"Immature"--well possibly that too, but the little-girl-voice suggested to me that she was psychologically regressing, perhaps cocooning herself in a childhood self where she didn't have to make decisions. That suited the interviewer to begin with, she encouraged it with the childhood reminiscences to create a relationship where she the interviewer took the role of trusted adult. Later the interviewer pressed Sarah--again and again--to look at things from an adult, critical perspective, and Sarah wouldn't/couldn't.
Found Deceased Australia - Karen Ristevski, 47, Melbourne, Vic, 29 June 2016 - #18 *Arrest*
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I think only formal statements. It isn't perjury to lie to police until you sign a declaration that what is printed there is your testimony and is true.
peekinandy
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steve richardson
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Via Marple
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BBM... Agreed. IMO his deceit and lies didn't just waste time and money, but covered up the true circumstances and cause of Karen's death. These might have been very damning, and he might not be able to get away with a 'manslaughter'. (Or as some of you suggested, someone else would not have gotten away)
To assume a lesser crime because the accused had acted to cover up evidence... never makes any sense to me. The opposite should have applied. He should be punished more, whatever additional charge it is called.
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very true there is lots of small points within this case that make you think, espially the delays in finding the body and that was just luck that someone had found it, if those studens had never went searching for ( was it mushrooms/fungus samples or something??)
they may never had found her at least not for many decades, it also makes you wonder how many of the other cases dotting australia is there a body hidden somewhere in the bush a couple of meters from someone's house, if you ask me they should continue with the no body/ no parole system
the 13 years he will have to serve with the 10 years non parole
if anyone buys into the " he's covering for her" theory
its a small price to pay to save your daughter from being an ex con and labeled a murderer just something to think about
his silence on any topic at all even the way it happened has been kinda strange
i know some killers do happen to do this almost as a way to get back at the cops/familyand make their job harder but when you pled guilty why not air what actually happened, he could of said anything like she attacked him after too many wines and he killed her in self defense
so yeah this case is so baffling
at times its up there with some strange ones
steve richardson
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Details of her mother’s death shocked Australia as too did Sarah’s decision not to provide a victim impact statement, instead choosing to write a glowing reference for her father describing him as “loving, caring, sympathetic, protective and charismatic”. Unfortunately the charismatic reference does apply in this situation 'Charisma is the ability to attract, charm, and influence the people around you.'
"Dad was a calming influence. Mum would get annoyed quickly. Dad was always the calm one, calming her down.(always the calm one?Yes manslaughter will result in calming one down.)
Sitting across the room from her father on Tuesday and wearing a white jumper and a grey scarf, Ms Ristevski said she did not find it strange that her father waited an entire day to tell her that her mother was missing (well if someone didn't find the strange there looking in the mirror might locate it). Did SR ever ask where is Mom before he told her she was missing, remembering that she spoke 5 to 6 times a day on the phone with her.
A close knit family SR said. Your mother goes missing and your father waits a day to tell you,that's not a close knit family that's a strange family.
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Ms Ristevski told the court the media "basically stalked" the family after her mother went missing."Thanks for that," she said. Hoped she thanked the media for the $250,000, i am sure that more than ever must have compensated for the pain and suffering one must have endured through months of stalking by the media when trying to expose the details and other information in order to locate and find a missing loving and devoted mother.
It's a pity SR's story doesn't add up as well as the 250k.
"Dad was a calming influence. Mum would get annoyed quickly. Dad was always the calm one, calming her down.(always the calm one?Yes manslaughter will result in calming one down.)
Sitting across the room from her father on Tuesday and wearing a white jumper and a grey scarf, Ms Ristevski said she did not find it strange that her father waited an entire day to tell her that her mother was missing (well if someone didn't find the strange there looking in the mirror might locate it). Did SR ever ask where is Mom before he told her she was missing, remembering that she spoke 5 to 6 times a day on the phone with her.
A close knit family SR said. Your mother goes missing and your father waits a day to tell you,that's not a close knit family that's a strange family.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ms Ristevski told the court the media "basically stalked" the family after her mother went missing."Thanks for that," she said. Hoped she thanked the media for the $250,000, i am sure that more than ever must have compensated for the pain and suffering one must have endured through months of stalking by the media when trying to expose the details and other information in order to locate and find a missing loving and devoted mother.
It's a pity SR's story doesn't add up as well as the 250k.
steve richardson
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Personally I don't think SR had anything to do with the murder but if it had of gone to trial I could see a couple of people getting implicated as accessory's after the fact and guilty plea was entered to save them getting charged as a trial would have produced evidence to support such charges. I regard BR as a self centered narcissistic person who to the end believed he had done nothing wrong and will go to his grave (hopefully soon) thinking exactly the same.
The word narcissism gets tossed around a lot in our selfie-obsessed, celebrity-driven culture, often to describe someone who seems excessively vain or full of themselves. But in psychological terms, narcissism doesn’t mean self-love—at least not of a genuine sort. It’s more accurate to say that people with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) are in love with an idealized, grandiose image of themselves. And they’re in love with this inflated self-image precisely because it allows them to avoid deep feelings of insecurity. But propping up their delusions of grandeur takes a lot of work—and that’s where the dysfunctional attitudes and behaviors come in.
A narcissist’s sense of superiority is like a balloon that gradually loses air without a steady stream of applause and recognition to keep it inflated. The occasional compliment is not enough. Narcissists need constant food for their ego, so they surround themselves with people who are willing to cater to their obsessive craving for affirmation. These relationships are very one-sided. It’s all about what the admirer can do for the narcissist, never the other way around. And if there is ever an interruption or diminishment in the admirer’s attention and praise, the narcissist treats it as a betrayal.(a very apt description in this case)
Narcissistic personality disorder involves a pattern of self-centered, arrogant thinking and behavior, a lack of empathy and consideration for other people, and an excessive need for admiration. Others often describe people with NPD as cocky, manipulative, selfish, patronizing, and demanding. This way of thinking and behaving surfaces in every area of the narcissist’s life: from work and friendships to family and love relationships.
People with narcissistic personality disorder are extremely resistant to changing their behavior, even when it’s causing them problems. Their tendency is to turn the blame on to others. What’s more, they are extremely sensitive and react badly to even the slightest criticisms, disagreements, or perceived slights, which they view as personal attacks. For the people in the narcissist’s life, it’s often easier just to go along with their demands to avoid the coldness and rages.
Narcissists also believe that they’re better than everyone else and expect recognition as such—even when they’ve done nothing to earn it. They will often exaggerate or outright lie about their achievements and talents. And when they (or ones they have manipulated eg SR) talk about work or relationships, all you’ll hear is how much they contribute, how great they are, and how lucky the people in their lives are to have them. They are the undisputed star and everyone else is at best a bit player.
Narcissists never develop the ability to identify with the feelings of others—to put themselves in other people’s shoes. In other words, they lack empathy. In many ways, they view the people in their lives as objects—there to serve their needs. As a consequence, they don’t think twice about taking advantage of others to achieve their own ends. Sometimes this interpersonal exploitation is malicious, but often it is simply oblivious. Narcissists simply don’t think about how their behavior affects others. And if you point it out, they still won’t truly get it. The only thing they understand is their own needs.
Look at the way the narcissist treats others. If the narcissist lies, manipulates, hurts, and disrespects others, he or she will eventually treat you the same way. Don’t fall for the fantasy that you’re different and will be spared.
Take off the rose-colored glasses. It’s important to see the narcissist in your life for who they really are, not who you want them to be. Stop making excuses for bad behavior or minimizing the hurt it’s causing you. Denial will not make it go away. The reality is that narcissists are very resistant to change, so the true question you must ask yourself is whether you can live like this indefinitely.
If you come from a narcissistic family, you may not have a very good sense of what a healthy give-and-take relationship is. The narcissistic pattern of dysfunction may feel comfortable to you.
Ending an abusive relationship is never easy. Ending one with a narcissist can be especially difficult as they can be so charming and charismatic—at least at the start of the relationship or if you threaten to leave. It’s easy to become disoriented by the narcissist’s manipulative behavior, caught up in the need to seek their approval, or even to feel “gaslighted” and doubt your own judgement. If you’re codependent, your desire to be loyal may trump even your need to preserve your safety and sense of self. But it’s important to remember that no one deserves to be bullied, threatened, or verbally and emotionally abused in a relationship. There are ways to escape the narcissist—and the guilt and self-blame—and begin the process of healing.
Don’t make empty threats. It’s a better tactic to accept that the narcissist won’t change and when you’re ready, simply leave. Making threats or pronouncements will only forewarn the narcissist and enable them to make it more difficult for you to get away.
The word narcissism gets tossed around a lot in our selfie-obsessed, celebrity-driven culture, often to describe someone who seems excessively vain or full of themselves. But in psychological terms, narcissism doesn’t mean self-love—at least not of a genuine sort. It’s more accurate to say that people with narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) are in love with an idealized, grandiose image of themselves. And they’re in love with this inflated self-image precisely because it allows them to avoid deep feelings of insecurity. But propping up their delusions of grandeur takes a lot of work—and that’s where the dysfunctional attitudes and behaviors come in.
A narcissist’s sense of superiority is like a balloon that gradually loses air without a steady stream of applause and recognition to keep it inflated. The occasional compliment is not enough. Narcissists need constant food for their ego, so they surround themselves with people who are willing to cater to their obsessive craving for affirmation. These relationships are very one-sided. It’s all about what the admirer can do for the narcissist, never the other way around. And if there is ever an interruption or diminishment in the admirer’s attention and praise, the narcissist treats it as a betrayal.(a very apt description in this case)
Narcissistic personality disorder involves a pattern of self-centered, arrogant thinking and behavior, a lack of empathy and consideration for other people, and an excessive need for admiration. Others often describe people with NPD as cocky, manipulative, selfish, patronizing, and demanding. This way of thinking and behaving surfaces in every area of the narcissist’s life: from work and friendships to family and love relationships.
People with narcissistic personality disorder are extremely resistant to changing their behavior, even when it’s causing them problems. Their tendency is to turn the blame on to others. What’s more, they are extremely sensitive and react badly to even the slightest criticisms, disagreements, or perceived slights, which they view as personal attacks. For the people in the narcissist’s life, it’s often easier just to go along with their demands to avoid the coldness and rages.
Narcissists also believe that they’re better than everyone else and expect recognition as such—even when they’ve done nothing to earn it. They will often exaggerate or outright lie about their achievements and talents. And when they (or ones they have manipulated eg SR) talk about work or relationships, all you’ll hear is how much they contribute, how great they are, and how lucky the people in their lives are to have them. They are the undisputed star and everyone else is at best a bit player.
Narcissists never develop the ability to identify with the feelings of others—to put themselves in other people’s shoes. In other words, they lack empathy. In many ways, they view the people in their lives as objects—there to serve their needs. As a consequence, they don’t think twice about taking advantage of others to achieve their own ends. Sometimes this interpersonal exploitation is malicious, but often it is simply oblivious. Narcissists simply don’t think about how their behavior affects others. And if you point it out, they still won’t truly get it. The only thing they understand is their own needs.
Look at the way the narcissist treats others. If the narcissist lies, manipulates, hurts, and disrespects others, he or she will eventually treat you the same way. Don’t fall for the fantasy that you’re different and will be spared.
Take off the rose-colored glasses. It’s important to see the narcissist in your life for who they really are, not who you want them to be. Stop making excuses for bad behavior or minimizing the hurt it’s causing you. Denial will not make it go away. The reality is that narcissists are very resistant to change, so the true question you must ask yourself is whether you can live like this indefinitely.
If you come from a narcissistic family, you may not have a very good sense of what a healthy give-and-take relationship is. The narcissistic pattern of dysfunction may feel comfortable to you.
Ending an abusive relationship is never easy. Ending one with a narcissist can be especially difficult as they can be so charming and charismatic—at least at the start of the relationship or if you threaten to leave. It’s easy to become disoriented by the narcissist’s manipulative behavior, caught up in the need to seek their approval, or even to feel “gaslighted” and doubt your own judgement. If you’re codependent, your desire to be loyal may trump even your need to preserve your safety and sense of self. But it’s important to remember that no one deserves to be bullied, threatened, or verbally and emotionally abused in a relationship. There are ways to escape the narcissist—and the guilt and self-blame—and begin the process of healing.
Don’t make empty threats. It’s a better tactic to accept that the narcissist won’t change and when you’re ready, simply leave. Making threats or pronouncements will only forewarn the narcissist and enable them to make it more difficult for you to get away.
PrimeSuspect
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@steve richardson Great post and valuable information! It's true, narcissist gets thrown around too much.
A narcissistic injury can send them into a rage, no one leaves them, they leave others. I suspect BR is a stonewaller, so it appeared to Sarah her mum was angry during an argument and dad was calm, when her mum couldn't get through to him, he wouldn't take her seriously, Karen would've felt frustrated, angry and very alone and Sarah thinks dad is such a calming influence, he's the absolute opposite.
jmo
Stonewalling is the refusal to communicate with someone. This means that your spouse refuses to listen to you and your concerns. Stonewalling is one of the most prevalent narcissistic abuse techniques.
A narcissistic injury can send them into a rage, no one leaves them, they leave others. I suspect BR is a stonewaller, so it appeared to Sarah her mum was angry during an argument and dad was calm, when her mum couldn't get through to him, he wouldn't take her seriously, Karen would've felt frustrated, angry and very alone and Sarah thinks dad is such a calming influence, he's the absolute opposite.
jmoStonewalling is the refusal to communicate with someone. This means that your spouse refuses to listen to you and your concerns. Stonewalling is one of the most prevalent narcissistic abuse techniques.
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they'll get you
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I think she WOULDN’T.
Why would she have to give anything to anyone.
She’s full-of-it like her father and keeping up appearances no matter what. She’s not immature she’s rat cunning.
When she was bitching about the cop, the interviewer asked what Borce was doing and she said, ‘oh he was so very worried’. What the?
Imo he’s told her it was a terrible accident, she tripped over Mutley, he gently held her take her last breath, he’s devastated and then panicked because he didn’t want to leave Sarah alone. I had to do it for you Sarah. blah blah.
Remember Aunt Pat said the family was there with candles grieving like they knew Karen was dead? What the?
Of course she doesn’t like the cops but it’s the cops, against all lies from her stinking father, who eventually found her mother wedged in some logs and haphazardly covered with some bracken. What the?
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yep i doubt we find anything more out unless we get a jail house confession
they'll get you
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Not even on his deathbed.
I was intrigued with the high-rise appartment some of the interview took place in.
I doubt a graphic designer’s wage would pay for that. Mummy’s insurance and the filthy media who she hates so much will help her keep up appearances.
Daddy will approve.
Anyway I really don’t want to give IT any more oxygen.
Stay well Steve.
Tinker Taylor
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I'm new to the forum, so apologies if this has been discussed previously.
I have read in MSM that the family was drowning in debt and that KR's business ventures were to blame. BR also had some residual debt from previous business failures. Apparently, her death occurred during an argument over money.
Is it true that just before her death, KR inherited a significant amount from a deceased relative?
I have read in MSM that the family was drowning in debt and that KR's business ventures were to blame. BR also had some residual debt from previous business failures. Apparently, her death occurred during an argument over money.
Is it true that just before her death, KR inherited a significant amount from a deceased relative?
Tinker Taylor
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Answering my own question. Missing Karen Ristevski shared $360,000 inheritance from father before disappearance | Daily Mail Online
Tinker Taylor
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Don't hold your breath!
I wonder if, as part of the investigation, whether the Police did a forensic examination of their finances? It was supposed to have been Karen's business(es) that were failing, but I wonder if it was something else........
Via Marple
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That's why it doesn't feel like Karen has got justice, even though Borce is now in jail.
If I am murdered I would like the whole world to know what my murderer did to me.
Perhaps the businesses were failing because of him and she confronted him about it.
IMO
Tinker Taylor
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Or found out where the money was going!