...it gave me one way to narrow down my field from millions of accounts to thousands...and then in that batch, I found other things that all matched and eventually narrowed my field to around 100. One thing about people - they are creatures of habit and will do things the same way, even if they're trying not to. Something about their habits will come through. In the case of the fraudster ring, the accounts were all set up similarly..same style of name, email, passwords...zebras don't change their stripes.
I don't say any of this to scare anybody, but more to offer insight. LE knows a lot more than they're releasing. They had to have probable cause to get a warrant for electronics, and I suspect their probable cause is coming from data analysis.
All my own opinion, of course.
Without knowing the full scope of what data is collected...I suspect that for the school to be confident that this was a login by LV, they use something called passive authentication. PA happens in the background without the user ever knowing, and generally consists of matching the device you used to sign up, or that is generally associated with your account, with the device currently attempting login. A lot of places use this tech - credit bureaus, Facebook, credit card companies, etc. In addition to the device fingerprint, there are other checks happening, such as IP trace (known bad actor IP ranges), among other information. It happens in seconds.
As an IT professional, what this situation tells me is that their credential provisioning/deprovisioning process is broken, considering JJ was removed from the school in September and it's now February, and her access was just cut. The access should have been cut upon their exit from the school, but generally, there are periodic access audits to avoid such a thing, especially when it comes to seeing sensitive information about children.
However...this is also a good thing for LE. Each login will have an IP (and a trove of other data) associated with it, even if the pair is smart enough to use a VPN service to hide their true location. In my security days, I used the VPN service IP range to track a ring of fraudsters...it gave me one way to narrow down my field from millions of accounts to thousands...and then in that batch, I found other things that all matched and eventually narrowed my field to around 100. One thing about people - they are creatures of habit and will do things the same way, even if they're trying not to. Something about their habits will come through. In the case of the fraudster ring, the accounts were all set up similarly..same style of name, email, passwords...zebras don't change their stripes.
I don't say any of this to scare anybody, but more to offer insight. LE knows a lot more than they're releasing. They had to have probable cause to get a warrant for electronics, and I suspect their probable cause is coming from data analysis.
All my own opinion, of course.
Do we know this is true?
What if I had a kid, enrolled her in a prestigious music academy in Europe, then a bunch of relatives I was ticked off at and people online watching headlines said I killed them and complained to the police...police in some podunk town in Idaho demand I show the kids. I say "F-Off, I don't need your stinkin government intrusion. You're not the boss of me!"
Then a judge from the same podunk town issues an order based on nothing but hearsay from relatives and me exercising my right to not submit to a search without a warrant and the coincidence that I had a planned move the following day. "F-off again. I like this game. I've got officials working hard to come after me for something I know they will eventually lose. I'll get to watch them all get fired for squandering taxpayer dollars."
Then when they show up with an arrest warrant from another state I tell them kids are in Europe, safe and sound. These Idaho cops and judges are morons! Are you going to let them stomp on my rights? It will cost me $20,000 to bring the kids back and show you because we fly first class. And it will set them back in school. Your honor, Hawaii needs to pay for me to bring the kids to you, first class. Because you have no authority to order me to spend that kind of money for a frivolous Idaho warrant. Judge says "no" or wastes more taxpayer dollars. Judge asks why I made things so difficult. "Because I can." I smile...
Yeah, I know it does not exactly work that way but the point is, the Idaho judge's orders are questionable at best. Someone said that Idaho has jurisdiction if they were last seen in Idaho. But if someone saw them in Montana, say on the 25th of September, jurisdiction gone and we are back to square one. The witness has no obligation to come forward either. But proceedings are shut down as soon as that weak little fact is false. So prosecution wastes thousands of Idaho taxpayer dollars on a futile quest. Lori can stop that but she has no obligation to do so.
And back to SS...there are periodic reviews from what I understand. But they happen after multiple years, not a few months. And given that the Idaho judge's order was made out of ignorance (meaning lack of knowledge, not that he is an idiot) I doubt it is enough to warrant federal fraud charges or denial of an entitlement. If literal physical custody were required then every kid in a residential private school would lead to parental fraud.
Seriously, If I had bodies on my hands, kids or otherwise, I'd be heading somewhere that does not have extradition with the US. There are many beautiful tropical islands they could easily get to that fit that description. I would not be checking into hotels in my own name in a US state.
The more I observe their behavior the more convinced I am that the kids are safe and they are taunting LE. I do think they had something to do with the deaths of their spouses but my theory on that is that they will get away with it because there is no solid evidence to convict. Everything will be pinned on AC acting alone and he can't defend himself.
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Sweet, AWESOME. Do you have any guess of what kinds of data they might be able to pull from Tylee's phone (found on LV in Hawaii) considering it might have been turned off for a few months..
We will never be able to track her every movement for all of 2019. But you have done such an amazing job for July to December that I seriously want to bow to you Gardener! Thank you!
KonaHona. THE HUGE THING ON MY MIND AND PROBABLY OTHERS... Is there anything/anyone/FBI stopping them from flying to a country or island without an extradition treaty with the USA....
I would assume if the kids were not alive, they would've tried to leave already... so at least there might be some hope for the kids being found alive!
Here's what I find odd about all of this. I recently got divorced in Arizona while living in Hawaii. The service was by my ex-wife's attorney contacting me by email and asking if I would waive service. I said "sure" because it was uncontested and I wanted to make things simple. She then said "I'll send you something to be notarized." Now, having things notarized is something else extremely challenging on neighbor islands in Hawaii. There are notaries, but sometime you have to drive 100 miles to hope to get there when they are open. So I said "you'll have to have me served if the alternative is dealing with finding a notary." The lawyer said, ok, we can do it by email if you reply and acknowledge receipt.
The point is, the only reason he would have had to pursue her to accept service like that is if she did not want to get divorced. Maybe she didn't. But after 13 years of marriage and with a special needs kid of his, and with minimal earning power and his high income, if she wanted him out, she would have been way better off agreeing to the divorce and bleeding him financially. Sure, she expected life insurance but she could have negotiated for that in the divorce given their joint adoption of JJ and his age.
None of it makes sense.
We know of someone who cannot be named who works in that field associated closely with Lori not Chad.
securitynerd
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Being turned off may not give location data from the time it was off, but phones attempt to call home when they're turned on. So, let's say it was last used in Rexburg, turned off and now it is in Hawaii. When turned on, it will attempt to call home to the provider. Let's assume it doesn't have service...even then, it will make the attempt and get a denial. On the provider's side, that is entered as an authentication attempt, but it still logs data.
Unless she knows how to really wipe a phone, there's a lot of data that gets left behind in fragments. It might not give the full picture but it gives pieces.
PinkPrincessPoop
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I understand your point. But they are not in Europe. There would be flight records. There would be records at boarding schools. She is not only keeping Tylee and J.J. from family she doesn't like...she's keeping J.J. and Tylee from ALL family, ALL friends. If a picture is taken of the kids on a certain day, can't IT/Cybersecurity confirm it WAS actually taken on THAT day? (Maybe @securitynerd can answer this.) It's not as hard as they are making it out to be. They are running out of excuses. If there were good indicators that the kids are still alive, whether underground or at a boarding school or otherwise, I really don't think LE would be looking so hard into this. I don't think the FBI would be involved.
And regardless of all that, the Ws have filed for custody. That's a whole different ballgame. That is one avenue where they could get in real big trouble if they don't produce those kids if/when the time comes.
Time will tell.
MOO.
That's the regular NCL ship, Pride of America, that makes the same route every week. Guess a group of whackos will be aboard that week. Same as every other week.
Randocalrissian
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I do not know anyone from Tammy’s family circle to be involved in Nature’s Sunshine, nor any other health or lifestyle company, nor MLM of any type.
Yes.
That avenue will be a game changer when the time comes. Once Lori loses custody, then she is open to direct criminal liability and this whole charade ends.
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